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[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:20 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

I don't think I can be of any help but your post was just so moving and difficult I wanted to post. My H has never been abusive but my previous boyfriend was and the things you said just sounded so familiar, even now I almost typed "my boyfriend didn't hit me as much as your H" wth?? I was hit, I shouldn't minimize what he did, it was scary, it hurt, it was completely wrong and here I am 20 years later almost implying that my abusive boyfriend wasn't that bad....

I don't know if an abusive person can change once it comes out. I know my bf tried very hard to control it, he was successful the majority of the time but it kind of didn't matter, b/c once it happened that fear was always there, it never when away. Even today with other men if they raise their voice or get that tense look I get scared I've been trained for the rest of my life to watch for the clues.

I will say I don't think anything you've ever done would justify being hit. Even my H, he did some pretty bad things but if I had hit him I would have been wrong, imo. It sounds like your H is trying to justify his violence to you and that you might be unsure about that, I think he's wrong if he tries to do that. I also think the fact that he won't address it is concerning b/c if he isn't willing to look at it and acknowledge it and fix it, I don't see how it can change?? As i said my ex was pretty good at controlling his rage, except when he wasn't. He never did anything to fix it he just tried to keep it under control, which it sounds like thats what your H is trying to do. That will do nothing to ease your fear and your complete lack of safety, b/c you never know when he won't be able to control it so you'll be on eggshells for the rest of your life.

Personally I think a separation with time to completely focus on yourself would be ideal. You have a lot of pain and fear and unresolved feelings and there is no way, absolutely no way you can sort through that if you're wondering what's going on with him, can you talk to that person or not that person, are you upsetting him, are you not doing what he needs, are you the bad person he's telling you you are??? It's so much drama that is completely revolving around him, there is not a moment for you to take care of yourself and that isn't right. I think you need a break personally, you deserve time to heal yourself and even if he says it, his actions show he doesn't really want to have that time.

((hugs))

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:20 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

Personally, you need to separate until he gets his anger under control. Situations, like this is not good for either of you.

If his reaction to the pain you caused is to hurt you then there is something broken in him. I can understand him making a threat at DDay, like I did but to actually to start knocking you around like that is not good or healthy.

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:21 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

Violence toward women is something I really detest. It is a sign of horrible character flaws, and a fucked up person.

I was raised to know that a man never, under any circumstances raises his hand to a woman. Never once questioned it.

I was a police officer for 25 years, so I saw plenty of it. Put plenty of guys in jail. Told them all the same things. If its so bad you want to hit her, leave her, it will hurt worse. No reason to hit women. I also believe women should not tolerate it, even once. The man should be held accountable, jailed, and kicked out every time. To fail to do so only reinforces the behavior. It will be worse for you, or the next woman.

Surprisingly, my wife has said that recently during a couple of arguments she has actually flinched when I'd yell at her. (thru our marriage I've probably raised my voice a dozen times PRIOR to this affair stuff.) Since? I've actually yelled, several times, very out of character.

At any rate, hitting her has never even crossed my mind, in spite of the affair. Its off the table, and should be in all relationships. Solves nothing, worsens everything.

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:21 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

After I threaten my WW at DDay, I am going to anger management and IC.

He should do the same. He is really raging when he hits you. You may have good days but one outburst of rage and that could be the end of your life and his.

Nothing wrong separating and going to anger management as a couple and individual. His coping with your infidelity is damaging both of you.

Pent up anger and frustration and explosion. Also, if you are going to TT him, you should do it in MC, in the presence of a third party so you are safe.

I am so sorry for the situation you are in. I am sorry for the hurt both of you have felt and continue to feel.

I certainly am not in any situation to give advice, but I would like to mirror what your initial post "said" to me:

To paraphrase, I "heard" you saying:

"My husband and I love each other, and besides my suicide attempts, him being apathetic at times, physically attacking me at other times, sabatoging my friendships, refusing to discuss anything other than HIS infidelity, a refusal to seek IC, and my feeling that he may be either sociopathic or narcissistic - everything is good."

Something needs to happen. It seems to me that SAFETY is the #1 priority - even above honesty at this point.

BIG HUGS coming your way!

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 8:41 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

his anger shows he does still care.

His anger shows that he is angry.

As in "he's angry because he loves me"? I really got the same message as Whatsright did from your posts.

He's angry because of the hurt/fear/rejection or whatever it is that he feels you have inflicted on him. And this is how he is responding to the hurt. He is acting out on his anger. He is not acting out in love or care.

I wouldn't get into the habit of mixing the two.

That's how you will continue to accept this unhealthy cycle you both have created. Caring looks like caring. Caring comes from love. Anger looks like anger. Anger comes from fear. The two really do not coexist except in dysfunctional mindsets. He may care about you, in his way, but care are not expressed as anger and physical harm.

Apathy is also a form of anger. Apathy can be a far more useful tool to "even the score" for the hurts you inflicted on him. Apathy can hurt more than anger on the emotional scale of injury. Self harm is another expression of anger, something you both have engaged in.

It sounds like both of you do things in your own way to settle the score with the other. This score can never be settled. Arguments to be right, whose pain is greater, the desire to make the other feel the pain to prove the point, apathy, self harm, emotional distance...etc...only adds to the total.

I agree that until you both learn how to feel and accept your own pain without lashing out the other, whether with violence or emotional manipulation or self harming. At some point you both will have to feel the hurt and accept it, in order to heal from it. Since you both seem unable to control your reactions to the hurt, a physical separation sounds like safest, healthiest option at the moment.

I hope you can find the clarity and strength to do what you know is healthy.

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:22 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

Sorry - 3 things stick out in your story: physical abuse, threat of physical abuse, and other emotional abuse.

I don't care what you did. You are entitled to protect yourself from being abused - but the only way to protect yourself is for you to take the necessary actions.

You can't really take in help from yourself or from outsiders if you stay in an abusive environment.

Leave or kick him out, if that's possible.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:20 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:22 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

What bothers me as much as his physical abuse is his wanting you to never discuss his faults or prior infidelity with another person. That is toxic. If you read up on abuse at all one of the main things is isolating you from others. His picking flaws in everyone proves he is trying to isolate you. Please get out. These behaviors can escalate to your disability or death.

It was a pretty terrible cycle there for a while until I got it all out.

You are very much still caught up in a cycle. Your just on a different area of the wheel. You have become an integral part of this cycle. It's no longer about what happened when and who did what. You have become enmeshed.

If you don't leave, the next pay check will end up like the last...so you will wait till the next and the next and there you will remain. You know this.

The only way to break a cycle is to get off the wheel.

It's time to look for some resources in your area to help speed up this process. Even if it means a temporary stay in a shelter for women. A friend, a boarding house, someone who is renting a room?

The abuse has to end first. The healthy can't start until that happens.

Peace, health and strength to you

MM I hit my husband a few times after D-Day. Each time I was horrified and sorry, but it wasn't until I completely lost my shit on him on a street in downtown Atlanta that I sought professional help. What I did was WRONG. I am a foot shorter and significantly smaller than my H. I left a mark on him once, when I pinched him hard. Even though what I did did not injure him seriously, it was horribly wrong. Your H is beating the CRAP out of you and then blaming YOU for it. That to me does not sound like someone who is in any way inclined to stop. I think he enjoys it and has found a way to completely justify it to himself. I knew that wasn't who I wanted to be. It sounds like he has no internal conflict.

Setting the physical abuse aside, he also sounds emotionally manipulative and cruel. I know you say you love him, and I understand that, but you can love someone and still leave them because their behavior is unacceptable. If your best friend (assuming he let you HAVE a best friend) told you her H was doing this, would you find it acceptable?

((Hugs)) to you, I know this is hard. Your post honestly scared me. You are NOT safe.

Oh Madness Muse I am so concerned for you. You are in an abusive and dangerous relationship. Please seek help before you are permanently maimed.There is plenty of advice and help out there for you.Please read this brilliant website on domestic abuse

http://www.abuseandrelationships.org/index.html

If you were living in the UK any one of theses actions your husband has taken against you he would be arrested and charged.

It takes a huge amount of courage to come to terms with the fact you are living in an abusive relationship, especially if you love each other. I know, I have been there.Please please protect yourself.

Madness Muse this is the UK official definition of domestic violence.

The Government /Women’s aid and other charities and organizations on domestic abuse.

defines domestic violence as "Any incident of threatening behavior, violence or abuse …..

Any Force during an Argument

Abusers often begin by clenching their fists and mimicking punches. They may hold onto their partner to prevent her from leaving a room or walking away from a tirade. Physical abuse can be anything from cornering the victim and holding her back so she can't move, even restraint, such as if he crowds you against a wall

Threats: making angry gestures, using physical size to intimidate, shouting you down, destroying possessions, throw things, breaking things, punching walls…

Physical violence: Grabbing, , pushing, shoving,

Shouting/mocking/accusing/name calling/verbally threatening.

Breaking trust: lying to you, having other relationships, In many instances, betrayal through infidelity can be very close to what we term domestic violence. Infidelity is a choice and that choice is abusive in nature.

Denial: saying the abuse doesn't happen, saying you caused the abusive behavior, being publicly gentle and patient, crying and begging for forgiveness, saying it will never happen again. Abusive actions are frequently followed by expressed remorse, apologies and promises.

BIG warning sign! An abuser may physically restrain you from leaving the room, lash out at you with his/her hand or another object, pin you against a wall or shout 'right in your face'. Basically any form of force used during an argument can be a sign that serious physical violence is a strong possibility.

The abuser will deny feelings stem from within him but see them as reactions to your behavior or attitude toward him. He may tell you that 'you make me mad', 'you're hurting me by not doing what I ask', or that he cannot help feeling mad, upset, etc. Feelings may be used to manipulate you, i.e. 'I would not be angry if you didn't .Consequently, you are also to blame for any negative feelings such as anger, upset.

He may keep you up all night to 'sort this out once and for all'

Beating items of furniture or throwing objects will often be justified by saying you wound him up so much they lost control, once again shifting the blame for this behavior on to you, but is actually used to terrorize you into submission. Only very immature or abusive people beat on objects in the presence of other people in order to threaten or intimidate them.

Very rarely do abusers conform to the stereotypical image of a constantly harsh, nasty or violent person, either in public or in private. More frequently the abuser portrays a perfectly normal and pleasant picture to the outside world (often they have responsible jobs or are respected and important members of the local community or Church) and reserves the abuse for you in the privacy of your own home. Nor are abusers always overtly abusive or cruel, but can display apparent kindness and consideration. This Jeckyll and Hyde tendency of the abuser serves to further confuse the victim, while protecting themselves from any form of suspicion from outsiders.

[This message edited by MadnessMuse at 9:22 PM, April 18th (Friday)]

That tells me he doesn't actually want me gone;

He wants you to stay so he can continue to abuse you instead of working on his own issues.

Gently, the more you post, the more worried about you I get. You have to hide your STD tests, when he's the one who cheated? You're living with his parents, probably the people who taught him how to be an abuser? Don't you see how crazy it is?

Leaving today would be a great action to take. Tomorrow, if not today.