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Were they truly remorseful or did u fool yourself into thinking they were the first time? What was the excuse the second time around? This is my greatest fear! What are the red flags of a repeat offender? How did they sneak around the second time? How many years before the 2nd?

In my situation, the 2 days were 9 years apart. I do believe my WH was remorseful the first time. He confessed it to me 4 years after it happened. He didn't have to, I never would have known. BUT. Clearly the remorse didn't stick. We totally rugswept, and it backfired big time. We neglected us, became very child centered and in fact had 3 more children, didn't tend to our own issues or the marriage.

The second affair, he initially blamed me and the marriage for causing. That was 6 months ago. We have both had about 5 months of IC and 4 months of MC. I see him working hard, finding his real why and how, and owning what he did. I was and am surprised at how hard he is working, and how long he has been doing it for. Initially I told myself, it will be two weeks until he is back to being all about him again.

For his 2nd affair, he managed to conduct it by having sex in the car in a parking lot, for 20 minutes at a time, and telling me he got out of work late. Very plausible in his profession. They would communicate via a secret email acct.

The main reason I chose to stay and try the second time was that I realized, in large part due to SI, that we had never done the work after Dday 1. I needed to be able to tell my kids that I had done all I could before I divorced.

Hope this helps. ((Phoenixrise))

Yes I believed he was R but a DD2 confirmed he regretted getting caught , not R. It was 2and half years after DD1 but I'm pretty sure it never stopped, that was just the day I found out it was still ongoing. How he did.it? Just found a different way to communicate with ow. It was texts, he changed to emails because they only show as data usage on the phone bill, which.is how.I caught him the first time. Bill showed her number a gazillion times. Plus he just lied when I asked if he was still talking to her. He just got better at hiding his emotions and became an excellent actor.

I don't know how to count my d days. Or i don't always count the same way.

t/j I am going to tell you my story of my d days.

My 1st d day was devastating. (duh) Then about 3 months into my healing and staying after d day (i do not call that time reconciliation; daily i was choosing to stay and trying to figure out what he had done and see what he was going to do to heal himself), my WH contacted marriedOW to tell her that he was done with her and was staying with me. If this had been a no contact letter that we had agreed upon, that would have really helped my healing. But instead, he contacted her via telephone on his first international business trip- and really the first moments when he wasn't on total transparency and lock down. I was home weathering the doubts and struggles of him being gone and he was calling her. So I think of this as my 2nd d day.

d day 3 comes probably in MC about 7 months later. I confront him on finding out about her upcoming travel to our country- which had initially coincided with a trip of ours to the same city. I thought I had this information that he wouldn't have, right? no contact and all that, right? Well, actually he had started emailing her again a few weeks before. He needed to see how she was doing because so much was in flux in her life. ah poor thing. And no one would be hurt, right? i wasn't going to find out, right? So almost separated in MC office. He told the truth on confrontation, and MC told him how wrong he was to do this. And he finally agreed to get into some real IC. (another story, but he did do IC after d day, but really band aid kind of stuff)

d day 4 (d day 2 in my sig line) comes after he reads not just friends and talks in IC about a phone sex A early in our M. He said reading NJF made him realize that would be viewed as an A by me and other folks.

end t/j

now to your questions with my hx (and numbered d days) as background.

Were they truly remorseful or did u fool yourself into thinking they were the first time?

He was sorry for what he did and getting caught between d days, but he was having a hard time getting to remorse. I didn't think we were in R for much of the time involved in the d days above. I saw the regret, but skeptical about the remorse.

What was the excuse the second time around?

2-Closure

3-checking on her, seeing how she was doing, can't she still be my friend?

4-finally figuring his shit out (not his excuse, but my interpretation)

What are the red flags of a repeat offender?

2- i was too nervous about his travel, and he told me quickly (though not immediately; he waited to talk to his IC first) on return

3-again out of the blue- i figured out by sleuthing intel on her

4- my spidey senses were finally working. i was sure there was something else because of how he was behaving. i asked and got a confession. and this was really old stuff

How did they sneak around the second time?

1- d day one- they used bberry messenger and a fake email account to stay in touch. their actual pa events were trips to other cities

2- out of town business travel to contact

3- no new fake email but very careful system of giving her the okay to email him first, and only using his work email when he was at work. and more thorough deleting of messages.

4-n/a

How many years before the 2nd?

2- 3 months

3-about 10 months from d day

4-14 months from d day

I am not sure these are the kind of d days to which you refer. To my knowledge, WH and marriedOW have not seen each other since d day. For the red flags, i really think your sense of your WS. For me, any behavior that smells of pre d day 1 behavior, will get an investigation. If your gut tells you something is off, listen. I didn't before the first d day. and now I am always checking when something is off- whether he seems distant or we are not connecting or his schedule changes or i can't find him where he should be, etc.

Good luck. Take care of yourself and trust yourself. Sorry this is so long.

Were they truly remorseful or did u fool yourself into thinking they were the first time? What was the excuse the second time around?

At the time he seemed remorseful but now looking back he was minimizing the situation at best. He told me she was only a friend and even though I saw text messages that sort of told another story I was foolish and believed him. Obviously, he didn't really care how I felt because he continued contact for months and it wasn't until she was engaged (we already were) that he decided the respectful thing to do would be to end contact. She was moving on so I guess he finally figured he should too? I don't understand it.

The excuse was the same the second time around. It was nothing, just joking around, and it was all for attention. He didn't realize what he was doing was wrong.

Were they truly remorseful or did u fool yourself into thinking they were the first time?

I fooled myself yet deep down KNEW he wasn't remorseful. He basically faked remorse.

What was the excuse the second time around?

WH is a SA.

What are the red flags of a repeat offender? How did they sneak around the second time? How many years before the 2nd?

I had no idea he was actually still cheating. It wasn't with the original OW - it was mega porn and men. Well, this is all he has admitted to anyways. He hasn't done a formal disclosure yet. Not sure he ever will - no point if we get divorced. It was 15 months between BIG Ddays for me. He lied the entire time so many smaller Ddays with new info inbetween.

It's odd actually - we separated and he confessed to being a SA. I tend to think we are just smarter now - our blind faith gone - if we listen to our guts - they just KNOW when something is off. I may not have known he was still cheating but I knew things were not right. It's sad we have to live in a state of always looking for clues of danger but the ability to know is gained after a DDay I think.

I will admit our first dday (cannot remember the exact day- blocked it from my mind) I THOUGHT was going to be the last. I told him his behavior (emailing) another woman was not appropriate and he indicated he would stop....

HE DID NOT.... there were more ddays and I made soo many mistakes. He just changed his password. I broke in and changed it again.... more than once.... and then about two months into this nightmare I got in again and found he had sent her gifts for vday..... That's when the shit finally hit the fan and he went NC (at least I think he did). he was forced to realize this was 'more than friends' and that friendships aren't: secret, hidden from spouse, gifts aren't given, and names like 'beautiful' and 'you make me so happy' aren't used with just friends..... I think it woke him up..... in the past 4 years he has seen me in ways he has never seen me before: i have had many emotional breakdowns nearing losing my mind.... I now have severe anxiety and some depression, which I had never had before. I think my brain is permanently changed.... and my heart just aches often.....

If he were to read this I would want him to understand the devastation he created and learn that this was so hard on me that it can never be repeated. If he should ever go down this road again then I will be gone... I know this in my heart... and I just want him to stop feeling guilty for the past and help us move forward together. i think that is the only thing that will help with healing.

My realization about the 2nd dday is that it was really an extention of the first one. The A never ended. I responded totally different this time though. I have set a tone of indifference (as far as my WH is concerned), although I dont quite feel that way yet.

I am more successful at the 180 this time. IDK what will happen. I range between working it out and saying fyck it and going ahead with the D. Currently he is in the confused fog state......so this time, I am using the 180 to help clear MY head space and do whats best for me and mines....

it was three months between ddays - different women, which I guess proves he was looking for the drug, didn't really matter who it was.

He was SO ANGRY and ashamed that I caught him the first time that he reached for the same coping mechanism again. I KNEW he wasn't right so I continued to spy. He woulnd't give me his phone, he changed his passwords and didn't tell me, the list goes on...

The 2nd dday he just handed me his phone and said you be the administrator, he was sick of what he was doing and to please not divorce him.

I don't think WH was truly remorseful. I think he was upset with himself and upset that he got caught, but not truly upset for how he hurt me. He has even said that he feels no empathy for me. If you aren't sure if it's remorse, then it's not. Better to get out before the next DD. I've had at least 3 big ones (and many small ones). It's not worth staying if there isn't remorse.

I was going to give fWS her freedom and it was her decision to R but then she took it underground to varying degrees for awhile. Hence the multiple d-days.

He swears R was not false, and that he just relapsed... But there is a HUGE difference in how he behaves now, and 4 1/2 years ago. We rugswept, and he never did the work on what needed repaired, and when stuff got weird again, he went back to his old patterns. Now, we really talk about it. He doesn't try to shut me down, like he did after dday1.

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 12:29 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

I knew deep down he was not remorseful, he also has no empathy for what he put me through. I tried to fool myself that he was sorry and he loved me, but he is a very selfish person who really is incapable of the emotions of a normal person. He always comes first, then his kid's, work, and I lag very far behind. WH had many more d days, nothing was going to stop him from doing what he wanted to do, no matter who he hurt. So sad...

First D-day, XWH confessed that he was having an EA with coworker and he thought he might "love" her. We struggled through that and he agreed to do MC. He told me it was over. Sat through MC, said all the right things. I didn't investigate or check up on him because I do not want to live that way. If I have to check up on someone, I don't want to live with them.

Second D-day came after he went to a work conference and our cell phone bill had a large spike (that was before you got unlimited calls and texting). I requested a detailed bill from the company and he confessed that the A was ongoing, had become PA as she traveled to his work conference to be with him, and that he definitely was in love with her. I kicked him out that day.

He filed for D and in 3 months our 24-year marriage was over. Six months later, OW broke up with him. He tried to come back, but I was done. There was too much pain and distrust to ever get over it. Plus he wasn't up for the hard work he would have to do to make it happen.

Now, 9 years later I am in the best relationship of my life - far better than the relationship I had with XWH. I'm 53 years old and having the time of my life!

Sending strength and peace.

NL

Wow thanks everyone for such insight and reliving the pain I'm happy that some of you have moved on to happier places and others who are bravely keeping faith in renewed relationships