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Is this normal? Can we really make it?

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Leafan1976 posted 1/23/2014 08:35 AM

So I'm not going to post my whole story here again. But what I am struggling with is..... DD was 3 years ago DD#2 a year or so later. Then NC was broken a year ago.

What I need is some encouragement. I/we want to save this marriage. When the A is not a dominating focus we are great together. We LOVE each other, but I mean how long does it take before I stop slipping into depression? How long does it take before the trust starts to come back? Or will it ever come back?
I truly hate the way I feel. I have zero self confidence, seems like everything I do lately I fail at, nothing is what it should be. This is not the life I wanted. But shit happens I guess.

Anyways. If anyone can shed some light on a reasonable timeline, I'm worried I will never let go of the hurt and distrust.

Brandon808 posted 1/23/2014 08:55 AM

but I mean how long does it take before I stop slipping into depression? How long does it take before the trust starts to come back? Or will it ever come back?
Every year for the last three years you have a new bomb drop. Dday #1 three years ago. Dday #2 two years and broken NC 1 year ago. With this pattern in front of you my question why do expect the trust to come back at all? Your WW has clearly shown she will violate that trust even after seeing the hurt it caused you. You were posting just a few months ago that your WW still has an emotional attachment to the OM and misses him. None of this is really old news. These wounds are still relatively new.

Blobette posted 1/23/2014 09:06 AM

I agree with Brandon. One of the random statistics cited here is that R is successful 80% of the time WHEN BOTH PARTNERS ARE ON BOARD. Ahhhhh -- there's the rub! How do you know your partner is genuinely on board? And maybe this is a deal-breaker for me, and I'm not as on board as I thought I was in the first place? So that stat is pretty useless, IMO.

However, in your case... is your WS remorseful? If not, no timeline is ever going to apply. And with the extent of the TT and multiple DDs, I'm not sure how remorseful your WW is, especially if Brandon is correct re her attitude toward the OM. Has she done the work? Does she understand why she did what she did? Does she take full responsibility and does she focus on YOUR healing?

After 3 years, it's time to ask some hard questions. It's no surprise that you're not healing, if she broke NC a year ago and isn't doing the other stuff I mentioned. (I don't know about the last part.) The things that are slowly, slowly inching me toward being able to live with this are 1) consistently changed behaviors (demonstrating empathy and understanding of my needs/perspective) and 2) ability to talk openly and insightfully about what happened. Every new behavior is an inch in the right direction.

So there's no timeline. The 2-5 years cited on here is from the last DD. And every person and every situation is different.

Good luck.

sisoon posted 1/23/2014 09:47 AM

The rule of thumb is 2-5 years from the last (big) hurt, which is a year ago for you. Given your W's history, I expect it will take towards the long side.

The 80% number is probably one I quote often, from Shirley Glass - 80% of couples she worked with who started wanting R succeeded in R, but they both had to work at it.

IMO, the WS's work is most important. What has your W done to heal beside stay NC for a year - IC, MC, give you full honesty and transparency, etc?

Leafan1976 posted 1/23/2014 09:49 AM

Not sure if you all can tell from all my posts. But I am a mess. I battle depression constantly. I almost feel like I won't let myself be happy. Been this way my entire life.

I don't know if I should just post her user name here and maybe let you read through her side. Maybe an outside opinion that knows both sides would help more.

I don't know.

FightingBack posted 1/23/2014 10:15 AM

leafan, of course you are a mess. You have suffered a very severe crisis in your life and the aftershocks keep coming.

If you weren't traumatized, it would seem strange.

You know that this is a terrible thing to happen. We all do. No one here will ever tell you to get over it. But we must live with it. It sure isn't easy as you know, but you can do it.

You MUST do it for your children. You must find a way to cope and make decisions for your future that are right for you as we'll as for your children. Only you will know what those are, and it may take awhile to for you to get there.

So for now, take one day at a time. Do what you can to soothe yourself. Care for yourself. Come here for support.

Don't pressure yourself to "be over it", but don't let the selfish actions of another defeat you either.

We are here.

somanyyears posted 1/23/2014 10:16 AM

..OK.. first, the reason for your lifelong depression is right there in your user name!! .. being a Leaf fan has made all of us depressed.. I at least saw them win 4 Stanley Cups in the 60's..'ve got to have faith though!! We will win that Cup again in our lifetime!!!

..I finally got to the ACC last Sat. night to see the leafs take the Habs 5-3.. took my 2 sons.. it was Great!!, the M.. for me, nearing 5 years out from D-day #3, accepting the whole truth and it's far reaching damage has been tough. It is simply a long, hard grind to get thru all the crap, but if you both are determined to succeed, it can happen. try, however you may, to push away the bad thoughts and movies, focus on the positive and you can begin to put a few good days together, then work on a longer string of wins. the Leafs, hey--6 wins in a row.. if they can do it.. hey, so can you!!

keep fighting for what you want, and tell her too. make sure she is giving you what she can to help you heal..

..and yes, SHIT does HAPPEN.. and it happened to us... are we going to take it or wash it all off!!! Time to hit the showers and get rid of the stink in our lives!!!

take care 1976..


[This message edited by somanyyears at 10:19 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

Kyrie posted 1/23/2014 10:32 AM

Leafan, if you battle depression constantly then this will greatly affect your attempts at healing. It skews your perception about everything. Even if you and your WS make progress, depression will squash any hope that can come from that. Depression by itself can be debilitating, but you add your WS not making a complete clean break from the A, and of course, you'll be a mess. Infidelity is traumatic and depressing for even the most resilient folks. You say you want to save the marriage. Then the first order of business is to do your part and get healthy.

Get thee into IC ASAP, if you're not already doing so. And see your doc about medication, too. Even if you're already taking an AD, if you're still battling depression, you may not be on the right drug. Not all AD and therapists are created equal either. Sometimes you have to try out a few before you find the best one for you. The important thing is to not give up.

I have suffered from depression my whole life. And I can attest to the fact that it's not something that you can just will yourself to overcome. If you had any other health problem, you'd see a doctor and possibly take medication. There's absolutely no shame in caring for yourself. I encourage you to do that.

LA44 posted 1/23/2014 11:00 AM

Leafan (so am I), I remember you from a few montha ago. I am sorry to read about your depression. Please do get some help. A combination of meds, counselling and exercise will be a big step in your personal healing.

I know you want some encouragment for your M but I think people are being protective of you right now. You have great advice here. Trust builds over time. She needs to keep making deposits and fill that bank up!

She has some work to do. I hope she is in IC. This would be a "high cost behavior" for me. Get in IC or leave. Those were my words to my H almost one year ago today.

We are here. Keep posting.

Leafan1976 posted 1/23/2014 12:10 PM

Thanks guys. I have an appt next week with my doc. I was on meds for a while. But the expense was too great. Well we slumped financially (I am self employed/own small business) so the $150 month was steep.

This is also the case with any counseling/therapy. Not in the cards for either of us. Money is too tight for that.

I probably should have just let things be today and not posted this topic. I was more curious about a reasonable time to R. I didn't want to throw a pity me party. Lol.

Anyways........ Thanks again guys.

LA44 posted 1/23/2014 18:44 PM

Leafs, I didn't read your note as a "poor me" post in any way.

I don't want tpush the IC but speak to your Doc. He might be aware of some support groups that are free or close to it - or something indiv through the Y. You never know. Sometimes small biz owners have things available to them that are not well known. has been 13 months for us now. He owned it from day 1 and that was hard enough. There is still turmoil but better every month. What I say to others is, "turn down the volume" and watch the behavior. Her actions should scream, I am here for you.

As for posting her user name. I posted my H's but he didn't mind. Some people even have their partner's name as part of their sig. The thing is if she is not taking responsibility, the WS forum will call her on it.

Keep posting/deep breaths and always, go leafs go!

Leafan1976 posted 1/23/2014 18:54 PM

I am so torn on this site. Sometimes the advice is fantastic. Sometimes it feels like I'm being told there is no hope. Lol.

I honestly don't understand where all this anger came from recently. I know I have a temper, also rarely speak my mind. I think I'm just a frustrated person. I just wish so hard it would end/stop. That I would wake up one day and look at her and see the girl I fell in love with.

Kalliopeia posted 1/23/2014 18:59 PM

I don't believe anyone "MUST" reconcile for the children. Desperate and pathetic words.

What use is a traumatized BS with multiple d-days who gets re-traumatized to the point of depression, loss of hope, loss loss loss?

Children need stable emotionally stable parents. And if removing yourself from the emotional abuse of repeat affairs is what allows you to heal, then that is what you may need to do.

Nest2007 posted 1/24/2014 03:20 AM

Leafan76, I could have written your original post. Just know that how you feel is common, you are not alone in this painful journey.

eachdayisvictory posted 1/24/2014 07:22 AM

leafan, This is normal. I hear what you're saying about this site feeling supportive at times and hopeless at other times. I am in a space where I am trying to purposefully limit my time spent here to see how my mood is affected. I'm discovering that limits are helpful to me, kind of forces me to stay in my life a little bit more and allows me to think about other things when I didn't think it was possible.

Plus, every kind of person is on here - various stages of healing, anger, sadness, acceptance. So you really have to already have some self esteem and strength to take what you need from here and leave the rest.

It sounds like you're Canadian, so I just wanted to let you know that I see an IC that is covered by MSI - absolutely no cost or limits to sessions. I don't know how or why I got to see her, but the referral came from my family doctor - it was a long wait (7 months or so), but 100% covered. Maybe you can ask your family doctor about it?

$150/month is worth your life. I know that we have struggled with financing therapy as well, but we look at it as a medical necessity for life right now (my H and our MC is not covered by our benefits plan).

It's not a pity party for you, and I'm worried that you see it that way. Your mental health, anyone's mental health, is a very serious concern and something you can NOT do alone. If you're appendix burst, would you debate over whether or not to seek medical help or just let it kill you? My IC tells me this all the time, I fight a sensation of shame for taking meds for my PTSD and depression too - but I continue to fight. My kids are worth it, my loved ones are worth it, but most importantly, I am worth it.

Sending you support and hugs. From this thread, I hope the resounding message you hear is that you are truly not alone, and that there are amazing people out there that you have never met who genuinely want to help you. That blows my mind and I appreciate it a great deal. I need to know, especially at this time of recovery, that there are good, amazing, selfless people out there. And there are.

kenny55 posted 1/25/2014 13:58 PM

Have you contacted any Churchs in your area?s We offer free service to anyone in our community. It is part of our mission. Prayers to you.

Monsterslayer posted 1/25/2014 18:21 PM

We were both very committed to healing. We read many books, did personal development seminar (Choices), took Anne & Brian Bercht's Healing from Affairs Seminar and returned to Choices to coach. All within 1 year of Dday.

While we did lots of things right, we also made many mistakes (like most couples). There where times when one of us wanted to quit. But we didn't. 1 year after Dday we both saw hope, 2 years after Dday we know we would make it. Then just better and better. We still fight, probably more than we used to as that was part of our dysfunction. Things aren't perfect but we both know that if we could make it through what we did we can make it through anything.

It sounds like a long journey when you are in midst of it, but from the other side it seems much shorter.

Hope this encourages...

[This message edited by Monsterslayer at 6:22 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]

LA44 posted 1/25/2014 21:02 PM

T/j kind of!: Thx monster for that seminar info called, Choices. Never heard of it but will look into. Good for Leafan to know that if counselling is not possible right now there are other excellent but less $ options. So many solid books out there for less then $20 a pop as well.

End t/j

Monsterslayer posted 1/26/2014 03:29 AM

Choices is not about recovering from A's. It is a personal development seminar. What I learned is we both needed to be healthy in order for our marriage to be healthy. I needed to become healthy apart from my FWW before I could be healthy with her. And the same for her. This doesn't mean we separated. We were both intentional about working on our stuff. She worked on understanding why she made the choices she made as well as her contribution to the state of the marriage prior to the A. I worked on understanding what I needed in order to choose forgiveness and my contribution to the state of our marriage prior to the A. We learned to separate A issues from marriage issues and deal with them separately.

It's hard work on both sides of the coin but if both are committed it is possible., and you will have a better relationship than you ever imagined, even prior to the A. I know this to be true.

Take heart...

so_lost posted 1/28/2014 13:18 PM

I agree with most of the others. Your timeline for recovery starts once NC is established once and for all and your spouse is 100% committed to reconciliation. Since you've been jerked around with two DD and broken NC, I'd set some firm boundaries with yourself and your wife. What do you need from her to continue the M? What are your plans if she breaks NC again? And then stick to them. Roll out the 180 if needed. I think meds or a lot of exercise will help clear your head so you can figure out what you want and need...and then stand up for those things.

I too have struggled with depression off and on over the years. I think it's completely normal after an affair even three years out. Even though I think it's normal it doesn't mean you can't do something about it. Counseling, meds, exercise, sunshine...try them all!

As for trusting her again, it'll never be like it used to be. Blind trust is gone. If my FWH is going to be late, even though he texts me, I think about the A for a second. Or if he gets a lot of texts, I think about it. It sucks I'm still reminded of it but that's my life now. I do try to remember his demeanor now compared to then. He's not the same guy now he was back then. No red flags so I keep calm...and carry on:) I think depression makes it harder to let go of those damn triggers.

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