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3years later and I'm still suffering

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Leafan1976 posted 1/27/2014 09:41 AM

So as you know my story, It's been 3 years since DD, a year later more truth and depth if the A came out (DD2???) then another year later NC was broken.

It's safe to say I am still a mess. I am starting to wonder if we can make it through this. I Love her so much. I try hard to be happy. But it's so hard at times. I know it must be hard for her to deal with the guilt. But I don't know how to deal with the pain in a proper way.

I have told her I forgive her....... But she recently said I didn't actually forgive her. That if I did I wouldn't throw it in her face anymore when we fight. Maybe she's right. Maybe I don't know what forgiveness is ??

One thing I constantly struggle with is triggers. They are everywhere. Anytime I am watching tv and an affair is mentioned. Trigger. Music = Trigger certain dates = trigger
I find I am constantly realizing how many memories we have that are now shadowed by this A,

Now I find that I think maybe I am going to be the one to destroy this family. If I can't get control of my emotions. Learn to live in the now, if I can't find a way to stop triggering, it's going to me who runs away.

I have always tried so hard to make her feel loved, If I'm home I have always let her sleep in and I wake with the kids. If I'm home she rarely has to get up to get something, I always get it for her. I cook and clean a lot, possibly more then she does.
I used to like doing all this for her. I loved treating her like a princess. She was my princess. But lately doing all these things fill me with bitterness and anger, something I never vocalize unless I snap. I constantly say one thing in my head but never actually vocalize it.

I know I am suffering depression again,(doc appt tomorrow) but I don't know if I've have felt this low before. Yes I have been angrier, hate was more dominant before. But this feeling of down, low, self hate, I haven't felt this way since I was a teen.

Sorry. I guess I just needed to vent a little.
But I would like to know what forgiveness means to you??

Morhurt posted 1/27/2014 09:52 AM

First, I am so sorry for your pain and is totally understandable. As for forgiveness, I thought about it a lot in the first few months, I read about it, talked to H about it, worried and fretted about it. And then I realized, it will either happen some day (in the far future) or it won't, but it isn't a requirement for R to me or my H. So I let it go. It's gone. The pressure is gone.

I think now about us, our communication, boundaries, love etc. who cares if I forgive him? I'm not resentful, I share my feelings but I find if I do it often then I rarely end up "throwing the A in his face".

If/when you share your triggers with her, is she loving and comforting? Does she help you through it? It is very hard to allow myself to be vulnerable with my H after what he did but I find it's the only way to build intimacy for us.

Please communicate how you feel with your W, do often and try to do it without anger.

I'm so sorry for your pain.

sudra posted 1/27/2014 09:59 AM

You probably haven't forgiven her if you "throw it in her face." If you still talk about it, that's different. Which do you think it is?

However... You've not had an extended period since Dday 1 without more hurt with the TT and break in NC.

And... she doesn't sound very remorseful from this post. It would be VERY hard for me to forgive someone who didn't act remorsefully.

I get that forgiveness is for the BS's benefit but it's so much easier when the WS is helpful and not continually and repeatedly hurtful.

It seems like she's way too focused on you forgiving her and not enough on fixing herself.

Leafan1976 posted 1/27/2014 10:07 AM

Sorry. Don't get me wrong. She does display remorse. She has spent a great deal of time here as well. She is trying.

Maybe I forgive the actual A, but not all the lies, or the newest broken NC ?? I guess that is possible right.

sudra posted 1/27/2014 11:58 AM

I just read your previous posts.

Your wife still says she loved the OM.
She wants to be in contact with him again.
She wouldn't give you access to her accounts just two months ago.
She did not have IC.

Gently, this is not remorse. She may have done a few things but my guess is they were the minimal easy things, not the hard work of finding out her whys and really seeking to change.

Of course you're still suffering. I stand by my first post in this thread.

sisoon posted 1/27/2014 17:24 PM

Gently, I think you're expecting your W to heal you. She can't. You have to heal yourself.

Skimming your recent posts, I see a reluctance to stand up for yourself and a belief that you never can heal. You're acting as if your doomed to suffer. That makes it very hard to get out of suffering mode.

The way to heal is to figure out what you need and want and ask for it. At some level, in some way, you need to define your requirements for R and know that you have the strength to walk if your WS won't meet your requirements.

Your W sounds like she won't meet your requirements. You won't end your M, and I think you're blaming her for that. But you have responsibility for yourself - sticking around in the hope that she gets remorseful is an option you can choose - but don't blame her for your choice.

Recognize that you have to choose between 2 options, both of which are lousy. You have to stay with an unremorseful WS or you have to leave the woman you love.

What would you like to change about yourself - because you (and inanimate objects) are the only things you can change.

Are you in IC? Have you considered doing the 180?

Brandon808 posted 1/27/2014 20:31 PM

Now I find that I think maybe I am going to be the one to destroy this family.
Gently Leafan1976 it sounds like you because your WW has remorse (or what you perceive as remorse) you somehow feel obligated to R.

Guess what?
The A can be a dealbreaker even if the WS is perfectly remorseful (if there is such a thing).
The A can be a dealbreaker if the WS does everything the BS asks.
The A can be a dealbreaker simply because for you it is a dealbreaker.

That does not mean you're going to be the one to destroy the family. The family was already destroyed with the A and some things we do in life cannot be taken back.

If that's the case for then it just is.

Leafan1976 posted 1/28/2014 08:47 AM

Sisoon ..... I feel like you hit the nail on the head here. So much of what you said make complete sence to me. I do have a lot of difficulty standing up for myself, always have. I also feel you are right. I am acting like I'm doomed to suffer. But I think that stems from a lifetime of suffering, I also think I need to figure out how to deal with my anger. It's the single biggest factor that prevents us from R -

I think my expectations of what she needs to be are too high. My W has never been a perfect little housewife. So how can I expect her to become something she isn't. Besides I have spent a great deal of our M flip flopping on this. I tell her I enjoy spoiling her, taking care of her, then I will flip out one day that I feel like she does nothing. The poor woman must be so confused. I mean I confuse myself at times.

I think you are right again. I do only have 2 choices.
No idea what is best for everyone involved. I am a selfless man, Christ maybe I'm just barely a man. I can't be firm in any decision. I have zero self confidence. I feel worthless, unappreciated, and constantly disrespected not just by her. By most people in my life.

I guess those are the things I'd like to change the most. I'm hoping that I can get some meds from the dr today and honestly figure out a course to healing myself.

Counciling is not doable for financial reasons. Maybe I should check myself into a hospital saying I'm suicidal. I think the Gov here will offer free Counciling then. Lol.

What is "the 180" ???

GotMyLifeBck2013 posted 1/28/2014 09:04 AM

"But she recently said I didn't actually forgive her."

She's justifying going after the OM again. Has nothing to do with you. You need to get to MC, and straight up lay down the boundary in front of MC that if she contacts once more you're done and the marriage is over.

Then start the 180 all over again. If you want to reconcile great, but you're most likely in a false R if she's contacting the OM.

Reconciled is reconciled. It's not 95% of the time, or when the betrayed spouse triggers and has a bad day, or when the going gets tough you run to the OM. Reconciled is 100%. Just like owning the affair. She can use whatever excuse she likes right now, but she's ignoring her marriage again.

Violating boundaries has nothing to do with you bringing up the affair or not. She could just as easily sit in front of a MC and tell them you're hurting her by reminding her of the affair and not forgiving. Then you can work through how to forgive with a pro. Instead she broke NC and is blaming you.

Enforce the consequences.

Brandon808 posted 1/28/2014 09:19 AM

The title of your thread is somewhat telling. "3years later..." as if that was your last dday, last TT, last NC. It wasn't. You're not 3 years out. You're not even 1 year out. You had a broken NC which your WW isn't remorseful about. You've had defensiveness and dealing with feelings about OM. Seriously that is not conducive to healing. All of that undermines R.

So how have you convinced yourself you're only 3 years out when each new event, each new revelation just resets the clock on healing? And it doesn't just affect healing. Trust becomes exponentially harder to rebuild with new ddays and broken NC.

stillsad1970 posted 1/28/2014 09:24 AM

Hugs first.
Secondly, we live in this FABULOUS country where we have health care that's free and outlets we can use at anytime. Go to your Dr. And ask for a psychologist or social worker, they are covered under OHIP.psychiatrists are not. Also you can walk into any mental health institute, and stay at the minimum for 72 hrs.
Ironically it's
Mental Health Awareness Day in Canada, use it. We are very lucky to have this.
If you dont mind me saying, reading your name, Leafan, I'm figuring you live or lived in the GTA. the team you're rooting for could be a HUGE factor in some of your BLUES.That was a bit if comedy relief for you.
We will survive this, but it sucks.
Hugs again!

LA44 posted 1/28/2014 09:56 AM


Firstly and most importantly what stillsad said...

we live in this FABULOUS country where we have health care that's free and outlets we can use at anytime. Go to your Dr. And ask for a psychologist or social worker, they are covered under OHIP.psychiatrists are not

I know you have been asked many times about getting into IC (I have asked a couple times myself). Please ask your Dr. tomorrow/tell him what you need and ask him to direct you to a psych or social worker. The meds and the therapy together are key for you right now.

Also, it has NOT been 3 years as Sudra pointed out. I read just a couple months ago where she was thinking out loud that perhaps she and OM could be friends now. W.T.F.?!!!

Sisoon nailed it. Again.

The way to heal is to figure out what you need and want and ask for it. At some level, in some way, you need to define your requirements for R and know that you have the strength to walk if your WS won't meet your requirements.

What do you NEED from her?
Do you have a timeline from her? Do you have truth?
What are your deal breakers?
When you come to her and say, I am hurting from this trigger, do you tell her? If so, what is her response? Because if its, "Look. Honey. I love you. I said I was sorry." That just doesn't cut it. It's not enough.

Has she read the books, How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair? How about Not Just Friends?

That would be a REQUIREMENT for me. Here honey, Read!

I have always tried so hard to make her feel loved, If I'm home I have always let her sleep in and I wake with the kids. If I'm home she rarely has to get up to get something, I always get it for her. I cook and clean a lot, possibly more then she does.

I would like so much to read that while you were doing any of the wonderful things you noted above that you walked into the bedroom to find her reading one of these books.

t/j: And for the record, the Leafs are in 4th and closing. Do not mess with Leafs Nation!
end t/j

sisoon posted 1/28/2014 12:18 PM

For info on the 180, look at Healing Library, BS FAQs #11. There's also a good thread in JFO.

Don't worry - you are man enough. You've just lost touch with your right and ability to stand up for yourself. You can change that - doing the 180 helps, and counseling through your national health insurance could be very useful to you.

You won't get through your pain unless you take actions. You can do it!

Leafan1976 posted 1/29/2014 10:45 AM

So got my meds now. Hope it helps. As for Counciling, the waiting list is average 8 mths here. So won't be doing that anytime soon.

I read through the 180 description. I wish I had of read that years ago. I feel like it's kinda late to do a 180. My wife and I have made a lot of progress. She has answered any question I've had, I don't think there is a chance of it being anymore honest.
If anything I worry she isn't being honest with herself. I think my biggest fear is that one day 10 years from now she will bump into the guy and it will jar up old feelings.

Leafan1976 posted 1/29/2014 10:45 AM

Also. Wanted to thank you all. Your encouragement means a lot. Especially when I'm so down.

devasted30 posted 1/30/2014 05:40 AM

I hope you got put on the waiting list to get some counselling. 8 months is a long time to wait, but if you had been put on it when this all happened, you would have been going now for over 2 years. And in our great country, there are many options for help in this area. Make the effort to find it. It's there if you look. You just need to talk to the right people.
There is really nothing anybody can say to get you through this because all situations are different but we can tell you truths -as we see it - and it does sound like everyone who has commented so far is right in what they are saying. It sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place. I wish we could tell you things will work out, but I don't think the way things are right now that they will. Something needs to change and it must be YOU. It's hard. It is very hard, but to make life enjoyable again sometimes you need to do the hard work first.

still-living posted 1/30/2014 06:01 AM


I highly recommend IC. This is trauma. ICs will assist you with working on you.

lilmonkey posted 1/31/2014 10:43 AM

Leafan1976 - Here for you. I agree with what everyone else has been saying - there has been a corruption of sorts with the R (break of NC, addmitted feelings for the OM, defensiveness) which makes you second guess yourself.

When I had a similar issue (my wBF at first refused to NC because they had been friends for so long), I started to second guess myself too. It made me feel weak, like he was in power, because he was calling all the shots even though it was my turn.

I am now in a very good place in R, and the reason your thread really got to me was because you wonder what forgiveness means to others. I recently (about 2 days ago) told my wBF that I forgive him. HOWEVER, it does not mean I trust him any better than I did a week ago, nor does it mean that he can break NC and have less limitations. Your wife is showing signs of defensiveness if she gets upset with you for "throwing it in her face". You are still hurt. You forgive her actions (you understand it happened, and you no longer look at her like a monster), but it doesn't mean the idea of the A hurts any less.

Here is a little excerpt from wikipedia that defines forgiveness, and separates it from condoning or R:

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as revenge, with an increased ability to wish the offender well. Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offence from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).

Leafan1976 posted 2/1/2014 08:16 AM

Thank you. That post actually helped me clear up a few thoughts. Maybe I can forgive, in that sence of the term.

LA44 posted 2/1/2014 09:44 AM

Glad you got some meds. But pls get on the waiting list for IC Leaf. I am in Canada too - and in a very small town and we certainly did not have to wait 8 months for IC.

Take care.

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