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Why? (vent)

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Softcentre posted 1/25/2014 13:13 PM

1. Why did I work so hard at R?
OK, I'm co-dependent, I get that and am working on it. But how come I was the one working so hard on R and not him? Why was I the one begging him to stay? Why was I the one being blamed for what he did? Why did I apologise for everything I've ever done wrong...and he didn't? Why didn't kick him out after in the first 5 months: on dday1 with COW? When I found out about all the porn? When he broke NC? When I found old flirty emails to another OW (my friend)? When he wrote a secret email telling COW he'd wait til it died down and them be back in touch? When he gaslighted me and manipulated our MC? When he wouldn't give me web details to my own bank accounts? When he finally admitted the PA? When I found out about the hidden debt? When I found out about the dating site profiles? When I found out about the secret email addresses? When he started being distant and getting fit again? When he refused sex? When he threatened to leave? Why? Why? Why?

2. Why did I wait so long to start digging?
He'd been more distant and critical and passively resistant since our eldest was born. This was when he started the flirting EA with my friend. Why didn't I see it? Why didn't I start digging then? He got much worse just after our second was born. This was when he met COW and started flirting with her. According to him, it took another 1.5 years to become a PA. In Nov 2011 I saw him quickly scroll away from a FB post from her. I asked him about it. He lied and I knew he was lying. Why didn't I chase it up harder? By then it had become a PA. I thought he 'just' fancied her. Why? Why didn't I see it? Why did I beat myself up for feeling suspicious? Why did it take seeing them flirt together at a wedding the following May for me to realise this was something serious. Why did I still think he just fancied her (albeit in an unhealthy way)? Why did it take til August for me to start digging? And why did I feel so awful for digging? Why, after gradually finding it all out, all by digging...did I still feel awful for digging and let him blame me for it?

3. Why didn't I cheat?
I had so may opportunities over the years and I didn't even have an EA. I have good boundaries and the nature of my job meant I maintain them well. I've never discussed my marriage with anyone of the opposite sex (until I had to tell my boss about the A and since have quickly disclosed to others, but no intimate or prolonged conversations). I figured that our M should stay in our M and not be discussed with others. Turns out he's discussed our M with women for years. I suspect that he has had EA's with other COWs and wonder if any of them got physical. We were each others one and only. Why did I pass up all the opportunities that men served on a plate to me? Why did I work so hard at staying faithful (and sometimes it was very hard work) whilst I felt so emotionally lonely in our M? Why not do it? Why not find out what I'd been missing? Why did he get to have all the 'fun'? And why do I still feel the need to be faithful?

And worst of bloody all...why do I still love him? Why can't I reach indifference?

Pass posted 1/25/2014 14:22 PM

Easy answers to all this shit, dude. You are honest, loving, and honourable.

The Arse: Not so much.

Nature_Girl posted 1/25/2014 14:40 PM

The answer to all your questions is the first sentence, "I am codependent".

The question for you to ask now is, "How do I rid myself of the codependent mindset?"

And that, my sister, is the $64,000 question that will change your life.

SusanR posted 1/25/2014 14:55 PM

Yup. We are having a snow storm today and WH just texted to see if everything was okay. I truly believe he thinks he deserves a 4th chance and he believes he won't cheat again. It is so damn hard to push him away.

After all I've been through the last 5 years, I really shouldn't have any hesitation to kick him to the curb. I'm still in love with the man I thought I married. Is this him? How can I possibly even consider giving him another chance to crush me? Why can't he just be an asshole so I can move on?

I am an alcoholic and I'm pretty sure I'm addicted to my marriage, too. This is way worse than giving up the booze. Everytime he contacts me, it rips the scab off! I think I'm strong enough to quit him at times and then he does something nice. I am sick to my stomach. I just want this pain to stop!

[This message edited by SusanR at 2:56 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]

careerlady posted 1/25/2014 15:16 PM

1. You're loving and codependent (like me)
2. You're a trusting codependent chump (like me)
3. You're a good human being who keeps their vows (I don't think NG meant only codependent people don't cheat in an unhappy marriage

As for the last one, you are loving but also don't know how to function without him because you are codependent.

Buy/download codependent no more. I'm reading it now. We can do it together

Softcentre posted 1/25/2014 15:55 PM

Yes, a lot of what happened before he left is about co-dependency.

I'm 'fine' without him. Life is much easier in many ways. I'm kind if at that point of, I'd love to never see him again and just get on with life. But we have children, so I see him every week. It hurts. It hurts a lot.

But I'm healthier than I was. Yes, I'm still open to R...but only if it means a healthy M. Early on, him just walking back would have been enough(yes, it makes me cringe now!). Now? I don't want that M we had before. I'd need:

- full no contact with OW and her friends
- a detailed apology
- openness about anything he still hasn't disclosed
- disclosure about everything during S
- admitting he is passive aggressive and getting IC for it...and not bailing
- emotional vulnerability
- transparency
- IC for me (can't afford it right now)
- months of actions showing remorse and maintaining it
- starting the M from new (dating and gradually progressing, new vows)

But I don't hold out hope that he either wants R or is capable of it. I want him to, but I'm looking at his actions and not seeing it. My fog is lifting.

Almost done with our M.

Nature_Girl posted 1/25/2014 16:06 PM

I cringe, too, when I think of what I used to tolerate & accept. It's disgusting. It's sad. I've forgiven myself, though, because I did what I needed to do to survive. I'm proud of my progress. YOu should be proud of your progress, too. I can read the change in you since you first joined.

Softcentre posted 1/25/2014 16:20 PM

Easy answers to all this shit, dude. You are honest, loving, and honourable.

The Arse: Not so much.


I'm hoping I can get through all this being less co-dependent but still keeping the good stuff.

One other why vent...

...Why on earth did I let him twist things round so that he put himself in the victimised spouse and I ended up taking on the ashamed/remorseful spouse?

Talk about a wayward projecting their own flaws onto their spouse! But I'm wise to that manipulation now.

Softcentre posted 1/25/2014 16:25 PM

I cringe, too, when I think of what I used to tolerate & accept. It's disgusting. It's sad. I've forgiven myself, though, because I did what I needed to do to survive. I'm proud of my progress. YOu should be proud of your progress, too. I can read the change in you since you first joined.

Thank you

This is me on one of my down days. There are a lot less of them and WH gets a lot less headspace than he used to. and my libido is coming back,which must be a sign I'm starting to move on? Mind you, no dating for me until I'm no longer married.

Ooh, did you see that? I thought about a positive non-married future!

Nature_Girl posted 1/25/2014 16:34 PM

Softcentre posted 1/25/2014 17:02 PM

Thank you NG, especially for a Dr Who ref.

Pass posted 1/25/2014 21:22 PM

...Why on earth did I let him twist things round so that he put himself in the victimised spouse and I ended up taking on the ashamed/remorseful spouse?

When you discovered his shitty behaviour, it put him on the defence, and he didn't like it. So he attacked. You don't view relationships as a battle, so you just didn't know how to react. I can relate to that, as can most of the people here.

Softcentre posted 1/26/2014 01:42 AM

Thanks Pass.

Ironically, he accused me of never being able to lose in an argument,of never agreeing to disagree. I actually think there was some truth in there.

You see we tended to argue over things that were important to me.

Things that were important to him tended to happen. He''d phrase something he wanted or wanted to do, not as a question, but a suggestion "I''m planning on doing such and such on Tuesday night" It was set up in such a way that if I disagreed, then I was the unreasonable one. Mostly what he wanted wasn''t an issue, so he got it.

Things that I wanted to do often didn''t happen. I now realise this was because of a couple of things:

Firstly, I tended to ask if I could do something. Mainly because I''m a SAHM and needed him to look after the children if I wanted to do something. I now realise that he assumed I''d look after the children, whereas I didn''t assume that he would. It was an unequal playing field and remains so (when he left he never even thought that he would have the children except on his time off during the week, regardless of my committments). Also, because I asked, rather than suggesting, it was easy for him to say no or find a reason why I couldn''t.

Secondly he would use a look of disgust when I did suggest doing something that he didn''t want me/us/him to do. He''d do this even as he would say that he didn''t mind or it was up to me. That look is designed to shame the person on the receiving end. And that, combined with telling me it was up to me, gradually, over the years, made me doubt my own judgement. I loved him, I didn''t want to disgust him, so usually things weren''t important enough to make an issue of.

But we did argue sometimes (nowhere near as often as he makes out - he''s a passive aggressive conflict avoider we didn''t argue much!) and it was when I refused to back down OR got so frustrated with his procrastination or emotional detachment that I chose to lash out.

In the second circumstances, I was fighting about the wrong thing to start with, and then get down to the core reason. He''d quickly say sorry to end the argument, promise to change, would do whatever job it was (often badly) but then nothing would change. If I tried to talk more about it, he''d get mad back. He always wanted me to apologise. And I often didn''t want to because I felt that I was fundamentally right. Well, I kind of was, but the way I handled it was not right and it gave him more ammunition for his resentment pile.

In the first circumstances, this is when we''d have the long arguments. He very rarely didn''t get what he really wanted. He really didn''t like it and would get sulky with me for days and passively resist a whole lot more. This is when I''d be accused of not being able to lose an argument. He did this even more when we were in false R.

I felt like I must be a horrible human being and wife. I thought I must be emotionally abusive. I wondered if I was BPD/NPD/sociopathic...thankfully the IC showed me that I wasn''t. I''ve got my own FOO issues that make conflict hard. I try to avoid until it boils up and explodes out...and WH used and exploited that to get his P/A projected anger fix. I''m learning to stop when I start getting angry and work out why and what''s really going on, what I''m really feeling and why. I don''t manage it all the time, but I''m getting better. Of course WH knows exactly what buttons to push.

Anyway...I''m learning that I''m not a horrible person. I do say sorry, I admit my mistakes etc, etc. But WH doesn''t!

He admitted once in MC that he never believes that he''s wrong. He doesn''t care if others agree or not, he knows he''s right! He''s quite happy to say sorry to end an argument, but not because he believes he''s wrong.

Whereas I often thought I was in the wrong. Thought I was becoming like my emotionally abusive dad. Thought I must be awful to make a man who doesn''t feel anger (WH) argue. Hated myself for it....because I just wanted a loving relationship and didn''t understand how I was being manipulated, so I blamed myself. But couldn''t let WH knowthat because I couldn''tbe emotionally vulnerable with him.

Until DDay.

After DDay I knew I had to risk everything and let him in to my most vulnerable parts, because then maybe he''d feel able to reciprocate. I''ve told him things I''m ashamed of, scared of....I confessed like a WS, hoping he''d do the same. He didn''t. He resisted and blameshifted. He targeted me when I''d taken all my armour off. I was an easy, soft target. So I found myself defending myself, working on changing myself,working at the M...while he did nothing, except pretend remorse and get ready to leave when he realised I wasn''t going to rugsweep.

Ironically, working on myself made me stronger, made me not accept his blameshifting, made me not rugsweep. Got me to IC and made me realise I'm not a harriden. His manipulation backfired there!

[This message edited by Softcentre at 1:44 AM, January 26th, 2014 (Sunday)]

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