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3rd date with O.L.D guy

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ruinedandbroken posted 1/26/2014 21:21 PM

Met this really nice guy on OLD. Too bad I think I'm going to have to break it off. :(

A big part of his marriage ending was that he cheated on his wife and left her. He seems to have done a lot of introspection and has made a lot of positive changes. He really seems to have learned from the experience and is very remorseful. He is really respectful toward me and is not pushy and he really seems to genuinely like me.

But I just can't do it. I can't date someone who has done this. It hits too close to home for me. So now I have to break it off somehow.

I feel so crippled by my fear and emotions sometimes.

Williesmom posted 1/26/2014 21:22 PM

((R&b))

I get that. I don't think I could do it either.

nowiknow23 posted 1/26/2014 21:30 PM

((((r&b))))

cmego posted 1/26/2014 21:35 PM

Yup, I had this happen too. I finally told him that I deserved to be with someone I was comfortable with…and so did HE. He also deserved to be with someone that was more sympathetic to his past. He took it well.

finallymefirst posted 1/26/2014 21:56 PM

That would be too triggery for me now, but maybe in a few years. If he were the kind of ws that was truly remorseful and wanted to reconcile, but it was a deal-breaker for the bs. Someone who really felt the loss and consequences of his betrayal.. That sounds too Pollyanna lol..... Ok that would be a no.

(((R&B))) just take a few deep breaths and be honest with him.

HardenMyHeart posted 1/26/2014 21:57 PM

I feel so crippled by my fear and emotions sometimes.

So sorry for the pain you are going through.

It's important to ask yourself; how long are you going to allow the affair to define yourself and the decisions you make going forward? I completely understand what you are saying and your reasons, but it's something to think about before breaking things off.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 10:01 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

better4me posted 1/26/2014 22:11 PM

(((randb)))

I think for me, it would all depend on what kinds of "growth" he's had since then...and maybe one can't tell that by date #3 or #4 or #16.

On the other hand, that thing we used to say; "once a cheater..." would be going through my head too...ugh. Sorry this is happening to you.

lostandhopless posted 1/27/2014 01:29 AM

I may be shallow, but for me it would be a deal breaker also...
I don't think I could ever fully trust that person and that is not fair to either of us..JMO

newnormal posted 1/27/2014 06:03 AM

XH was former WH. He talked a good game of growth: put God first, had insight iNto why he married the wrong woman, made amends with his son. But all his good deeds in hindsight were just mirroring my coaching to him. He never really changed (and still hasnt, based on how he's treating our kids now).

Do you really want to interrogate any prospective date about his mental state? Its just not worth it.

cayc posted 1/27/2014 06:19 AM

I appreciate that we tiptoe around this sometimes because as part of SI we experience WS who become truly introspective, demonstrate growth and repair their M's.

Asking me to accept that someone is a fWS and has remained faithful in their marriage post-A is an easy thing to do, my mind is not troubled by it. Asking me to have sympathy for them in that context is easy too.

In other contexts though, I experience extreme cognitive dissonance because I interpret it as a person who when their back is up against the wall will take the easy way out no matter the collateral damage, no matter the promises made before God/country/law/family, no matter the loyalty owed. And that's where I fail to be sympathetic or willing. Not just for dating, but close friendship, doing business ... This isn't a waywards are bad people, betrayers are good people thing. This is a metric I use to bring peace to my mind and be content. It relieves me from living with doubt. It's a self protective move for sure, but one that I think is good for me given what I know now about people's behavior in general, my reaction to it/ability to handle it.

I suppose my opinion may change in the future but I'm not troubled by my opinion, I come by it honestly, and I'm good with living by it.

phmh posted 1/27/2014 06:36 AM

I usually tiptoe around this as well, but this:

It's important to ask yourself; how long are you going to allow the affair to define yourself and the decisions you make going forward? I completely understand what you are saying and your reasons, but it's something to think about before breaking things off.

made me so angry in a blame the victim sort of way that I had to respond.

After all the reading and research I've done on real, sustained change, I will never date a "former" wayward. It's not because I'm not healed -- it's because I make smart bets about my life. No, you never know 100% about people (though I suspect some day in the future, there will be a way to tell if someone has the likelihood of being a cheater -- either through genetic markings or fMRI or something we can't conceive of now.) People rarely make changes about who they are fundamentally. They can fake it for a while, but usually fall back into old patterns. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and just look at how many people have multiple D-Days, even after what they thought was True R, or how many people gave a "former" wayward (someone who cheated in a previous relationship) a chance, only to find out that they weren't special and the cheater cheated again?

But, would you say the above sentence to a person who refused to date a "former" rapist? Or let a "former" animal abuser pet-sit for them?

There are plenty of good, honest, faithful people out there, and I don't think it's too much to hold out for one of them.

(((ruinedandbroken))) Do not allow anyone to try to make you feel bad about yourself for making this choice. You're allowed to want to continue to date or not date anyone you want, for any reason.

Sad in AZ posted 1/27/2014 06:55 AM

IDK; how many times have we heard about a member being badly hurt by a cheating former BS? It's more about the person than the act. And I think it's a huge stretch to compare former waywards to rapists and animal abusers--unless they are sociopaths. To say that a wayward can't change is doing a serious disservice to many the former waywards on this site--and not just the ones who stayed M to their BS; some were just in the wrong marriage or couldn't salvage the relationship.

The thing is I couldn't know someone well enough to make an informed judgement on this after 3 dates; I'd certainly know whether or not I'm attracted or interested, but to know the person's deepest personality traits? I don't think so.

You have to feel comfortable about dating someone, so you're making a good choice for yourself, but if you found out about his past on the first or second date, why did you go to the third?

SeanFLA posted 1/27/2014 10:31 AM

I don't think you tried not to let your ex's affair define you on this one at all. You gave it a shot...three dates and it's just something you cannot get past. I would have no issue with ending it now than dragging it on only knowing the inevitable. It's what dating is all about anyhow. Trying on different people to see which one fits.

His past is just that...his. These are his ongoing consequences of cheating then leaving his fBS. It doesn't just end with his divorce and some perceived personal introspect. Like our scars that we will carry the rest of our live's, that is his. And yes most of us will carry this much of our lives because it's been a life altering event for us. I wouldn't be interested in going through it twice that's for sure. His past is not attractive to you. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work. Don't feel terrible about it at this stage. It's early on in the game for you with him and you truly don't know how "remorseful" or "enlightened" he actually is. His representatives are still there dating you and there could be a chance he's saying what he thinks you want to hear knowing you're a BS. After all, he's been to this rodeo before and is well aware of the damage it does to another's life. For him to tell you..."it was a long time coming in his previous marriage" is BS and frankly I would be insulted. To me that's still blameshifting and he's trying to downplay his past because he's interested in you. What I would ask him is if he's told any of his other dates that he's a WS and what their reactions were. My guess is a few of them ran too. And he's probably learned what to say because of that.

I actually think about my exWW dating (don't know if she is, don't care) and what she's telling anybody about her infidelity or about me. What she did to me did not fall under "it was a long time coming". It fell under..."I am a broken validation seeking little girl inside and my ego got the better of me. But I'd rather run and destroy my BH's life than work on my own FOO issues".

I would never date a WS learning what I know now. Best prediction of future behavior is past behavior. I don't think people change their zebra stripes all that much when you've reached our age I'm sorry. He's admitted to what he's capable of. To me his past is the grand-daddy of all red flags.

Too many other good men out there to try on believe me.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 11:12 AM, January 27th (Monday)]

HardenMyHeart posted 1/27/2014 10:35 AM

But, would you say the above sentence to a person who refused to date a "former" rapist? Or let a "former" animal abuser pet-sit for them?

Personally, I would not compare former WS's to rapists or animal abusers.

We are all victims of our fears and emotions. I believe it is important to look beyond those fears so that we make choices based on wisdom, instead of fear. We can then feel more confident that our decisions are derived from our strengths, not our weaknesses.

There are plenty of good, honest, faithful people out there, and I don't think it's too much to hold out for one of them.

And some of them may be reformed WS's. There are a number of them right here on SI.

Dawn58 posted 1/27/2014 10:47 AM

What I can share is that my STBX was married three times and I know that he cheated on the last two wives and all bets are on that he cheated on the first one. He never expressed any remorse or took responsibility for any of the affairs.

For me, it's too much of a trigger to get involved with a man who was not faithful. I only had one conversation with a man who admitted to cheating on his wife, went on about how he wasn't getting enough sex at home and that was it for me. Never talked to him again.

We have to do what honors us. We have to do what feels right to us. We are here to support each other in finding our own truth.

ruinedandbroken posted 1/27/2014 10:59 AM

if you found out about his past on the first or second date, why did you go to the third?

I went on the third date because I really didn't have as clear of a picture on the first two.

I absolutely believe that there are WS out there that have learned from their experiences and have worked on themselves and have made their marriage and spouse a priority. None of us are perfect. I've read the WS board a few times and I think it is amazing how some of the WS have such empathy for their BS. (I think it's amazing because my EX had none. Still doesn't.)

The issue here is more me than him. I don't doubt that he may have learned from what he did. It is very possible. I just don't think *I* can do it. It triggers a lot of pain in me and I haven't been able to get past it. I think it would be easier for me to see past an infidelity where he tried to work it out with his wife than an infidelity where he left his wife. My xh left and I haven't been the same since. If I had to guess what Hell is like, I would say that was it. It's just too much of a trigger for me. Doesn't feel right.

nomoreplease posted 1/27/2014 11:16 AM

I guess I believe in personal growth and second chances. For me it would be a much bigger deal on how they talk about it, the introspection they have done, and the changes they have made. I read in the wayward section enough that I believe I understand what a remorseful FWS looks and sounds like, and would probably feel safer dating someone who speaks of being a FWS like they do than dating someone who states that they never cheated. Remember waywards lie, so just because someone says they didn’t cheat doesn’t mean it is true and just because someone hasn’t cheated in the past doesn’t mean they won’t in the future.

Big disclaimer - I have no idea about this situation other than this one line so none of this may actually apply, it is just my take on it. So for example:

XH was former WH. He talked a good game of growth: put God first, had insight iNto why he married the wrong woman,…
This one line has more red flags in it, from my perspective, than the person being a former wayward.
I have no objection to putting God first, but my XWW used God to justify her A and then used God to justify rug sweeping. From my perspective, someone who truly puts God first doesn’t really talk about it, because they don’t need to, it shows through in their actions and anyone who does talk a lot about it is doing it for a reason (avoiding responsibility, feeling better about themselves, etc.).
Anyone who talks about insight into ‘marrying the wrong woman’ (or man in my case) as reason to having an A would be an instant deal breaker for me, it is not owning their shit and blaming the M for their A. I get marrying the wrong person as reason for being D, but they better have way better insights into why they were wayward and growth they have done based off of that.
I absolutely believe that there are WS out there that have learned from their experiences and have worked on themselves and have made their marriage and spouse a priority. None of us are perfect. I've read the WS board a few times and I think it is amazing how some of the WS have such empathy for their BS. (I think it's amazing because my EX had none. Still doesn't.)
Sounds like a similar view to mine.
The issue here is more me than him. I don't doubt that he may have learned from what he did. It is very possible. I just don't think *I* can do it. It triggers a lot of pain in me and I haven't been able to get past it.
I get this, and I don’t think anyone would blame you for walking away. Heck, I’m dating someone right now that said something on our last date that really triggered me (not even former wayward). It is something I will need to discuss with her (probably multiple times) in order to understand if I’m ok with where she is coming from (if I can even get there). Have you tried to discuss this with him?

SeanFLA posted 1/27/2014 11:23 AM

I

think it would be easier for me to see past an infidelity where he tried to work it out with his wife than an infidelity where he left his wife

Yes those are two huge differences I believe in also. And like you I unfortunately also experienced the later with an unremorseful WW. So it's the only experience I have to go on. I could count on two fingers how many times I heard "I'm sorry" out of her mouth. I never saw one tear out of her. I didn't get to even make the decision to stay or leave. So yeah my perception is probably a bit skewed I'll admit. And yes her actions have defined me to an extent. Who wouldn't be.

sparkysable posted 1/27/2014 13:20 PM

I could never date someone who cheated on his wife. I don't care what people say about how people can change, etc. In my opinion, people are who they are.

cissi posted 1/27/2014 16:12 PM

I could never date someone who cheated on his wife. I don't care what people say about how people can change, etc. In my opinion, people are who they are.

I don't think this is true. If you are saying people are who they are from a certain age on, perhaps. But, I have done things in my early years that I would NEVER think of doing now.

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