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Ok I am still very naive and shell shocked at this point so forgive me if these questions are silly.

So I need to have no contact with my WS. He has moved out but calls when he wants to. Comes to the house when he wants without notice. Doesn't this defeat the purpose?
He has come nowhere close to meeting my boundaries; ie MC, NC, transparency.
Question #1 I am going to cut contact with him, but I have heard different was of doing this. NC with WS(don't tell him, just do it) this way seems it will not quite get the point across. Or I explain

I want to be in a committed and open relationship.
Just so there is no confusion about what my minimum boundaries are;
When you are in contact with her I feel like there is no possible way to create a new and better marriage for us. I would like that there be no contact with her, and a clear plan of exit for you or her from the workplace.
When there is no transparency I feel unsure. I would like you to provide emails, passwords, cell phone bill, cc bills, etc to help healing and build trust.
As you have not yet made an apt for individual counseling and will not go to marriage counseling until that point I feel that fixing our relationship is not a priority or what you really want
I have expressed these concerns before and have not seen change in regards to any of these requests.
I feel like I need some time to really evaluate if I want to continue this relationship. I think it would be a good idea to not be in contact for a few days.

Please give feedback, input, edits. Thanks

Question #2
I wanted to keep the circle small as far as who we told.
I know his patents and best friend knows. Obviously OW and I know her sister knows. I think he is delusional thinking no one else at work knows. My question is do I tell his partners? I would want to do it anonymously if that would even be possible. Just wondering what you all think of that.

Question #3
Is it just crazy lady of me to hide a gps in his car and verify his whereabouts? Is that the exact opposite of what I need to be learning from the 180?

Thanks in advance

open relationship

Are you meaning that you want to be in a relationship with out secrets or are you meaning to be in relationship with the rights to see others? As "open relationship" can denote either.

Honestly I am sensing that you are a bit scared or unsure of the needed boundaries based on the language. There is a lot of "I'd like . . . " instead of "I require . . . " or "I demand . . ." or "You must . . .".

"I'd like" sounds like it is negotiable and not minimum boundaries. So right now I think that you do need some time to become resolute in your direction and requirements. Until then you might come off as wishy-washy and that will allow him to sit on the fence.

As for #2, why do you want his partners to know? To expedite his departure?

As for #3, I think it is a toss up if you should or shouldn't do that.

1. I prefer the telling over not telling unless you are just filing for divorce. I think it's important for a WS to know what they can do to save the marriage ( if that is an option ) plus it gives you confirmation, if you tell him I need a.b.c. from you and he actively says, no I won't give you those things, well you know where you stand very clearly.

2. you can never untell, people knowing makes everything really messy. Only tell people that absolutely need to know, imo. It came out to some people I didn't intend and it still bothers me.

3.the gps is tricky. I think the hidden gps should be used only if you intend to prove or disprove something. so, if he says, I will do all the things you ask and he's doing everything but something is off, you can't reach him during the day or something then using the gps to prove to yourself that he has crossed your line and R has to end yes, that I think is a reason. If he says he's not going to R with you and he's not agreeing to your needs, then putting a gps in his car, I don't see the point. You know what he's doing the gps just reinforces it and makes things bad if he finds it and you're not together. Don't use it unless it's to prove NC has been broken or proof for yourself before filing, imo.

Sorry I mean in a relationship without secrets! Not open to see others.

#1yes I am petrified to present these requirements. He is defensive, blaming, on the fence right now. I only want to reconcile, but I am afraid if I push anything he will be like the rebellious teenager.
You are right, I need to be more definitive and confident in what I am not willing to live with or without. So I will take that time thank you.

#2 well on SI I have read some opinions that affairs thrive in secrecy. That coworkers, friends, fam should know. I'm sure they have that opinion because it would in a sense flush it out, expedite, or force him to make a choice.
I have not wanted anyone to know because I don't want to have to deal with fam opinions, I want to protect my kids from it as long as I can, and the fewer people he has to save face with I think the easier it would be to reconcile. That is all my rookie thoughts.

#3 I want to know where he is, but I guess I am the one that asked him to leave. High risk of him finding out that I'm tracking him too. Prob not a good idea.

I actually feel like I am doing everything exactly wrong :/

Great advice mepe27
Thanks

Just a thought on the GPS - we have iphones. If you can get into his iphone you set in private setting "find my iPhone" to on make sure his location settings are set on. Install the app on your phone. the sign on and password is his account he accesses the cloud on. it is a ghost app this way. The app will tell you where the phone is. If he isn't replying to txt messages and his phone says he is wehre he should be - it may not be on him. It is not perfect, but it is how I track my WH location. Also, less likely to be discovered. If he questions it, act dumb. Iphones have a way of turning on GPS and locators within some apps.

I agree with the others though. If you already know he isn't doing what he should no reason to go through the extra effort and risk.

To tell or not to tell: I would say it depends on the situation. If you want to be sure that he doesn't alienate you from others by blaming you, then I would tell. If he is taking responsibility there is no reason to cause undue stress and strain. If you are in R I would keep it to those who know as ask for discretion.

Good luck!

Dear Spec,
I realize this is so very difficult, but I agree with others that you are best served with NC by not explaining yourself. Remember the old saying "actions speak louder than words..."? It applies for betrayed spouses as well.

So no warning, I would give him total silence. Except for kids and finances, nothing, you are disinterested in him or his comings and goings. This will help you start to heal. Trust me. I did almost everything wrong in the beginning.

I feel like such a fool and a doormat.

Gently, you cannot be a doormat if you do not lie down. Try to focus on taking back the power in your own life.

As far as telling people at work, in my opinion it serves no purpose. If you want him to not work with her, then he needs to put on his big-boy pants and do what you need.

GPS? Why would you need a GPS if you don't care where he is or what he is doing? I know that you actually DO care, but 180 and practice NOT caring. Make sense?

I would suggest you re-read your post and notice all the "I would like..." "I feel..." "It would be a good idea..." I understand that you are not feeling strong, but strength is precisely what you need right now.

So my idea would be to find something of his that has great meaning and see how well it ignites after a thorough dousing with lighter fluid. Ritual conflagrations tend to have an empowering effect on those who initiate them! Then turn off your phone and focus on your fabulous self and your awesome kids.

Take care.

E.

Id agree with this: "to tell or not to tell: I would say it depends on the situation. If you want to be sure that he doesn't alienate you from others by blaming you, then I would tell. If he is taking responsibility there is no reason to cause undue stress and strain. If you are in R I would keep it to those who know as ask for discretion." It is surprising how fast people just do find out. He will certaily know or suspect you told the partners. Negative reaction?
All the things you articulate for measures are very fair.
I believe in the polite all but ultimatum:'These things are nonnegotiabley crucial to crucial to my well-being and to our future,if we are to have one." Then see how he reacts.I am willing to concede that IF he isn't a real rat, he too is now confused. I'd give him that much room to communicate, to agree to your just demands, by drawing the line one last time, politely,firmly. Ask for yes and no answers to the passwords,etc. You have already, I know. But this is "the line" encounter. Candidly, if he loves you, he will do it. If he doesn't, be prepared to see a lawyer. I am sorry to say that.
GPS.I can see it but the problem is you will never have enough mechanical proof to trust him, not ever.
As a man, I think he needs to "man-up"to save your feelings and the marriage.
All the advice has been good, your hard job is to evaluate.Best, H.

You need to be firm and to the point, something like:

“In order for me to even consider R with you, I require the following:

Absolutely NO CONTACT with her
You will find another place of employment by _________ date
My complete access (including passwords) to ALL email, facebook, cell phone, computer and other devices and accounts
You will find and be in IC by _______date

Until these are established I will only communicate with you regarding finances and our children.”

You are establishing boundaries. BOUNDARIES. Right now you are wearing your fluffy bunny slippers when you really need to put on your BITCH BOOTS.

(((Spec)))

As you may have guessed from the previous posters the things that your heart are telling you to do to help the situation are the opposite of what is effective.
Lets break this down a bit.

#1yes I am petrified to present these requirements. He is defensive, blaming, on the fence right now. I only want to reconcile, but I am afraid if I push anything he will be like the rebellious teenager.

Of course you are scared to death, but what you don't realize, or haven't quite accepted yet is that he is already gone, and your marriage will forever be changed. That doesn't mean it's not possible to save it, or that it can't survive this. But you cowering in the corner only results in him continuing to have the "the best of both worlds". YOU are his wife, and HE promised to love honor and cherish you. HE made the mess, and you get to determine if he is worthy of fixing it. If you do(it seems you really want to R) then you need to be hard lined and absolute in your requests. You also need to be prepared to follow through with severe and serious consequences.

You need to find your inner strength. You should go see an attorney to find out what your rights are, and his responsibilities are. Knowledge gives you power, and strength.

Also you need to focus on giving yourself the best care you can, and your kids the best mom you can be. Start focusing on what you deserve, what makes you happy, withOUT Him. What gives you strength withOUT him. I can remember feeling incredibly weak in the early days, and often the only things that gave me any level of happiness was my kids and my pets. I loved, and snuggled, and found happiness with them every day.

Find where you feel strong, and try to stay in that mental space.

You are smart, strong and capable, you will find happiness again. Demand the respect and love you deserve, and tolerate nothing less.

((((and strength)))