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Crazyman642 posted 1/24/2014 06:13 AM

I posted a while back titled hostage in the General Forum because I felt held hostage to the fact if I were to divorce my cheating WW then I will lose my kids. Yes, I will still be their father but like the majority of kids dad ends up on the back burner. I refuse to let her be the positive example for my kids as the only example she has shown is how to lie, cheat, and steal.

So now onto why I am posting today in Just found Out. Last night after she returned from our former MC and now her IC as I refuse to go back to the poison spouting witch doctor. She proceeds to tell me how it has been six months and that if it were her she would be getting over this by now. How this is all causing her so much stress that she has been thinking suicide. I feel this is just a way for her to blame me basically for her choice to cheat on me. Now mind you I still don't have the truth of the A. When it started, what really happened, etc. in the beginning when I confronted her (after lying to my face months before) she TT and I had to drag every piece out of her that I have to this day. How am I pretty sure I don't have the whole story, the other day I mentioned getting a copy of all her text messages from the time frame and I could easily sense the fear on her. So last night as she ragging on me for not getting better faster, I tell her I need to understand and she goes into her I have given you the reasons speech, which in my opinion is nothing more than a way to displace her taking any responsibility for her choices and she should deal with no consequences of it.

My question to all of you is am I right to be pissed off about her actions from last night? She cheats and I feel I am the one who has done something wrong. When I try to say I need to understand before I can forgive she says I will never understand and that basically I just have to deal with it. When I tell her that these are the ways I feel about it she defends the relationship (which she says she not) and makes me feel wrong for having my own way of dealing with all this. Basically I am angry and before I go back to her today and say something I want opinions on how to handle her today. I want to blow up on her, but realize it won't help. He did come home from the witch doctor with a couples weekend she wants to go to. The witch doctor found it for her. I don't have much faith in it.

Also if anyone lives in the northern VA area and knows a good IC they can recommend I really need to talk to someone, but am reluctant after the last MC basically made me feel that I am destroying my marriage, not the woman who choose to cheat on me.

Your thoughts?

Angry Crazyman.

scarednbroken posted 1/24/2014 06:21 AM

Just so you know. It isn't automatic anymore that kids go with mom. You can fight for custody. All you have to do is prove is kids will be better off with you. If she is suicidal and unstable then they are. The court will ask her to prove if she wants custody as well. I've been reading that courts have leveled the playing field as far as custody. Each parent has the burden of proof.

And yes. You are justified in being upset that she refuses to take responsibility for her actions. She made the decisions. Everyone here. Every post I've read. Says that the BS is not at fault. There is something in the WS that is broken.

Hugs for you and your kids.

MovingUpward posted 1/24/2014 07:20 AM

Getting the shaft on custody isn't automatic but to avoid it you might have to do leg work. Journaling your involvement over time is a great way to help proved that you aren't detached from your kids. School events, sport events, doctors appointments, school conferences, . . . . . are common ways to prove to a judge that you are involved with your kids' lives. If you haven't talked to an attorney about your rights and what to expect and how to set yourself up for the best outcome in a divorce then I would encourage you to do so. You don't have to file for divorce or a separation. You just need to have all the facts so that you don't go through life trapped or as a hostage.

If you are to reconcile then I think that you will probably need to find a counselor to help you through the pain and trust issues. You need to try to take healing steps. You don't want to stay at the point where you are and you don't need to be pushed to "get over it" If you get into counseling you will be better to fend off the pushing because you will get a clearer picture of where you are and what needs to get accomplished to be healed.

Merlin posted 1/24/2014 07:28 AM

Blameshifting is an art with some people. Your wife sounds like such an artist. And you are right to sniff the air and call 'bullshit'.

If you've not discussed the likely outcome of your children' residential custody post divorce with the best divorce attorney in your jurisdiction, now is the time.

I live in NJ. The best a man can hope for is 50/50 residential custody. And that's what the court decided. In reality it's 75/25 - me/ex as the kids don't like her, OM or her house. And that's okay.

Not ideal for children mind you, just as good as a 'broken home' is going to get.

'Staying together for the children' is bullshit and can be more toxic that shared custody. Kids are smart. They know what broken is.

So do what's best for them and you after you find out what your likely custody situation will be.

NeverAgain2013 posted 1/24/2014 07:33 AM

You're not a hostage.

Your kids are teenagers which means very soon, they'll be way too busy to spend much time with either parent because they'll be too busy with their friends, etc. etc.

Staying with someone you clearly despise, resent and have zero respect for is just creating a huge, dysfunctional family dynamic that's much more damaging to your kids than being a part-time father could ever be. They're also at an age where they can choose to stay with whomever they'd prefer. You're actually fortunate that they're not 5 and 7 years old and are old enough to work with you.

You're not a hostage, but your current situation is so completely unhealthy for everyone concerned that you're honestly not doing anyone any favors with this much animosity between you and your wife.

Yeah, she sucks for having broken the family, no doubt about it. And she also has a completely UNREMORSEFUL attitude towards you and your need to accept and heal. Hell, why WOULD you put in the effort to do that when you're being treated like a burden to her? Her disrespect for you shines through loud and clear.

I think the unhealthiest thing on earth to do is stay a 'hostage' in a marriage you clearly don't want to be in anymore (from the sounds of your original post in this thread), using your kids as your excuse. No kid wants to think their father was utterly miserable for YEARS and only stayed with their mother because of them.

crisp posted 1/24/2014 09:01 AM

If she threatens suicide, call 911. That will serve 2 purposes. One is it will probably stop her from using that threat as a weapon against you. Secondly, if it goes down the D route and parental fitness is a factor, it may help.

painfulpast posted 1/24/2014 11:37 AM

She's still up her own ass. Saying YOU should be over it? No, she doesn't get to say when your recovery ends. Besides, who is she to give advice to anyone on how to react to situations? She cheated, so clearly she isn't one to be telling others how to make decisions.

She isn't remorseful, at all. If the IC is a witch doctor (some are) then you should demand that she go to another. Demand REAL MC, not someone that will tell your wife she's right about everything.

Remember, ICs and MCs are people too. If this one has cheated, then he/she will be on the side of the cheater if recovery hasn't happened. Some have been cheated on, and will never see the work a cheater has done, if they haven't healed.

I would get away from any counselor saying that, less than 6 months in, the BS is wrecking the M by discussing the A. That's just Bullshit - with a capital B.

You won't get your kids every other weekend. It isn't the 70s anymore. You can get joint physical custody as well as joint legal custody. Your kids deserve better than a self-involved mother and a bitter, angry father. You can't fix the mother part, but you can fix you.

Broken homes really aren't the worst thing in the world, honestly. My father drank and abused my mother. Should she have stayed so we weren't in a broken home? Is seeing abuse and alcoholism and anger better than a broken home? No, I don't think so.

Your wife is mentally and emotionally abusing you. She refuses to acknowledge the pain she has caused, and for HER sake she wants you to shut up. It's all about her. Threatening suicide? That's emotional blackmail, and it's abuse. She's trying to shut you down.

If you want away from her, leave. See an attorney first so that you can see about getting joint custody from day 1.

Good luck - sounds like your WW is a real prize. So kind and considerate.

norabird posted 1/24/2014 11:47 AM

get your ducks in a row and file. You CAN do it and if you see a lawyer, they can surely advise re: how to give the best case for custody.

momentintime posted 1/24/2014 12:18 PM

She proceeds to tell me how it has been six months and that if it were her she would be getting over this by now

It is NOT her and she has no idea how you feel. She needs to button it. You will heal on YOUR schedule not hers or her IC. Frankly her opinion isn't worth crap.

jjct posted 1/24/2014 12:26 PM

Getting the shaft on custody isn't automatic but to avoid it you might have to do leg work.

Yeah, like imagine having a VAR on you - to record her manipulative suicide threats...

Skan posted 1/24/2014 14:47 PM

I'm going to second crisp, who got to it before I did.

If she mentions suicide or threatens it, call 911 immediately. Report it. 1) if it's true, she will get a mandated eval, possible psyc hold which will help. 2) if it's a lie, she'll still get all of the above and will learn to NOT pull this particular manipulative BS on you and possibly, on or in front of your children. 3) If it comes to divorce, well, if mamma is unstable then that's a point in your favor. Don't allow her to try to manipulate you or your children by pulling this particular card.

And as to her telling you what your timeframe for recovery is? I'd tell her, listen witch, you didn't ask me if it was OK for you to go screw some POSER. You don't get to TELL me when I need to get over it. And yeah, you might be over it by now, which just goes to show you how little you are invested in OUR marriage and family.

Crazyman642 posted 1/24/2014 16:24 PM

I guess it is missing somewhere. I have two biological children. 12 and "4". She only tells me the suicide crap after talking to the MC. I live in a very expensive area, which means she can't afford it and has no family support. She never does anything in front of the kids. Hell. We pretty much act like everything is fine. Even from the D stand point and the law where I live we have had LOTS of sex since I confronted her about the A, which kinda puts a legal issue into the D that I returned to the marriage after. She is doing a lot and acts remorseful, saying she knows what she has done, but she just seems to want me to pretend it didn't happen and just move on. This was primarily a EA with a PA aspect in pics and phone sex. According to her they never met. Two different states four hours apart. I have searched phone records and at no time was the to or from of the cells located near each other. But with all the TT I don't know what to believe anymore. Of course she will never admit to it because she knows that would be an instant D for me.
As for playing along for the sake of my kids. I travel and work odd hours for work. She will get custody, it maybe be on paper 50/50 but it won't work out. Now atleast whenever I am home I get to see them. I think all I really need for R is to feel like I have 100% of the truth. Just don't know if I will ever get it.

She texted later this afternoon and apologized for saying that stuff last night. With a lot more how sorry she is and how much she loves me stuff. I just wanna know where that was when she was with another dude for a year.

Just a bad day.

tushnurse posted 1/24/2014 17:49 PM


She is showing you who she is. WATCH. She is telling you who she is. LISTEN.

You are confusing true remorse with sorry I got caught. A mistake many of us make. Listen, you feel that you don't stand a chance of primary custody due to your job. Have you seen an attorney to vet that out? If not then you do not know.

Her manipulation is palpable. Reread your post then your response. She is abusive and is only sorry she was caught. I would be very very very suspicious of et and not believe anything that comes out of her mouth. One thing you have learned is cheaters lie and liars cheat. She is sayin just enough of the right things to give you hope that you can hang onto some sense of normalcy. Honestly I think a separation. Or a filing for D would be a huge wake up for her.

She created this shitstorm. You get to control the outcome if you don't want to be dictated to for R then take control and call her out. If you disagree so strongly with her IC then why is she still seeing her. If you feel like the victim
And the problem with the therapist then deman she see another. Not all therapists are created equal. Fond one who specializes in infidelity.

Step back and try to look at this as an outsider. You may find that you are tolerating too much.

Kelany posted 1/24/2014 18:16 PM

PM me, I'm in nova.

Crazyman642 posted 1/25/2014 08:08 AM


I tried to PM you but it won't let me for some reason. Please try to PM me.

Thanks Crazy.

Kiddingmyself posted 1/25/2014 09:35 AM

You have a pm

jb3199 posted 1/25/2014 12:23 PM

Of course she will never admit to it because she knows that would be an instant D for me.

Is it?

Look, if a PA is a dealbreaker for you, then so be it. Surely no from here is going to tell you that you have to stay.

But an affair was an instant dealbreaker for almost every member here....until they had it happen to them(raises his own hand). You say that you are D if it was physical, but you believe that you can R with 100% truth. What if the truth was that she had a PA?

If you are willing to still try to R after knowing that your WW had a PA, then it is your task to convey that to her. It is your job....if you choose to take convince her that it is the dishonesty and TT that will finish off this marriage that is on life support. Then the ball is in her court.

But be prepared to follow through. If you continue with what you have right now, then the marriage will eventually die. There is no way that you will be able to move forward successfully, if you always believe that there is more to uncover. And that part is her job. She has to rebuild the trust. And if she is unable to do that for whatever reason, then again, the marriage dies.

Ask yourself what your dealbreakers REALLY are.

7yrsflushed posted 1/25/2014 21:20 PM

As for playing along for the sake of my kids. I travel and work odd hours for work. She will get custody, it maybe be on paper 50/50 but it won't work out.
50/50 is pretty much the norm unless one of the parents doesn't want custody or has some serious documented issues. I know you mention work but is it possible for you to look for another job or transfer to another department that doesn't require as much travel. Not suggesting anything just asking the question. This is all stuff you will need to think about if D becomes an option for you. Your WW is still trying to rugsweep and that won't work. It also sounds like she has a crappy IC as well that knows nothing about A's. You may want to look into the 180 as a way to get yourself some clarity. You have to start thinking long term. As long as she continues to try to rugsweep you are both in this unspoken power struggle until one of you, most likely you, puts your foot down.

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