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Trust. Help me please.

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Elasticman posted 1/13/2014 08:16 AM

DDay was 6 weeks ago. I have no contact with the other person. I have completed my timeline accurately. I have started MC and my individual counselling is shortly to start. I love her and will do literally anything she asks me to if it will help her. She does not know what can possibly help. We have moments of real closeness followed by rage.

She said I was possibly the best and most proactive cheating husband in trying to sort things out. I know we both love each other. This is the problem. She says to me I'd love to be able to trust you but I don't know how that could ever happen.

I say you cannot trust me now, nor do you need to. Other people have rebuilt trust, I will work harder than them to earn your trust again. I also think that I am not the right person to convince her that future trust is possible, because she doesn't trust me. She also says that I was nice when I was lying so being nice and being more open offers no guarantee. I feel that it is so early to talk about trust.
Surely that is way down the line. I'm scared that we wont even make it to the starting line.

Has anyone else encountered this?

A question to BS. If you have been so hurt that you do not trust someone at all, why at an early stage would you even hope that you could trust them?

I do not expect my BS to say "ill probably trust him a little bit in a year, or 2 or 5". How do I even begin?

DanteJace posted 1/13/2014 08:44 AM

A question to BS. If you have been so hurt that you do not trust someone at all, why at an early stage would you even hope that you could trust them?

Excellent question. I'm honestly interested in everyone else's answers.

But note this thread is notated with a "stop sign" meaning betrayed spouses are not allowed to reply. You might want to ask the admin to remove that, if you'd like betrayed spouses to respond in this thread.

Elasticman posted 1/13/2014 14:45 PM

How do I remove the stop sign? I would appreciate the input of a BS. Thanks

metamorphisis posted 1/13/2014 14:57 PM

Before you submit a post, you have to manually "uncheck" the box to remove the Stop Sign. I can take it off this time. BS's please note this thread is now open to BS replies.

SisterMilkshake posted 1/13/2014 15:07 PM

I will never blindly trust my FWH again. I use to until he abused that trust by having a LTA.

To reconcile does take a leap of faith. Rebuilding trust takes a long time. I don't feel there is a timeline that anyone can state with any absolutes.

The only thing that you can do is be consistent in your actions, be totally transparent, be proactive with telling her of any thing that comes up that might be "iffy" (an overly friendly co-worker, etc. ).

Yes, it is too early to talk of trust. But, I am glad you are being so proactive.

nowiknow23 posted 1/13/2014 15:10 PM

If you have been so hurt that you do not trust someone at all, why at an early stage would you even hope that you could trust them?

Because you love them.
Because you've built a life with them.
Because you want yourself and your family to recover.
Because you believe they are capable of change.
Because you believe they WANT to change.

cdnmommy posted 1/13/2014 15:31 PM

I can't answer for all betrayed spouses, but in my case I hoped I could trust him again because I had years of history with him before the A that led me to believe he was worth taking a risk on.

Does it mean I will ever blindly trust him again? No. I agree with SisterMilkshake on that. But I don't place a lot of value on blind trust anymore.

Trust is rebuilt in increments. At first, I trusted nothing about him. Then, I trusted him to put in effort to reconciliation. Then, I trusted him to be where he said he was. Then I trusted him to consider my feelings. And so on. And so on.

At over 3 years into R, I still don't totally trust him. I do about 90%, though. While that may not be as good as 99%, it is still a great deal more than I trust many people. Maybe most importantly, I trust myself and my judgement a helluva lot more than I ever did before.

Keep it up. My FWH made a lot of errors at the start of our R, but he kept working on himself and making the changes that encouraged me to keep trying on my side. Where do you begin? By being understanding. By saying "I know you can't trust me right now, and I don't blame you, so don't feel bad about it. I am just going to keep being trustworthy." And then do it!

Arnold01 posted 1/13/2014 20:40 PM

Like cdnmommy, I chose to believe that trust was possible because of our history and that fact that prior to the A, my husband (as far as I knew) was always a very honest and loyal person. I also chose to start working on trust because if I didn't, then I would always be wondering whether I'd given up without giving my H and our marriage a fair chance.

And like cdnmommy, my husband made a lot of mistakes at the start of our R. But he did enough things right to give me hope, and then trust was built in increments. We are more than 7 months from D-Day, and I am much more able to trust him that I was just a few months ago.

The caution, however, is that this process is not linear. Even though I would say that my husband is gaining back my trust very effectively, I've just had a terrible week where I have been suspicious about everything and too many tears from imagining how after everything we've been through, he might secretly be in contact with MOW.

The reality is that while my fears and tears are about my trust of him at one level, I think they are really about me. To rebuild the marriage requires me to be vulnerable. To open myself up to another person with no guarantees that he won't hurt me again. I don't think he will...but we all know there are no guarantees. And now that I know what the pain of betrayal feels like, I am terrified to be vulnerable. That's my own issue as much as it is about him or his A. So be patient with your spouse as not only does trust take time to build, but there are ups and downs in the road even if you do everything right.

isadora posted 1/13/2014 20:48 PM

Time and consistent actions. Do the work. Show her you can change. Show her her you are finding better coping mechanisms. Fix you.

WH did some of the work and he did re-earn some of the trust (He did a lot of damage with the lying and the TT). We got to a better place. He wanted more trust and I was willing to give it because he was earning. But because he stopped doing the work, started doing a some subtle blameshifting when working out his why, doing a little re-write when we were talking about our past issues, I knew he was on the slope again and well he slipped. I wasn't surprised and that makes a little sad.

You are only six weeks out. Stay calm. Don't get too far ahead. The trust will never return 100% and that is ok. Really it is. Focus fixing the broken part of you and don't worry so much about if your BS can trust you completely again. Unfortunately it is a consequence to your actions. Hang in there.

MegM posted 1/13/2014 20:53 PM

She also says that I was nice when I was lying so being nice and being more open offers no guarantee. I feel that it is so early to talk about trust.
Surely that is way down the line. I'm scared that we wont even make it to the starting line.

I am posting with my betrayed spouse hat in response to your thread. (I was unfaithful to my husband 10 years ago so am also a WS).

My husband was also generally very 'nice' while he was active in his affair. Retrospectively I can see subtle changes and signs of his detachment. But while he was in 'it' I was completely blindsided.

He lied without a hitch. I could not spot any of his evasions or lies until they hit me right in the face.

This has caused an enormous hurdle in our healing. Especially in the early months.

I still two years out do not trust him. I don't know if I will ever 'trust' anyone in that sense again. Now I hear what someone says. Accept the information. Verify but looking at actions and other indicators, and once verified I move on.

Trust does not mean the same thing to me anymore.

For me the test of health on a day to day basis in our relationship has become connectedness. Some days we are less than others. I look behind that and see wether it is my state of mind or his that might be contributing to that and then we talk about it.

I still randomly check my H's emails, text messages, phone histories. He never knows one day to the next if I will check.

I have accepted that no amount of checking will keep him honest and faithful. I do it as a way to check the health of our relationship and the reliability of his communication overall.

If I discovered he is unfaithful in future. I will have a choice in front of me. he will have taken all rights his has to be a part of that choice away.

It probably is too early to expect trust in your situation. In my case - trust in the sense we understood it in the past - will never be a part of our relationship again.

ETA: I don't know how to express this to you - but your wife coming to terms with wether she can live with that is her journey. Your behaviour, actions and words need to be true to your own integrity so you can again trust yourself.

best wishes to you and you dear wife.


[This message edited by MegM at 8:57 PM, January 13th (Monday)]

SoVerySadNow posted 1/13/2014 21:07 PM

This from Sistermilkshake:

I will never blindly trust my FWH again

And this from Arnold01:
this process is not linear

Sum up how I feel in my case.
My WH has simply done too much damage over too long a period of time to regain my trust in any foreseeable future.
It would have been different if he had not done the above, plus extensive Gaslighting, TT, and the recent lie (six weeks ago now)-I believe that eventually trust could have been rebuilt.
However, I know in our case now that it is a slim-to-none possibility. Simply too much deceit from him.

My advice, FWIW, is to never TT, or lie to your spouse again (and I'm not saying you are, it's general advice) and hope that you aren't too far out for trust to return.
The closeness followed by the rage thing? It's part of that roller coaster ride your spouse is on. At least she's saying that she'd love to be able to trust you again. That's hopeful.
Peace to us all.

astudentoflife posted 1/13/2014 22:02 PM

I think you may be after someone who can say "Yes, if you do x, y and z, your wife will love and trust you fully again. Your affair will be erased."

I am sorry, because I know your pain and fear, that is impossible to say for anyone on here. You sound as if you do understand the full damage your affair has caused. Well, honestly at 6 weeks out, I doubt that, more will come to you as time goes on. 2-5 years with both working hard and honestly to R fully, and that may not mean that full, innocent trust is ever restored. 6 weeks is nothing I am sorry to say. The wounds are so fresh and painful.

You sound as if you are doing the right things. I wonder though if you will be able to keep this up for 2-5 years of roller coaster rides of highs and very lows. If you didn't communicate with your wife, harbored resentments and entitlements, what will prevent that from happening again if you don't feel your "needs" are being met and have a fit of anger which leads to cheating again. I am not trying to condemn you, I am actually leading into another important improvement that you can make that WILL definately help you towards your goal.

I hear a lot of I am proactive and willing to help her in anyway. Take that attitude and put it into finding out your "why and how" Find the root of your entitlement and thinking that allowed you to have an affair. Fix it. Talk about it with councilors and your wife, if she wants to at a later time. Start to live it, regardless of the outcome. That will begin to show her that you can be trusted or at least a beginning of trust. Your wife's marriage was destroyed. If she stays with you, being a human being I don't believe she will want to harbor these feelings of mistrust into the future if she decides to stay with you. She also needs to know the answer "why" it is probably the most important question she has at the moment.

Of course I am not a BS and I don't understand there pain, because I haven't been there. I believe trust can be rebuilt, if not completely fully. I am willing to accept that of my wife in the future. That is the damage that an affair causes.

Put in as much work on your healing as you do hers , if not even a little more. Find the "why and how". I believe you will come to the conclusions that many of us have had and this question will not be so scary for you.

ILINIA posted 1/13/2014 22:51 PM

I can tell you at 6 weeks I felt trapped as a BS. I felt like I only had two choices(which I later learned that some of the SI members call it a sh*t sandwich):

1) Separate/Divorce - This would mean trying to figure out custody arrangements for our kids, introducing a second home, possibly selling our home, moving the kids to a different school district, talking with lawyers, and explaining to family and friends what was happening. I could barely make it through the day much less try and tackle any of the above.

2) Just hang with the one who betrayed me. I took the path of "no decision is a decision". Nothing "external" had to change. No one had to know. I could take time to figure out what needed to change "internally" in our marriage and with one another. I didn't trust him, but compared to choice #1 it was the only option that seemed viable in my physical, mental, and emotional state. It was easier just stay in the boat to see where it was heading. I was HOPING that wherever it went it HAD to be better than where I was now.

As time is passing, it is evolving more into what the others said above, but I know that isn't where I started.

Be patient with her, she is still trying to make sense of something that will never make sense.

standinghere posted 1/14/2014 05:15 AM

Trust is a gift the first time, a gift that is given in hope that the other person will never betray it. But, after betrayal, it is a real task to earn, over years, and years, through trials and tribulations of life.

The whole thing is sort of paradoxical to me, weird feeling.

I trust my wife. But, I know that she betrayed me.

I will always know that. It cannot be undone.

I would never have expected this, divorce yes, but an affair no.

Only time will tell. I have no control over it, no matter how good a husband I am, it is only she who can keep it from happening, and yet she did it before...

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