SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

::This is not a vent thread::

DD1: PA with old friend

No IC, No MC

DD2: I find her number in his phone.

Confession to EA; I was emotionally unavailable after DD1 and he turned to OW.

I demand IC. He figures out his “issues”. Realises OW was once again trying to get him to leave his M and she has no remorse whatsoever nor empathy towards me, her OBS or any of the kids.

After 3 months I am told he still thinks OW is a “nice person” and relationship-material if we ended up D. I am flabbergasted. Why would he have let himself go like that ? To me, it was like he fell into the pit of lies and deceit again instead of “rejecting” her and her manipulating ways.

His confession: I lied up until now, because I was afraid to confess to you about how I really felt about her. When you kept bugging me to tell you how I really felt, I told you. But now that it is in the open I realise it is just not true.

Since then he has denied any feelings for OW. She is “poison” and “just a weird wh…” and he realises she only causes pain to the people around her.

I am struggling with my need for him to tell me over and over and over again, that he truely, honestly, detests what she did. I have to admit he is trying to do right by me, now. But still.. he has been emotionally attached to her for so long, and has hurt me so badly during his A’s, that I would like for him to tell me how he now sees how she manipulated him and is a psychopath. Using examples, preferably. It always escalates and in the end he will tell me “But I already told you ! So many times! Start looking forward instead of dwelling on the bad times. I want nothing to do with her anymore!”.

He has been emotionally attached to her for so long, and has told me how she is a "nice" person for so long, I kind of feel it is time for the exact opposite.

Should I let it go ? Should he tell me he “hates” her wrongdoing on demand ?

2x4's welcomed, and again, this is not a vent thread :-)

These are my thoughts only, many may differ.

I didn't feel the need to want my husband to hate the AP's. I want him to get to a place to indifference, that they are a non-entity. I want him to hate what *HE* did.

Now, it's fine for me to hate the AP's. And I do. But if he did, it meant he was still thinking about them, putting effort into them, even if it was hatred. It meant they were still in his thoughts.

Also, if you want him to hate her, he needs to hate himself as well. Anything less would be hypocritical no? He's the one that blew up your world.

He needs to detest what HE did. She did not force him to have an affair. I think it would be better if he were to focus on his role.

I basically agree with Sam. Though I also understand your need to be absolutely sure that he doesn't harbour feelings for her anymore. I've heard that hate and love are closely tied though. Indifference (as Samantha said) is the opposite of love.

Perhaps you can you reframe in your mind what the actual need is for you. Does he feel good when he thinks about her? Does he miss her? Etc.. You need (I'm guessing obviously) to know that he feels nothing good when he thinks about her and is relieved to have her out of his life. That's not the same as hate.

Perhaps if you can ask him questions about his feelings rather than request he say certain things it might feel more authentic for both if you and might go further in reassuring you.

I'm sorry you're hurting.

Very good post by Sam. I never considered that my WS should be indifferent about OW. He is (at least I think so by his actions)! But I'm still very cautious of him because of things he said and did with her during the A. I can't help but wonder if I'm being played the fool. Make me think it's over... Things are good.... And maybe he's still contacting her? It messes with your mind!

Hearing that ow is relationship material 3 months after D-Day would be a giant red flag for me, but I can't figure out how to tell for sure if WS has changed.

The only possible way is to prove WS is out of the A mindset, IMO, would be if WS works consistently for R over a long period - a couple of years, at least, IMO.

I would like for him to tell me how he now sees how she manipulated him and is a psychopath.

Even if he was manipulated, he could have said 'No'. He cheated of his own free will. For him to claim he was manipulated into cheating would be a big setback to R - you don't really want him to be able to say, 'Poor me - it wasn't my fault - I was manipulated.'

Gently, I don't think you know if she's a psychopath or not. She probably could be a nice person if she addressed her own pain instead of looking for relief in betraying her own and others' relationships.

I would like for him to tell me how he now sees how she manipulated him and is a psychopath.

Gently, I don't think you know if she's a psychopath or not

Lack of empathy 
(she knew he was married, yet when he broke NC and told her things at home were not ok yet, she could have also told him "Call me when you’re divorced. Your kids are in the middle of you and your wife's rocky M. Fix things first, and then come see me if that's what you want. I don’t want to be the one to help you ruin your M”)

Conning, manipulative, deceitful 
(she actively tried to get him to leave me. “Confess to your wife so we can be together. The kids won’t mind if you leave her”)

Superficial charm 
(“Your BS is emotionally unavailable? I would never do that! Tell me what’s on your mind”)

Grandiose sense of self-worth


Impulsivity and irresponsibility


Even if he was manipulated, he could have said 'No'.

Believe me, I know and he knows he could’ve said no.

But I do think OWs can be manipulative too.

The first times, she used sex to get to him. When that didn’t work, she tried a different approach.

She was convinced it was the real deal this time, and they would be together.

I sort of get that: he broke NC.

But since theirs is the superior soul mates “he broke NC to be with me” love, and ours is the “he broke NC to be with her” love, I feel inferior every day.

[This message edited by AmberDust at 12:22 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

It was my full expectation that my husband hate the AP's role in my pain. He needed to hate bringing her into our lives. He needed to hate allowing her access to my home. I needed him to hate the thought of sex with her and feel sick about every single conversation.

I am speaking in the past tense here.

Indifference could come later. I needed him to project the negative feelings onto her, until he was ready to process his own shame and guilt. And she was the tool.

Since she inserted herself into our world as a tool of destruction, I was OK using her as "tool" toward our/his healing. She after all placed herself in that role.

We went through that phase and eventually moved to the next steps...which did involve me feeling the same way about him and he about himself. This is a process and you are NOT required to skip the steps that may be necessary for your journey.

((AD))

refuz2bavictim, you're right. I want him to be disgusted with what he has done, she has done.

We talked yesterday. He told me he has no feelings for OW whatsoever. There is nothing anymore. I think that is a good thing.