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Reality posted 1/7/2014 13:12 PM

I updated my profile with the past few days. I... think this may be the end. It feels like he's taking the choice out of my hands.

Morhurt posted 1/7/2014 13:23 PM

I read your profile. I'm so sorry for all the trauma and abuse you have received in your life. It hurts me to read it, I can't imagine how it feels to live it.

I don't have any advice or wisdom I just want you to know that you've been heard.


Reality posted 1/7/2014 13:48 PM

He is so blind to my feelings and to the effects of his behavior that he's angry with me for what happened. He's angry with the kids for bringing up his obvious rage.

I still can't wrap my brain around the threats and accusations while I triggered so hard at him bringing up the physical abuse of my first marriage. That it made him feel feel... inadequate.

I see the words, but I can't make sense of them. None of it makes sense. I'm so shredded and all he feels is angry with me. Even angry with the kids.

sisoon posted 1/7/2014 16:25 PM

Very gently, I offer you a virtual hug that you don't have to take.


Reality posted 1/7/2014 16:48 PM

Thank you, sisoon.

I need my mind to kick back in all the way so I can think. I feel frozen. I don't understand.

I haven't felt that way in so long. How can he be angry with me about this? How could he take that anger out on the kids?

Morhurt posted 1/7/2014 19:22 PM

I think you can't understand because it doesn't make sense. It's senseless. Senseless abuse.
Calling you crazy for being triggered when he talks about the abuse of your xh? Abuse.

He's being an asshole (IMO), I think you and your kids will be so much better off without him. You deserve to be and feel safe. You deserve to be loved.

Dare2Trust posted 1/8/2014 02:50 AM


I sent you a PM.

Reality posted 1/8/2014 06:41 AM

Thank you so much, Dare. I replied.

I also updated the profile with last night.

He's gone. I didn't think it could get worse, but I couldn't reach him.

Reality posted 1/8/2014 06:46 AM

All he can see is that he's angry and I'm "equally to blame" for denying his feelings by questioning his rage.

That I'm overstating my trauma. That I'm taking what he said and drawing conclusions he didn't intend and refuses to acknowledge the effects of.

Thank you, Morhurt, and everyone for your support. Almost three years from the originial D-Day and he's repeating the same phrases.

Althea posted 1/8/2014 07:09 AM

Reality, I'm so sorry you are going through this. Your WH is being abusive. Just because it isn't rape or physical abuse, doesn't make it any less harmful. He used his knowledge of your past rape to traumatize you again, and then played mind games with you when you tried to stop it. Stand from the outside for a moment, because this is extraordinarily cruel and abusive. Don't kick yourself for your children's reactions, you have been hurt enough. But, don't ignore them either. I say this as a child who lived with a father who was very emotionally abusive. I begged my mother for years to leave him, and though she finally did it was after I was an adult and our relationship suffered greatly as a result. Your children are counting on you to protect them. You are a survivor, you can do it.

I'm not saying you WH is a chronic abuser, I don't know the pre-A backstory, but the things you describe are absolutely abuse.

Take care of yourself Reality. Hugs.

Reality posted 1/8/2014 09:02 AM

I see what you're saying, hopeful. One of the major problems we've had is that he becomes completely disconnected from the responses people have when he feels angry.

He will insist he doesn't remember phrases or words he said, though there will be multiple people who witnessed it. Last night, after my parents were there, I would start to explain what happened, then stop to confirm with him I was using the correct word or phrase when he would roll his eyes. My mom finally told me to stop, that he was using minute word choice as a control and weapon. That I was a valid witness and I didn't need to confirm with him.

When I asked him a few times if he felt I was lying, WH said he didn't say that, but then would say that I was saying things that didn't happen, or wasn't describing them accurately, or I was choosing to draw the wrong conclusions from what he said. My dad asked him if he understood that he was saying the same thing, and that I wasn't exaggerating or lying by crying and being upset.

Tesseract couldn't see it. He wouldn't back down.

His lack of emotion outside of visible anger was very painful, and I paced and cried for the last fifteen minutes. My mom pointed to me and told him the feelings I was displaying were real, that I wasn't crafting them, as he insinuated - though he would deny that.

I'm grateful my parents both comforted me and were patient and compassionate with him. I know from previous times, when he was angry like this, there's a good chance he'll see last night as him being ganged up on and treated like a child. That I portrayed him badly and told the facts incorrectly.

His IC has pointed out he has serious anger issues. I hope he has insight for Tesseract that he can hear.

Morhurt posted 1/8/2014 09:15 AM

I'm so glad you called your parents and he's out of the house. Please don't feel guilty about the reaction of your children, they love you and want you safe. They see how he's treating you. That's on him, not you.
Please take a long break before you even consider allowing him back in the house.
((Big hugs))

Reality posted 1/8/2014 09:43 AM

Thank you so much, Mor. I needed that. The responses of the kids keep replaying through my head.

I have had really bad experiences with not being believed about trauma, from the first few years of the SA as a child to the many years of gaslighting and character assassination from my XH. I never want anyone to feel that from me, which is why I explain, and triple check myself, and try to relay information as accurately and deviation free as possible.

WH knows this a major imperative for me in communication. Some people have thought I have eidetic memory because I'm so careful, but I don't - it just means that much to me to be accurate and not spin data.

I think I've taken giving him the benefit of the doubt and taking into account what he says he meant, despite what he actually says too far, and when he tells me I'm wrong, I doubt myself, even when people agree with me about what happened.

I just described the definition of gaslighting, didn't I?

[This message edited by Reality at 9:44 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

sisoon posted 1/8/2014 11:42 AM

I couldn't respond substantively yesterday because I, too, froze when confronted with your abuse. In fact, I felt inadequate because I am unable to help much now and, much worse, totally unable to prevent future abuse. (I imagine that's not what your H means, though.) I'm just not sure how to talk to someone who's suffered such horrors.

Here's what I noticed in this thread. It's form is:

He may end it...He may take the choice away from me...He said these terrible things...I feel awful, frozen, totally out of touch with myself, and I want to unfreeze.

Suppose you had posted in this form instead:

I feel awful, frozen, totally out of touch with myself, and I want to unfreeze. Here's how I got here: he said terrible, horrible things, and I'm afraid he wants to end it.

Maybe starting with yourself would have made you include 'Maybe I want to end it.' After all, you have a choice, too. You can choose D.

Also, and more important, starting your post with where you are and where you want to be - that's putting the focus on you, and that's a good step toward getting back to being yourself.

OTOH, your original post gets to focus on you, and IMO any positive focus on you by you is a step at unfreezing and being yourself, even if it's not done my way.

Peace and love to you, Reality. You deserve both, in large quantities.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:47 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Reality posted 1/8/2014 12:30 PM

You're right, sisoon. I feel like I'm here more and more. Looking back on yesterday, I don't know how functional I was; nothing feels real. How I phrased things gave him too much power.

I can choose, just as you said. I know Tesseract has major abandonment issues; I think that's a big source of why he demands he has to be the primary focus of attention, despite everything else that's going on. As you can read in previous posts, there's a lot of him getting habitually upset if I show emotion, then him insisting I drop everything to recognize and prioritize his emotions. Even though the other feelings in the mix include me and the kids.

I feel for him, I understand where it comes from. But I can't allow him to spread that pain and create trauma for those close to him.

Since he's realized how much of his motivations are anger based, he seems to have become more in touch with that anger, but not in good ways.

I hope he continues with IC. I want the best for him. He has some amazing gifts. I know he's in pain, but I can't help him with this. He has to help himself.

I'm so sorry for the ugliness and that it triggered you, too, sisoon. I can't thank you enough for your sensitivity and kindness.

Return hugs to you and everyone who's sent them our way.

Morhurt posted 1/8/2014 12:47 PM

I just want to add...

Reality, your strength flows out of your posts. You are so strong and capable!

lemony.2008 posted 1/8/2014 13:47 PM


Please focus on taking care of yourself and give yourself plenty of compassion and loving kindness. If you feel up to it, here is a link to a selection of self-compassion meditations that I find helpful, especially during difficult times.

Your WH is an adult, he can choose to be helpful to you and your family, or to fight for himself because he feels he's been treated unjustly. It is best for him not to be there, IMO, when he's making the situation worse. You can't help him grow up and face himself, he has to first want to do it, and then do it himself. You can be supportive, if that happens.

Please don't "debate" with him again, for your sake. It's something I can relate to wholeheartedly because I used to do that and as a result, I neglected myself. He doesn't understand because he does not want to, for a myriad of reasons. IMO, it's not so much a communication problem as a "closed heart", "fixed mind" problem that stems from a lack of empathy. You can be traumatized over and over again and your WH will still refuse to get it and claim it's just another huge misunderstanding. I think he is doing it both consciously and subconsciously since this has been his pattern for so long. In short, you are triggering each other and nothing good nor helpful can come out of it. Give it space.

Deep breaths, and I send you peace and love. You will be okay.

More hugs.

sisoon posted 1/8/2014 14:02 PM

I ask you to pass the following on to Tesseract.

I know about feeling abandoned. It was an issue from my childhood.

The ONLY way to solve the issue is for the person who feels abandoned to make changes in himself. None of us can go back in time and change our history so that we weren't abandoned. And no attention from anyone in the present can fill that hole. Period.

Tesseract, gently, you have to heal yourself on this. IC can help, but you need to do the work yourself. There's really nothing very effective Reality or anyone else can do for you on this.

Reality posted 1/8/2014 14:46 PM

Thank you, sisoon and lemony. I know he's reading from this latest post; thank you for helping.

I see his pain and anger, at how he read me taking off his glasses to see his eyes and holding his shirt - which has helped before when he's shut off, making the physical connection - as attacks. I was unsteady on my feet and fell against him, but he sees that as me pushing him. I was desperate to reach him. I wasn't trying to hurt him. When I realized I was still holding his shirt after we fell, I moved across the room.

I deliberately didn't bring up that awful phone call he mentioned because she's in active danger and I am always concerned my XH will find these forums.

I did look up ticket pricing for him once before this year, and then again that night because I could see how badly things were going, and wanted him to have options, not just shove him out with no place to go.

I'm stopping. I'm explaining again. I can't help with this. I can't buffer it and help him see there's not some mass conspiracy against him.

[This message edited by Reality at 3:01 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Dare2Trust posted 1/8/2014 15:56 PM


I read your WH's long, rambling and somewhat self-serving post --- and:
YES, he does accuse you of physically attacking him.
And YES, he does fail to "explain" how his verbally abusive reference to your "multiple rapes by your ex-husband" highly contributed to your mental and emotional breakdown...causing your to lock yourself into that closet.

But here's the major point - in my opinion:
NOTHING can be resolve by posters, including you:

Going back-and-forth between your posts; and the posts or your WH -"TESSERACT" and trying to make sense out of his extremely long-winded ramblings, and his self-serving posts.
Your husband admits he was filled with anger - but: He fails to discuss that HE brought on this extremely horrifying episode by harassing, taunting, and verbally assaulting you about your PAST: The TRAUMATIC sexual rapes by your ex-husband...and how these rapes "made him feel inadequate when you asked for physical affection."

Your husband is a grown, intelligent man; who is attending law school on your dime; And, he should be totally aware that this type of behavior is unacceptable on every level!

It's an absolute shame that your children are being dragged through this emotional nightmare. Children should not witness their Mother being tormented by their Father/Step-father.

It's also a shame that your parents are being put into the position to house/babysit a grown man who is terrorizing their daughter and grand-children.

It may be time for your WH to live on his his own way through law school...and try to GROW UP. Then, once he gets his out-of-control anger under control with some great "Anger Management Counseling"...And once he perhaps learns a little about: Empathy, Respect, Compassion; and how to START being a caring and loving husband and father:
---YOU can decide if you want him back living in your home, or not.

But, in my opinion: It's not your parents' or his Mother's responsibility to house/babysit him. He's grown: He needs to take care of himself!

But only you can decide when ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
It's your choice.

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