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Neveragain1221 posted 1/22/2014 19:01 PM

My BS posted a topic on this situation here:

Okay, so I have a friend. My friend is a mutual friend between my former AP and myself, as well as being best friends with my former AP's wife. My friend, I'll call her Jane, told my BS last year that my AP had made a move on her. Jane was insistent that my AP, I'll call him Ralph, was a womanizer who hit on everything with a pulse and a pair of breasts. She said she turned him down, and he ceased trying to get with her. Anyway, Jane and Ralph's Wife have been friends for many, many years. When all of this started, my BS sent a message on Facebook to Ralph's Wife, telling her everything, including what Jane had told him.

Jane was upset, and confronted me about what BS said. She denied that she had ever told him Ralph had tried anything with her. So she either lied to him about Ralph, or she lied to me about what she said. When BS and I began discussing the situation, we both began to realize things that make us think Jane is also having an affair with Ralph, and has been for a long time. She'd arrange for us to come to her house, and when we showed up, Ralph would ALWAYS already be there. Sometimes, Jane would ask us to delay our arrival by a few hours, and when we'd get there at the later time, Ralph would again be there before anyone else. Knowing how Ralph behaves towards women, I'm honestly surprised at myself that I didn't catch on sooner. The only reason he would have to be showing up earlier than everyone else is because he was seeing her.

BS wants to go to Ralph's Wife again and confront her with the evidence on Jane. I don't want to, because I think that is between Jane, Ralph, and Ralph's Wife. I am torn between what to do about Jane. Jane and I have been good friends for several years, and we enjoy each others company. However, I am afraid Jane will take sides, because she knows about my A, and she'll side with Ralph. Jane can be quite conniving, and I am afraid that she will pretend to keep a friendship with me, only to inform on what I tell her to Ralph and Ralph's Wife.

Any advice on the best way to confront her with what I know and how to deal with this problem? I really would like to salvage the friendship with her, but I'm afraid that might be impossible.

RealityStinks posted 1/22/2014 19:26 PM

Brother, you have enough problems of your own at home. You need to kick all those people out of your life AND your WW's life. Let them sink their own ship.

To emphasize, absolutely NO to your WW continuing her friendship with this other woman. Doesn't seem like the kind of person that would dissuade your WW from cheating again does it? You don't need that kind of person in your life in any form.

Hang in there man.

I'll tell you the same thing I told you H. See above.

The fact that you're even asking about trying to salvage a relationship with this woman is a slap in the face to your H, IMO. It's like you want to keep a connection to "Ralph". I know he's trying to get Ralph's wife to believe the truth, but who cares at this point. He did his due diligence. It's time for BOTH of you to move on.

forevermine posted 1/22/2014 19:32 PM

WTF? This is not my account I just posted with......

[This message edited by forevermine at 7:34 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

Neveragain1221 posted 1/22/2014 19:40 PM

Okay, for whatever reason, I was logged out of this account and logged into the "forevermine" user account. That account is not mine and I have no clue how that happened.

Anyway, thanks for your advice. I really don't want to keep a connection to Ralph. Jane has been a friend of mine for about the same length of time Ralph has been, but they were friends before I came around. Jane and I have been close since the beginning, and ending a friendship with her will be hard. Ralph I don't care about. I cut off all ties with him, blocked his number/email/FB profile, so there's no way he can contact me outside of physically coming to me. If he does that, I intend to call the police, because I told him to never contact in any way again.

Anyway, Jane, Ralph, and I all participate in a lot of the same activities and things. We all have a lot of mutual friends. I stopped going to mutual activities so I wouldn't risk running into Ralph. If I cut ties with Jane in addition to Ralph, I pretty much have to cut ties with everyone I know, because there is no way to see any of them without seeing Ralph and Jane.

I guess I'm just looking for a way to end it amicably with Jane. If I end it amicably enough, I may be able to salvage relationships with some of my other friends. A few of them are closer to Jane and me than to Ralph.

Skan posted 1/22/2014 19:57 PM

You have a choice here. You can choose to support your BH by going immediately NC with Jane, or you can choose to put your "friend" before your BH, once again showing him disrespect, lack of caring, and lack of remorseful empathy.

Choose wisely.

Mrs Panda posted 1/22/2014 20:41 PM

Wow. So much drama here it is making my head spin.

You do not need to be involved in this drama.
Being friends with a friend of AP should be off limits anyway and especially one with questionable ethics

The answer is clear: go NC with Jane.

ETA. Losing friendships is a consequence of cheating within your circle. Many lose more. You will make new, and hopefully better, friends.

[This message edited by Mrs Panda at 8:46 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

Ascendant posted 1/22/2014 20:43 PM

Yeah....I think you need to just cut anchor with the whole group. It sounds like unhealthy dynamics.

womaninflux posted 1/22/2014 21:10 PM

The MC SAWH and I are seeing would call this "triangulation." It's never a good idea.

Also, may I ask you, what are the qualities you seek in a "good friend of many years"? I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but you might want to examine those and make sure your friendships are healthy.

Generally speaking, it's never a good idea to be friendly with someone who is having an affair. You don't want the burden of carrying around that secret or being part of the charade (whether or not you know you are part of it). At some point, the jig will be up and you don't want to be implicated.

I'm not sure you should tell Ralph's wife but I would definitely go NC with Jane. You don't really owe her an explanation for why you are suddenly "busy."

Neveragain1221 posted 1/23/2014 04:45 AM

Thanks everybody. Advice is appreciated.

My H and I talked for about 3 hours last night about this, and we agreed that going NC with 'Jane' is best. My only issue is getting her to take it like an adult. When she feels wronged, she tends to lash out. She is a coworker, and she tends to gossip. She's kept quiet about everything so far because she and I are still friends, but I fear what she'll tell my supervisors and other coworkers, who have no business knowing anything. My H and I have decided to be totally honest with her about why, about how all evidence points to her having an A with 'Ralph', about how she lied to us about it, about how she continually lies to Ralphs Wife, and about how we can't have that in our lives as we try to rebuild. There's a chance she'll take it like an adult and we can go our separate ways amicably, but there is a better chance she'll get angry and go on the offensive.

As for why we have been good friends, there are a lot of reasons. We have fun together, we can communicate and work well together, we enjoy many of the same things, etc. I know I've listed a lot of her bad qualities, that she gets angry, that she lashes out, that she gossips, and that's mainly a way to try and force myself to focus on those, so ending things will be easier. She's not all bad, she'll go through hell and back to help someone she considers a friend, and she'll defend someone no matter the consequences to herself.

One of my biggest reasons for wanting to end it with her is because I believe she is setting me up for betrayal down the line. I do truly think she's having an A with 'Ralph', and I believe she's choosing to side with Ralph and Ralph's Wife by claiming I'm lying and I'm just trying to hurt them. I confronted her and asked her why she thinks I'd risk my H, my house, my entire way of life, over a lie, and she had no answer for me.

Back in November, before D-Day, I had sent her messages asking her how to gracefully end my friendship with Ralph. I stopped seeing Ralph in a sexual way a year and a half before D-Day, and I wanted to stop seeing him in a friendly way as well. I had previously and repeatedly told him that he needed to stop flirting and stop trying to get me alone, but he always kept up with the "I miss you"'s and the "We should catch up" 's, and the surprise drop ins at work. I was sick of it, and sick of him not listening to me when I told him I was done. Anyway, after I asked her advice, Ralph ceased trying to talk to me, and only glares daggers at me when I accidentally run into him. I know 100% that Jane went straight to him and told him that I wanted to never talk to him again. On one hand, I was relieved because it stopped his persistence, but on the other I had stressed that she needed to not say anything until I figured out the best way to handle things.

So in conclusion, I want any advice you guys can give me on how to damage control this as much as possible. I am hoping to be able to end this like adults, where my H and I sit down with her and explain our side of everything, explain why we can't continue to have her in our life, and why we'll be ceasing contact with her. I'm hoping that, if we give her a chance to defend herself against our "accusations" and give us her side, we can end it like adults, so she doesn't feel like we're ganging up on her.

Calabro posted 1/23/2014 06:58 AM

How about this. You tell her your husband feels uncomfortable you being friends with anyone who has ties with OM. You want to work on your marriage and respect his wishes. Even though you will miss her, in order to work in your marriage you will severe all your friendship with friends of OM, including her. Keep the story of her possible relationship with Ralph out of your explanation

gahurts posted 1/23/2014 07:28 AM

If I am reading your post corretly, you and your H go to Jame's house and casually meet with Jane and your OM. I don't understand how you and your H can stay in the same circle of friends as your OM. Having to see OM casually in a group setting would drive me crazy. Your H must have very sound resolve to be able to deal with that.

I can be cordial for a few minutes to xWW's OM but I really can't stand to see him and certainly don't want to go do things with them. If your H is involved in this circle of friends with the OM, I would suspect it has to be killing him slowly inside.

Brandon808 posted 1/23/2014 07:29 AM

You asked for advice on how to deal with 'Ralph'. She went to 'Ralph' behind your back instead. She lied to your BH or to 'Ralph's' BW.
She has shown what kind of person she is and what her priorities are.

The last thing you can expect is for her to be an adult. Forget about that. That ship has sailed.
You need to worry more about protecting yourself. Confronting with everything you know and what conclusions you've drawn from it will not do anything but arm her with more information than she had to begin with.
I would consult an attorney with a detailed, factual timeline of everything involving 'Jane'
Do not go to HR. Their job is compliance. They protect the firm, not employees.

longroadhome posted 1/23/2014 08:01 AM

I, personally, did not keep friendships with anyone who knew about, condoned, supported, or helped to lie about my A. I didn't know any of the ow's friends, but there's no way in hell I would try to stay friends with them if I did. Your choices are your own, but IMO, cut 'em loose. You don't need the drama and it may give some peace if mind to your BS.

Your mileage may vary, some assembly required, batteries not included, results are not typical.

lost_in_toronto posted 1/23/2014 08:39 AM

How about this. You tell her your husband feels uncomfortable you being friends with anyone who has ties with OM. You want to work on your marriage and respect his wishes. Even though you will miss her, in order to work in your marriage you will severe all your friendship with friends of OM, including her. Keep the story of her possible relationship with Ralph out of your explanation.

Just based on how you are characterizing this woman - vindictive, manipulative, etc. - I would approach it like this. Except instead of saying it is your husband that is uncomfortable I would go with: "My husband and I are doing all that we can, together, to rebuild our marriage. We have decided, together, that it is essential that neither of us maintain friendships with people who have ties to the OM. This means that I can no longer continue our friendship." This presents a united front.

ETA - I know that our choice of words isn't always well considered. However, I do think it is worth your consideration that you have described your relationship with your AP as a friendship, and have repeatedly called this woman your friend. Are these the kind of people you want to have friendships with? Perhaps you need to think about what kind of friends you think are worthy of you, and that you yourself are worthy of. I hope I don't sound snarky - I am genuinely wondering if you are selling yourself short in the friend department.

[This message edited by lost_in_toronto at 8:55 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

bionicgal posted 1/23/2014 09:42 AM

I don't get why you need to confront her with the affair? What am I missing here? It just sounds like you want to be back in the thick of the drama. Or, you are feeling competitive about Ralph.

If my H wanted to confront a friend who he thought having an affair with his old AP, I'd be like- WTF?? Ick.

Ditch Jane. I wouldn't make a scene - how about just benign neglect, unless you have a thing for drama. . .

Neveragain1221 posted 1/23/2014 12:00 PM

Thanks everyone. I also would prefer to keep the story of her affair with AP out of things, but my H makes a good point: A big reason we're cutting her out of our lives is because of her dishonesty. We can't condemn her for being dishonest with us if we're being dishonest with her about the reasons we're severing the friendship. A large part of it is because she's so close to "Ralph." It would be too awkward if, a few years down the line, Jane decides things have "settled down" and that it would be okay to invite all of us to a party or something.

I do appreciate the suggestions on the wording. I was going to go with something along those lines. Something like:


I know we've been friends for a long time, but due to the recent circumstances I feel BH and I will be unable to continue to associate with you. There is too strong of a relationship between you and AP, and we do not feel it is healthy for us to be involved with anyone he is involved with. I am severing ties with many friends over this, and you have to be one of them. BH and I need to be able to focus soley on our relationship. We can't spend time wondering if, every time we see you, it will involve seeing Ralph as well.

When you spoke with BH in 2012, you told him that "Ralph" was a womanizer who had tried to start a relationship with you. When asked about that situation, you lied to Ralph's Wife and also to me. In our current situation, we cannot have a relationship with someone who would lie to us. It is unfortunate that we have to do this, but BH and I both agree that it is necessary."

Short and to the point. I intend when all this is over to block her phone number and FB, but I plan on also giving her a few days to respond to what I said.

[This message edited by Neveragain1221 at 12:05 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

itainteasy posted 1/23/2014 12:11 PM

^ I think what you plan to say is fine. I also think Jane is going to go nuclear about it.

Have you considered looking for work elsewhere? I don't have be psychic to see a hostile work enviromnent brewing for you. People who have no business knowing your business are going to. You probably are going to have to have a talk with your supervisors and managers about it. Because you're not going to be able to work with Jane.

She's not going to make it possible.

And if she takes this quietly, I'd watch my back because she'll probably throw 100 knives at it as soon as she can. I'd watch for buses might find yourself under them.

Find a new job, if possible. Completely remove her from your life. And yeah, you'll probably lose the other friends you shared as well.

You'll make new ones.

Good luck.

Neveragain1221 posted 1/23/2014 12:24 PM

Thankfully, Jane and I work in two different deparments on different shifts, so we don't see each other at work very often. I am concerned about what she says to other coworkers, because some of them are good friends with my direct supervisor, and I know word will get back to him. I already let him know I was having marital issues because he was irritated at me for being unable to concentrate at work, so at least I have that going for me.

I am currently being considered for a promotion that will get me out of the building entirely, so fingers crossed I get that and can just get away from everyone.

EDIT: At approx 3:40, I sent my NC letter to my friend. Needless to say, she was upset and told me to be careful burning my bridges, because I may want to come back.

Unfortunately, some bridges need burned.

[This message edited by Neveragain1221 at 3:47 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

womaninflux posted 1/24/2014 10:18 AM

Neveragain -

Saying what is described in a few posts up makes it sound like you aren't deciding to end your contact with her on your own…it makes you sound a little like a victim - like if it weren't for AP being involved, you would still want to hang out with Jane. You need to sound strong and firm in your beliefs. Own it, so to speak.

If you really feel like you need to say something to her, you might want to limit it to:

"I need to concentrate on improving myself right now. I will always be grateful to you for your friendship and discretion over the years but for now I need to take a break to focus on what I need to do to move forward. I hope your continued discretion about my personal life is something I can count on. You can absolutely count on me where yours is concerned."

Perhaps say this over coffee or lunch (so you can look her in the eye and she knows you aren't outwardly angry at her for anything in particular) at a place where no one will run into you…this worked well for me when I had to confront someone who was telling people I said things about someone. I said "I don't know what is going on here, but I think we both agree that it's never a good idea to attach someone's name to something of this nature." That shut that situation down…no fallout since then.

I remember when I went through that I was worried…I did not want people to think I was talking about them behind their backs. And the stuff that was being spread around was stuff I did not know anything about in the first place!

I think you have to take the approach of "Will this matter in 10 days/10 weeks/10 months/10 years?" Think about the answers to those questions.

I've dealt with a few women (and men) like "Jane" in my life. The less said to them the better. Nothing you say to them will deter them from motor mouthing things because they have to justify why you are the bad guy in the scenario. They will blab about it to anyone who will listen because they want to seem "in the know" (they get power from that in a strange way). Smart people consider the source. Jane is the common denominator, they know she is always the center of the drama and this is not her first trip to the DRAMA RODEO.

Above all else: people have short memories and are onto the next drama quickly. We live in a 24 hour news cycle.

Also one other thing I was wondering about: Is it possible that she is not having an affair with Ralph but that she was intentionally trying to have you run into him at her house so she could just stir up shit? If so, just another reason why your association with her should end. She doesn't have your best interest at heart.

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