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User Topic: Sleeping in separate rooms
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's a thread in the general forum about this but I just don't like to post there so I will ask you guys and gals. I am at the 6 month mark of what was a betrayal of dishonesty and porn usage which I was caught instead of confessing. I have been in the spare bedroom the entire time.

Lately, things have improved somewhat as interactions between us are more relaxed, we are going on a couple of dates each month and she has indicated to me that she is beginning to feel a little (stress little) different.

With that being said there still has been no hugging, kissing, hand holding or anything except for me kissing her on the forehead goodnight.

I have not pushed for this to go quicker in any fashion and do not want to rush her as I have told her repeatedly that I will be here when she is ready.

However, I feel a lot like the folks on the other thread in that I feel like the separate bedrooms are just not helping at this point and I feel like we need to take the step of going back to sleeping in the same bed. My question is how or should I even bring this up to my BS? Is it too soon? If not how do I do this without putting pressure on her? I know part of this is just me wanting this but on the other hand I truly feel like the separate rooms are holding us back and are not helping. I feel like we are separated but just living in the same house.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
Prayingforhope
♂ 41801
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi bigidiot, sounds like you are separated but just living in the same house, diff rooms, etc. I often assume that is where I would be if we didn't have the resources for me to pick up my rent payment.

Question - went you agreed to the in-home separation did you lock down a timeline? I understand this to be a key part of any separation agreement across the many things that MC recommend are agreed up front, in terms of finances, dating, etc. the overall timeline also needs to be discussed.

From everything I have been told, it seems this is a big one both for your BS to have a framework to either move R along in a positive fashion or do the about-face and head the other direction. I also know that once you're trying to R, you also deserve some happiness. So a timeline somehow becomes your framework for when you may be the one to make the decision to consider leaving.

Obviously this should all be done in MC, non-threatening, objective environment, but any good mutual separation agreement (not a legal thing mind you, just the joint agreement between the two of you) would include a timeframe.

If you don't have that, at this stage, I would vote for you to open the subject in a safe and caring way.

Good luck!


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bumping to see if I can get a few responses from BS's. No offense Praying but I also would like to hear from some folks that are a little further out from DDay.

Just not sure if/how I should approach this. Thanks


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
TrulySad
♀ 39652
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the two of you aren't talking about this, I don't think you'll ever make any progress. I don't know for sure why your BW isn't wanting to discuss things, but as time goes by, she could be becoming content with the new living situation and conditions of your marriage. Please don't misunderstand me though....it doesn't mean she's content with what you've done. But maybe it's all so difficult to deal with, that she'd rather move on, married, but essentially living alone now.

If you want this to change, don't be afraid to express that. If she's not open to talking yet, maybe you can write to her. Make it a daily thing. Talk to her that way. Tell her how you're feeling. Tell her how much you love her and miss her. If you've changed, tell her how. Own your mess ups. Maybe leave her a letter each day, on her pillow. Let her know you don't want things to be this way.

I don't think separate rooms is healthy, long term. But you're going to need to start talking, before I see her agreeing to sharing a room again. You do have a right to see some sort of direction with your marriage. As for a timeline...I don't believe in proposing one. This isn't an easy time for her. No one has the right to tell her how long it should, or will take for her to recover. If she's worth it to you, to fight for, than all I can say is look for progress. The only way to gain that is with your actions, and by talking. I think you need to do more of both right now.


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 481 | Registered: Jun 2013
Prayingforhope
♂ 41801
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No offense taken. What the heck do I know anyways. If I had my act together, I guess I wouldn't be hanging out here just to get through the days!


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
womaninflux
♀ 39667
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My SAWH and I initially stayed in the same bedroom but after almost 5 months past DD and things were not getting better in any aspect of our marriage, I asked him to move into the guest room. I was pretty much DONE and was not going to let him return until we were back on track in every sense. This included having sex…something that had long been removed from our marriage (his choice…not mine). I was adamant about that…I did not want to be in a sexless marriage any longer.

We would go out every week on a date and he would come back up to my room with me for awhile but always ended up going back to his own room. Then a couple of months after he moved to the guest room, he began sleeping over on weekends. The marriage counselor found this was very encouraging and kept pressing for my husband to return to the bedroom. I was dragging my feet. Through a series of circumstances - work needing to be done to our room and finally a family visit requiring he give up the guest suite - he has returned and I do think it was time for it to happen but I feel an enormous sense of pressure, like it's time to make it or break it. I'm not 100% on board with it, truth be told.

If you want to move forward, you might start by asking if it's ok to kiss her. She may very well be waiting for you to initiate more physical contact. Remember, she has probably been hearing that "actions speak louder than words." Also, I'm assuming that you and your BS don't have the best communication history because this was the case in my marriage (and continues to be something we both really have to fight against as we try to R). So if you want something, you need to ask for it and talk about it. Talk about how you feel, ask her how she feels.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

womaninflux, obviously I don't know the inner workings of all the struggles you and your husband are going through but from what you have said I have the suspicion that you and my BS are kind of on the same wave length. Also, you are dead on when you guessed that we have communication issues. I have always known I did but I have come to realize that my BS does as well. When she is upset with me, rather than talk about it she retreats and puts up a wall. When she does speak it is just anger coming out. I don't think she knows how to express what she is feeling otherwise.

I appreciate what you said because it confirms what I was thinking. The issue here is not sleeping in separate rooms, the issue is COMMUNICATION.

I am learning that my inability to convey my feelings to her and her reluctance to talk about the situation has and is contributing to the lack of progress. I am working my rear end off but if I can't talk to her I don't see us moving forward.

I know this is going to sound stupid but you have to remember that I struggle with this. Do I just sit down beside her and tell her I would like to talk for a minute and see if she is open to it? What if she agrees but doesn't say anything because that's what normally happens since DDay? Do I just tell her how I feel and express my desires? I feel like such a idiot for even having to ask that. I've got to get better at just spilling what I am thinking and not bottling it up and hoping things improve. Thoughts?


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
DixieD
♀ 33457
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BI, I don't have time right now to write a long reply but I was wondering would you and your wife be open to a program like Retrouvaille, which helps couples work on expressing feelings and communication?


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
womaninflux
♀ 39667
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would baby step things. Allow a format for both of you to dip your toes in to see if one step is going to work, then if so, stick your foot in and so on. One of my issues is that I am super cautious and don't want to feel trapped/overwhelmed and I need to ease my way into things and feel more like it's under my control or in my comfort zone.

Sit down and FACE each other. If you are on the sofa, turn your legs towards one another. One thing I have learned in MC is that part of our communication problem is that we don't look at each other in the eyes when we talk. I don't have this issue with other people except for him and my mother and my siblings. My father and I are ok. Weird, huh? So, yes, very important, face each other. Take her hands and make the effort to really connect. It sounds so silly but it has worked for us. We practiced this in MC and then use it at home as well. It is really something that my SAWH has to work at…he said his psychiatrist commented that he observed that SAWH doesn't look at him in the eye. It has something to do with shame and avoidance. Well, shocker, these are two reasons why we are in this situation. My avoidance, his avoidance, his shame re: FOO issues and undo SA issues. Psychiatrists are so insightful don't you think? LOL.

Are you open to reading a book? There is a book by Harville Hendrix "Getting the Love You Want" and it has some exercises in it that are meant for you to do with your partner. It's a pretty interesting book in terms of going into the reasons why we all have emotional roadblocks because of life events (death of parent at early age, physical/emotional/sexual abuse, mental illness of family member, chaos in family due to addiction or affairs, etc.). My SAWH did not complete these exercises because a lot of it is what we are covering already in various therapies we are undertaking but I looked at a lot of the questions and I can see that it would be helpful.

If she is not saying anything about how she feels, it's because you aren't asking her and you aren't expressing your feelings. She doesn't think you are interested and she is still filling in the blanks herself about your feelings/thoughts. This is a pattern I am now aware of that I did my entire life (because I was emotionally neglected by my mother and my father made himself unavailable to the family because of his career aspirations). I am working hard to identify when I slip back into it (because it's comfortable for me to do this instead of do the work it takes to peel back the layers of feelings and emotion!) and how I can address it.

It's also not about what you say but how you say it. So just keep that in mind. Use a lot of "I" statements. "I feel hurt when you don't respond to me when I tell you I am having a tough day." Vs. "You don't say anything to me anymore."


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dixie, at this point I think Retrouvaille is a long shot. We are both in IC right now but when the topic of MC has come up she is reluctant. She says what happened, happened and you can't go back and undo it so what is the point. I tried to say it would help us work through this together but to no avail so far.

womaninflux, I appreciate your response as it was very helpful. I think she feels like you do in that she wants to go at this at her own pace and not feel pressured/trapped/cornered etc. She is very guarded and the wall she has put up is still very much there.

What is weird is that we are very talkative about everything but this issue. To me it is soon going to become the awkward elephant in the room if it isn't addressed. I want to deal with it and show her how committed I am to making changes in my life and learning to be a better husband but at this point I cannot seem to engage her. She is just content to be my friend and live in the same house. She is very friendly and even nice to me.

I will take your advice and take baby steps but I think I have to try to talk to her about it. If she doesn't talk back I think I will just express my feelings and leave it at that. I try to write her and text her but she never replies as long as the subject matter is the betrayal.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I think I know what I need to do, I just hope she is responsive to it.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
DixieD
♀ 33457
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She says what happened, happened and you can't go back and undo it so what is the point.

Honestly BI, I'm worried about your wife having that thought and this thread demonstrates why it's not healthy. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=520338

I think just as a BS needs to watch a WS actions and not just their words, a WS needs to look at the actions of their BS and not just their words too -- if that makes sense. Are the BS moving forward, even in tiny little ways?

What worries me about your wife is that she said that she is perfectly happy living as things are now forever (for your son). Limbo is hell. Why resign yourself to a life like that?

Seeing parents live in separate rooms and showing no affection for each other affects children as much as if the parents divorce. My in-laws lived like that and eventually the bitterness took over. My husband says his life would have been better had they just divorced than live together separately during his childhood. His father wore that fact that he stayed for the sake of his kids like a badge of honor. He martyred himself. I hope your wife is not planning on doing the same thing.

I hope you are seeing changes in her behavior towards you. Positive signs.

I agree with WIF, you will have to move slowly because she's moving at a snails pace. If you push for something too soon and leap a head, such as moving back into your bedroom, it could backfire. But at the same time it's understandable that living in limbo it not going to be a long-term solution.

Good luck.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
NikkiD
♀ 38173
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here...
Its the second time for me, and I personally dont want him to touch me....thats it. Im disgusted. My mind movies play out where he was hitting the other chick raw and that literally makes me throw up a little....

She probably feels violated.....and its not certain how long that feeling will last. We are prepared for just about every type of adversity in life accept this. Its a tough hit....

Be encouraged though, it seems to be getting better.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are the BS moving forward, even in tiny little ways?
She is moving just as you say, in tiny little ways.

What worries me about your wife is that she said that she is perfectly happy living as things are now forever (for your son).
She hasn't said this in a long time and when she did say it she was in a fit of rage so I'm hoping deep down she didn't mean it.

you will have to move slowly because she's moving at a snails pace. If you push for something too soon and leap a head, such as moving back into your bedroom, it could backfire. But at the same time it's understandable that living in limbo it not going to be a long-term solution.
I think this is going to be my plan. I think at this point it won't hurt anything to try to express what I'm feeling to her, SLOWLY. If she responds favorably great. If not then I will have to re-evaluate.

Thanks so much for the replies. I don't know what I would do without this site.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
DixieD
♀ 33457
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She hasn't said this in a long time and when she did say it she was in a fit of rage so I'm hoping deep down she didn't mean it.

That's good, and the point I was trying to get at. I said A LOT of things but my husband watched my actions more than my words. My actions showed I wanted to R, when sometimes my words did not.

Keep at it, BI.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
womaninflux
♀ 39667
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that our MC said a couple of days ago that makes a lot of sense is that if you talk about the hard stuff, it takes its power away from it. In other words, if you avoid talking about it, it becomes just that much more powerful and then you want to avoid it more. This is something I need to work on because I have the tendency to put on a smile and soldier on. Not a great strategy for the long run. As Dr. Phil says, you can't fix what you don't acknowledge.

ETA: when you say above the comment about living like that forever was said in a fit of rage so you hope she did not mean it…please don't make the mistake of "filling in the blanks." If you are wondering, ask her.

[This message edited by womaninflux at 3:56 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
Wayflost
♀ 41583
Member # 41583
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you earlier stated you wanted to hear from people farther down the road than you, but... I can't help myself. You are free to ignore me though!

Maybe start the topic of affection with something smaller than sex, same room. I told my BH I missed physical contact of hand holding, snuggling on the couch, brushing each other's legs under the table. We don't kiss, don't have sex, sleep in different rooms, but we are slowly rebuilding our connection through safe touching.

Just my humble 2 cents.


Me: WW
Him: BH (totalheartbreak)
Both: 30s

Posts: 496 | Registered: Dec 2013
GraceRunner
♀ 39856
Member # 39856
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe you could open a discussion by first asking her about her feelings. Things like "How do you feel about our sleeping arrangements?, Do you miss physical signs of affection between us?, How do you see us moving forward from here in regards to physical intimacy?, Are there things I can be doing from a physical touch standpoint that would help you?"

For the first conversation seek to hear and understand her. Without any agenda of your own. After you've had time to think about her answers and she has had more time to process that this is something you brought up because you care about her and your marriage, then have a conversation sharing your feelings. But I think the first conversation needs to be focused on where she's at with it.


Me - FWW, 38
Him - BS, 42
Married 15 years
2 young daughters
4 month EA/PA, DDAY 10/12

Posts: 40 | Registered: Jul 2013
painfulpast
♀ 41038
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


What worries me about your wife is that she said that she is perfectly happy living as things are now forever (for your son).
She hasn't said this in a long time and when she did say it she was in a fit of rage so I'm hoping deep down she didn't mean it.

You are discussing a lack of communication, and yet you haven't asked this basic question. I think that if communication is to improve, this would be a very good place to start.


Has your wife changed her mind regarding feeling that the marriage is done? You've made a comment here that she said, about not being able to 'undo' it, so I have to wonder if she is still of the mindset that the marriage is now a marriage in name only, and that you are married now for your son.

Do you know if that is what she is still thinking?



The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that our MC said a couple of days ago that makes a lot of sense is that if you talk about the hard stuff, it takes its power away from it. In other words, if you avoid talking about it, it becomes just that much more powerful and then you want to avoid it more.
Exactly. I need to do a much better job of this. I think my BS does too but I know it will have to be her realizing this for herself, at least for now until we are a little further down the road and are communicating better.

Maybe start the topic of affection with something smaller than sex, same room. I told my BH I missed physical contact of hand holding, snuggling on the couch, brushing each other's legs under the table. We don't kiss, don't have sex, sleep in different rooms, but we are slowly rebuilding our connection through safe touching.
This basically where we are at even though I haven't actually verbalized it to her. I took your advice and wrote her a note last night telling her that I miss these things and that I do desire them. I asked her if she ever thought about them or missed them. No response yet.

Has your wife changed her mind regarding feeling that the marriage is done? You've made a comment here that she said, about not being able to 'undo' it, so I have to wonder if she is still of the mindset that the marriage is now a marriage in name only, and that you are married now for your son.

Do you know if that is what she is still thinking?

I can't say for sure because I haven't straight out asked her but judging by her actions she does not feel that way. What I mean by that is she is no longer angry and she is allowing me to get closer to her. I have been trying to touch her hand, sneak a kiss on the cheek as I greet her and just generally be a little more touchy feely in the last few days. She doesn't pull away or act like she doesn't want me to so I'm just proceeding with caution. I realize that I've got to start talking to her about these things. I started last night with the note and will continue to try and seize any opportunities to do so.

Thanks so much for the advice. It's funny how bad I am at something that should be so easy. It's just talking. And even more it's just talking to someone who should want to listen to you more than anyone else in the world. Why do I make it so difficult?


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
Topic Posts: 19

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