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User Topic: Explain this please - BS/WS welcome
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking for some insight on this situation.

We are around 2 yrs from DDay, in very solid R. This morning, I was exercising at a local gym (small private facility, divided into 2 rooms with windows in between) and FAP came into the 2nd room, and began working out right in front of my window. This is the 3rd time in 2 yrs that this has occurred, and every time I have immediately left the facility (although the 2nd time I stopped him before he entered and told him to leave, but he suggested we could both work out there as long as we stayed "on our own side". Yeah right.). There is no way he didn't see my car when he arrived - he parked 2 slots away. We live in a super small town too, but runs ins are pretty rare.

BS's: if your WS told you they saw AP's car in the parking lot but went in anyway, would that be acceptable? Is this normal? Would you want to know?

Anyone: FAP's BFF (also a WS) cornered me a few days ago trying to express his friendship and caring for me and my BH and asking why we couldn't all just be friends? Note: this person was cutoff as an acquaintance right after Dday. WTF? Is there some philosophy of infidelity recovery that promotes contact between FAP's and dismisses NC as a requirement? My BH and I are so sick of these people and their lack of respect for our boundaries. Is our desire for total and complete NC with FAP and anyone who associates with him that unusual? Help! These intrusions are NOT helping my BH heal, and there must be some way of keeping them away permanently.



Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
obliquestrat
♂ 42165
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BH and I are so sick of these people and their lack of respect for our boundaries. Is our desire for total and complete NC with FAP and anyone who associates with him that unusual? Help! These intrusions are NOT helping my BH heal, and there must be some way of keeping them away permanently.

So NC violations are still hurting your BH...
BS's: if your WS told you they saw AP's car in the parking lot but went in anyway, would that be acceptable? Is this normal? Would you want to know?

...and you're asking if they're acceptable, or if he'd want to know about them? I think you've answered this one yourself! :)

If it's something that still hurt me, I'd hope that my wife would put my feelings before her workout. And I always want to know everything!

Have you considered changing gyms? That seems like an automatic decision to me in the situation described, but I don't have the whole story.

[This message edited by obliquestrat at 12:42 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Obliq - thanks for responding! Just want to clarify my question to BS's. I always tell my BH about any sightings, and yes, it does hurt him that this is something we still have to deal with.

However, I was curious about the other side - does the other BS think it acceptable for her WH to come home and say "hey - had a great workout today! FAP was there when I got there, but I went in anyway!". Would any BS say "oh great, so glad we can all just get along now"?

[This message edited by Happeningtome at 12:43 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
obliquestrat
♂ 42165
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just went in with an edit and asked my own question about changing gyms. Have you considered it? Why or why not? Sorry if that's too problem-solvy for what's looking like a more generic question space. Can't resist :)
However, I was curious about the other side - does the other BS think it acceptable for her WH to come home and say "hey - had a great workout today! FAP was there when I got there, but I went in anyway!". Would any BS say "oh great, you showed her!"?

Generally speaking, I'd go with NO. But there are always exceptions. Was the WS struggling with feelings for them, avoiding because of that, and realized that they were indifferent to the FAP? Well, maybe, I guess. But from what I understand of your specific context, it seems like a no-upside play to me.


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happening:
I can totally relate. At about 7 months post-dday, AP and her BS came to the gym at a time they knew we'd be there, on a day where only a small part of the large facility was open due to a special event, and proceeded to set up on treadmills about 4 down from where my H was running. It was truly bizarre. (They were both former friends, and this was after a conversation a month before between me and OBS about how painful it was for him, (and her!) to be there when we were.)

To answer your question, my H does not go to our gym alone. She works there sporadically, and that was part of their affair-grounds, so that is just a No. Even at 2 years out, if he were to ever venture there alone, yes -- I would expect him to abort the mission if he saw her vehicle there. Absolutely. And truthfully, out of respect for her BS, if we had wandered in on them exercising that day, we would have left - I would have never dreamed to set up a few treadmills down. It shows a huge lack of respect, and quite frankly, couth. I just don't get this "standoff at the OK corral" stuff.

These folks do have serious boundary issues. My feeling is that they are personas non gratis to you now. (Not sure of the plural of that, actually.) Anyway -- I know what you are going through, and good luck!! You are NOT crazy!

[This message edited by bionicgal at 12:50 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With respect to changing gyms, yes, I could stop going there, and I would if my BH wanted me to. But he doesn't think I should - he just would expect me to never enter the building if FAP's car was in the parking lot, which seems logical and respectful to both BS's. Apparently they do not have the same thought process however.

As I haven't seen him there for almost 8 months, I didn't think it was an issue any longer. He must have a friend who belongs who gave him the entry code, as there was no parking pass visible on his car.


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
obliquestrat
♂ 42165
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hm. Even if your BH "doesn't think you should" change gyms, wouldn't that be a great message to proactively send him?

The FAP apparently has boundary issues, and still goes to the gym. There are other gyms. Bonding opportunity knocking, methinks.


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
Jrazz
♀ 31349
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and I would if my BH wanted me to

Maybe he doesn't want to have to ask. Maybe he's hoping that you will feel personally compelled to cut out the AP at all costs.

I know communication about our feelings is important for both sides to practice, but sometimes doing something that is hurtful to our spouse and yet waiting for them to comment before making a change is not fair either.


"Sometimes people are mean, and sometimes things will be hard. One of your jobs is to try and make sure that that never makes you mean and hard, too." Cord Jefferson's Mom

Posts: 18277 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
silentscream13
♀ 41693
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS's: if your WS told you they saw AP's car in the parking lot but went in anyway, would that be acceptable? Is this normal? Would you want to know?

BS here. I absolutely would not find that acceptable and yes I would want to know. Immediately.

We live in a super small town too, but runs ins are pretty rare.

These intrusions are NOT helping my BH heal, and there must be some way of keeping them away permanently.

Unfortunately, you do live in a small community so it may be hard to keep them away permanently.

However, it seems as though you are doing everything you can to avoid the AP, to be open and honest with your BH, and to protect him. I think as long as you continue to do what you are doing, your BH will continue to heal.

Hugs and good luck.


ME: BS- 40; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13); 4 kids
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (planning it b/f he got caught) w/ EX-GF; extreme porn use our entire relationship.
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: 18 years; Married: 15 years
Status: He wants to R. Me? Meh.

Posts: 286 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks BG - this run in coming on the heels of being confronted by his BFF on Friday is really crazy. I gave his BFF a total verbal smack down for even approaching me, so I'm not sure if this is retaliation for that, or If they are all just living in "everyone makes mistakes-just get over it" wacko land!

My BH and I have put in tons of hard work to get where we are today, and I refuse to let these people derail us.


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank Obliq, Jrazz and SS13. I'll talk to my BH about continuing to use the facility. He's pretty good about letting me take my lumps when it comes to consequences from my A - he doesn't step in and try to protect me as he knows i am 100% responsible for my choices, and that some things have to change for me. He does, however, get pretty mad when people push our boundaries or 'Stalk' us, as he made it very clear to a lot of people, including FAP, that he would not tolerate any of that sh$t. It is so maddening to have to repeat THE OBVIOUS to these people.

[This message edited by Happeningtome at 1:16 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS's: if your WS told you they saw AP's car in the parking lot but went in anyway, would that be acceptable?

It would be a dealbreaker. NC is NC.
If I saw my APs car I would drive away and tell BS.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5491 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
obliquestrat
♂ 42165
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll talk to my BH about continuing to use the facility

Just one more plug here - consider telling him that you changed facilities, rather than talking to him about it. I think that would be a very awesome and welcome surprise, with the reasoning behind it. It seems to me that your head and your heart are in the right place.


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
refuz2bavictim
♀ 27176
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I refuse to let these people derail us.

That may involve finding a new gym. If both parties dig their heels in to "claim territory" it will be easy to lose sight of what really matters. It could be easy to get caught up in the "make them leave" mentality and stop focusing on the healing of the relationship.

there must be some way of keeping them away permanently.

Instead of trying to figure out how to keep them away, it might be better to view it as moving off of their radar. That requires you to take steps to move toward something new. The other option is to dig in, and set up camp.

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 1:40 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
somethingremorse
♂ 42047
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

consider telling him that you changed facilities, rather than talking to him about it. I think that would be a very awesome and welcome surprise, with the reasoning behind it.

WS here. Every relationship is different, so YMMV. But I think I'd want to discuss this openly with BW before making a change. There is a part of BW that wants to stop yielding parts of our geography to the AP. I think NC is the only policy, and I'd quit anything the AP might do. But I have lots of alternatives. Your BS may want to draw a line somewhere. If he is comfortable with your actions and honesty, not leaving may be what he wants.

I guess I'm saying is that maybe he wants you to just do it without his input. Or maybe he wants to hold your ground at the gym. I do not think there is one right answer to every situation.


Me: WH (40s)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 741 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Neveragain1221
♀ 41969
Member # 41969
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went full NC with my FAP. I also went full NC with anyone who's associated with him. That involved me having to cut ties with one of my best friends, but it was something that had to be done. Former Best Friend is "friends" with FAP's wife, and she knows all about his multiple affairs and cheating. We decided that, even though it was painful for me to lose her, we couldn't have ANYONE in our life that was close to him.

Even so, before I cut ties with her, she contacted me to let me know that FAP was "worried about me and would be there if I needed to talk". Puh-leez.

What it sounds like is that your FAP is trying to find some way to see you again and reconnect. I'd change gyms if I were you, if only to avoid him. It will do your BH wonders to know you took that step without him having to ask.


Me: WS 26. 4 year EA and PA.
Him: BS (MercifulH) 27.
D-day 1/3/14.
Separated heading to D :(

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2014
obliquestrat
♂ 42165
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I think I'd want to discuss this openly with BW before making a change.

I think you're right, I agree - unilaterally changing could be too much.

I still think an, "I'd like to change facilities" conversation is vastly better than a, "would you like me to change facilities?" one. Take the bat out of his hand, don't make him ask for it. Show even more commitment to continuing the R. He can still object if he wants, it only flips the default action. On balance, I'd prefer a proactive, well-intentioned mistake ("I cooked your least-favorite food!") to a reactive success ("I left because you asked").


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
Jrazz
♀ 31349
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes the BS gets tired of being the "Boundaries Police" and is hoping that the WS will take the reigns. This should be articulated in order for there to be healthy communications, but I just wanted to share the idea as food for thought.

I imagine that it would be a tremendous relief and a sign of trust being built if you set some boundaries like this on your own instead of turning to him to make the mandate.

This is a great conversation, Happening. I'm really glad you brought it up.


"Sometimes people are mean, and sometimes things will be hard. One of your jobs is to try and make sure that that never makes you mean and hard, too." Cord Jefferson's Mom

Posts: 18277 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to t/j a little, and say that your situation may be different, but for us -- switching the gym was not like switching gas stations. When I have posted about gym-issues, I got a lot of "just don't go there. .. switch gyms," etc. It isn't that easy if you are a person who takes gym-going relatively seriously, and aren't just a "couple weeks in Jan." kind of person. (No offense to anyone. )

A gym is a community, and dare I say -- somewhat more like church than a grocery store. My H gave up going alone to best and most convenient facility by our house because he told the OBS he would, and because skanky OW worked there a few hours a week. (Also works out there.) So, we both schlep to another one 20 minutes away, or we find other alternatives much of the time. Or, we go together.

But, I feel defensive about the "switching gym" thing for people in small towns, etc. It really isn't always that easy or desirable to do so. It really is up to the BS in the situation, I'd say, and what they are comfortable with, and it sounds to me like fAP is being a gym bully. I vote that you and BS go together, or go when you are pretty sure he can't be there. (Like, work hours, etc.)

[This message edited by bionicgal at 2:31 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Happeningtome
♀ 36327
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After DDay, my BH and I adopted an "enthusiastic agreement" process - I.e. we would seek out those activities that met with an 'enthusiastic agreement' from each other. Before DDay, I would have started/stopped activities without ever discussing it with him. Now, no way. Fitness/working out is something we both value very highly and we talk about our fitness goals and activities a lot. If I just 'told' him I was going to start working out somewhere else he would find that very rude. I owe him the courtesy of a discussion on this issue, and I value his input. Yes, I agree that I can approach the discussion from a variety of angles, and I'll be as sensitive to the situation as I can.

Right now, I am frustrated that other people's choices are interfering in our lives, when we have made such an effort to build up strong walls and avoid them. What is their motivation for wanting to hurt my BH more? They MUST know how hurtful it is for him, because they've seen their own BS suffer! These people are evil.


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
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