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daphne345 posted 1/14/2014 16:54 PM

2 years plus since Dday. Triggers are not as frequent but yesterday's trigger led me to remember the chat with OW I read from the beginning of the A. "I'm new to this infidelity thing. How does it work?". So coy, so not funny. How can I just forget he behaved so completely out of character or at least so differently from the man I thought I knew. Joking with her about the A, not even pretending he felt bad about what he was doing. Now he's Mr. Wonderful, all concerned and attentive. I know this line of thought just makes me crazy but it seems stupid to just pretend that is not the reality. That he is capable of anything. Like a lot of you, I was totally shocked he would ever do something like have an A, much less keep one going almost a year. Lying daily all that time. If I put it out of my mind, I can carry on with daily life. But sometimes I just can't help but remember that he could flip back to that liar at any time. This is still so hard. Sometimes I wonder what if I would have stayed if we didn't have little kids.

Razor posted 1/14/2014 17:16 PM

I dont think you can buy that. And I dont think you should. You have now seen a part of him that he kept hid from you. Its probably been there the hole time.

Im not saying once a cheater allways a cheater. Not at all. Im saying that IMO once a person shows you they will cheat that its possible they will do it again. Possible but not probable.

Allot of folks here will disagree with me. And its likely they are right to do so. My opinion tho is that people dont change BUT BEHAVIORS CAN CHANGE.

IMO what you are seeing in your WH is a change in his behavior. IF he maintains these changes. And they cant go on autopilot. He will have to be vigilant and work at maintaining these new habits and behaviors. If he does that then he wont cheat again.

But if what he is doing is *damage control* in his mind and as soon as he thinks your placated he backs off and resumes his old ways. Then its likely he will cheat again IMO.

cl131716 posted 1/14/2014 17:51 PM

"I'm new to this infidelity thing. How does it work?".

Actions and behaviors. Like you said, he has already shown he is capable.

SoVerySadNow posted 1/14/2014 17:56 PM

How casual he sounded in that! Grrr.
As if he was learning something legit.

Patagonia posted 1/14/2014 18:01 PM

I agree, people don't change but behaviors do. Is very hard, but it is possible. What's been done can't be undone, and R means to me, more than forgiving, just learning to live with this dissapointment, this pain that comes and goes in waves.
One thing that has helped me find compassion (instead of anger) is to look at what he did and the reasons he did it: He felt so, so bad about himself that he put his value as a man by cheating, lying and hiding from the very people that truly loved him. he can't ever say he has no regrets, that he lived his life with integrity and honesty, that will never be possible. Now if he learns from it and changes and helps me truly recover, and he never, ever does anything like that again, then that also has much value. WE all make mistakes, some people make really bad mistakes, not all mistakes are truly forgivable, but if we can learn from them and become better people, I am willing to stay and help. Now, I also know I won't stay another round. This is it so he better make it work.

Dreamland posted 1/14/2014 22:08 PM

OMG .... Daughne...,
I was having a major trigger because two years ago he was texting her all night while I was out of town. They were both "giggling"about how this all works. It's like he forgot he had a wife which was impossible considering I was texting him while shopping at an HM store. We didn't have one in our town.
And well apparently she has told him later she was tired of always being the OW. He didn't even ask her if this was her MO. So how can he now be so sorry so " how could I hurt you". Honestly it's only because he got caught.

Anyway I'm out of town again so I am trying so hard not read the shit he wrote.
Yes I still have it. And I hate him because I wonder everyday if he is still feeding me bullshit. Telling me what I want to hear... Why who the fuck knows.
Ugh I hate traveling. And he of course says nothing or doesn't even try to tell me "hey I know this is hard". He just tells me where he is I'm driving home I'm at the store
It's not like I can check his wear abouts 24/7. I'm tired.

sisoon posted 1/15/2014 09:25 AM

Triggers come around all the time, and cheating IS part of our real WSes.

I write about one way to view what you've reported. It's only one way. If it doesn't fit for you, so be it, but keep digging. Triggers and doubts need to be resolved; otherwise they eat away at you.

Triggering today over something that happened over 2 years ago says to me 2 things: first, and most important, I still have pain in the here and now related to this event, and 2nd, the event's in the past - what's my W doing now?

Resolving the here and now pain is very important to my mental health. I might write about it, vent on SI, talk with my W, scream, cry...all sorts of things like that have helped me in the past.

Noticing that the behavior was in the past and that my W isn't acting that way any more is important to healing our relationship. I'm 3 years out, and I'm just starting to consider accepting that my W really has changed - you know, 2-5 years....

Because our MC is my W's IC, I know my W has been dealing with her basic issues since D-Day. I know her C won't let her hide or dodge issues. My W's behavior has changed. So I've got evidence that allows me to think he cheating is in the past.

The question is: How has your H changed? If he hasn't changed, that could be why you're nervous. Maybe IC for him (with a goal of moving from 'cheater' to 'good partner') would help. If he balks at IC, maybe MC would help.

But maybe your doubt is just the doubt like I felt when we were only(!) a little over 2 years out.

Althea posted 1/15/2014 10:04 AM

Man, can I relate to this! The things WS's do are so despicable. I've posted similar questions, e.g. how do you reconcile this person you have now with the one who cheated on you? For me, it has been waiting and watching. I saw the hard digging he did to uncover the truths behind his brokenness. Then I made a conscious decision to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Here is my logic. Yes, I have no guarantee that this new him is the real him, but thanks to his A, I will never believe that of anyone. So, why not take a chance on the father of my children? He is showing me now that he is trustworthy. He is open and communicative and caring for our marriage. I told him when I agreed to R that I wouldn't do it for anything less than the marriage of my dreams, and he is doing everything he can do give it to me. So, I am staying; and choosing to trust that he is safe to love.

Catlover posted something the other day that said something long the lines of if her H cheat again, he won't have the excuse of his brokenness anymore; and she will leave. I'm not phrasing that nearly as eloquently as she did; but I have a 4 month old beside me I feel the same way. He has uncovered his brokenness and is leading a far more authentic life than he ever has. He is the happiest I have ever known him to be. He is facing demons and understands the full implications of his negative behavior. If he cheats again, my decision to leave will be VERY easy. I won't be one of those who has to question whether he will really get it THIS time. I know he gets it, and if he cheats again it means he is someone I do not want in my life. I take a lot of solace in this.

This is a very roundabout way of saying, look at why you are afraid to trust that this is the real him. Is he doing everything you need him to? Has he uncovered how he could be so callous, selfish, broken? If he hasn't, I think your gut is telling you it isn't safe, with good reason. If you believe he has, then it may be as simple as needing to take a leap of faith. God knows that it easier said than done.

myeverafter posted 1/15/2014 10:31 AM

Lying daily all that time.

For me, it is now like this: For the past 3 years, I was told the sky is purple and I believed it. Now I have to believe that the sky is blue. And it is hard...

But if what he is doing is *damage control* in his mind and as soon as he thinks your placated he backs off and resumes his old ways

That is what our MC said yesterday. If he resorts back to his old ways, it isn't good. Right now, his head has been firmly pulled out of his ass.

I am having a hard time knowing who he really is. I don't know if I ever knew him, really. But never knew that I didn't know. (If that makes sense.)

I just don't know how to judge now if I know him or not. Or if he is just still showing me only what he wants me to see.

Part of me keeps trying to tell or convince myself, if he he does flip back that I can do it on my own. I am a strong person.

daphne345 posted 1/15/2014 17:37 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Dreamland- I feel your pain reading texts. I found the ENTIRE filthy string of IM chats for literally all 10 months of the PA. He deleted it all when he found out but before that I read every word. It took me 7 hours to read it all. When I found it, I took my kids to a friend, lied to her about why I needed her to watch them, and went home and read it all with a bottle of wine. Crazy I know. Lots of sex talk. No talk of remorse and she was married too. She came to my house while I was at work one day to have sex with him there. What the Hell is wrong with these idiots? Ever heard of a hotel? But they did that on purpose for the thrill. She said "oooh she"ll scratch my eyes out lol". Really a winner wasn't she? So kind and SPECIAL. Barf.

Hard to forget the worst of it all. He acts totally different now. Just so hard to think one person can behave in two so very very different ways.
Thanks for all your comments, u too WS. I think you got it. Hope my WS does too.

struggling16 posted 1/15/2014 19:07 PM

In my case I don't buy it because although he is "walking the walk" (and has for 3 years) he hasn't gone to counseling to get to the real "whys". I still don't think I have the whole truth about his choices prior to the A. He has given me superficial answers that he got out of the books we read together. He has never looked for information from any other sources-and this is a man who spends all day on-line. I think he's a coward and too afraid to face himself.

If he gives any indication that he's relapsed to his porn addiction, lying and cheating I'm gone with no regrets. Most of the time I'm fine but in my darkest moments I think that this is no way to live my life.