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Please tell me again why what I want to do is not a good idea

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MadeOfScars posted 2/4/2014 15:28 PM

Sorry guys and gals. You already went down this road with me once, but I cannot shake this need to send my WW a letter I wrote and posted here once before:

I just feel like I NEED her to know what she's done to me. I want to say so badly that I know her better than anyone here, but then again, the woman I knew wouldn't have done this to me. I want to say I know this will hit home and lead us down the path to either reconciliation, or confirmation that its over when, ultimately, this may make things worse. I just HATE sitting in limbo and its killing me for her to not know what devastation she left behind.

Quick summary:

D-Day - 1/20/14
She moved out with a good amount of her stuff. I am still in our home with the rest of her crap and all the reminders. Last I heard, she was staying with her mom to get some space, but who the hell knows now. We have had minimal contact, but our last contact was that she "needed time" and wants to ultimately reconcile. She says the A is over, but I have no way of knowing if that too is a lie or not.

Please talk me off the ledge...

Chippednotbroken posted 2/4/2014 15:42 PM

She knows what she did, she doesn't care. Any letter from you laying out your devistation isn't going to matter. She is just going to think you are a sap and trying to make her feel bad. Which you are. You can't guilt her into coming back. You can, however move on. Do things that you want to do. Box up all her crap and put it in the garage. She is not going to care about the letter and then what's left after you send it? You're still mad and then you feel stupid.

norabird posted 2/4/2014 15:43 PM

Try and focus not on your need to express yourself to her, but on her actions. What have they been, besides hurtful? Turn down the volume on her talk about R. You have no idea if she is still in the A. Probably she still is. If so, reaching out is futile--too much fog.

Limbo sucks. But focus on what you want for yourself independent of the M. Do things that have their focus on that, on you; on the new opportunity to work on yourself.

I forget--are you in IC? That would be a great refuge for you right now.

brokenblackbird posted 2/4/2014 15:45 PM

...our last contact was that she "needed time" and wants to ultimately reconcile.

she wants, she needs

What do you want and need? Please focus your energy in that direction.

What is she doing to show you she wants to reconcile? Talk is cheap, they all talk and tell us things to string us along.

Whether you send the letter is up to you. It won't have the desired affect. It won't show her or change anything right now. She is checked out of your marriage.

MadeOfScars posted 2/4/2014 15:52 PM

She has shown me nothing, and yeah, I reflect back on our last conversations and so much is rather selfish on her part in retrospect. Norabird, I did just start IC Monday and I go again next Monday. I'm hoping over time that will help me put things in perspective. Hell, my IC asked me what I want to do, any interests I want to pursue, etc. I can't think of anything. Everything I liked to do directly involved her. She's everywhere and yet nowhere at once. I gotta find something though before I go crazy.

I will refrain from sending this. I think I just needed to be told to pull my head out of my ass again before I did something dumb. I'll continue to not reach out to her, and if she wants to save this, she has to come to me and SHOW me. I'm not sure how long I can stay in limbo, but I guess I'll know when that clock runs out.

Thanks everyone.

WarpSpeed posted 2/4/2014 15:56 PM

I've gone through some version of what you are experiencing. See my profile.

I wrote letters. On one of the few times we saw each other before the divorce I was an absolute crying trainwreck.

She knew I was devastated. It didn't matter.

After a month or two I decided that I was going to move on with my life. I was going to heal. I was going to do things to make me the best person I could be for the friends and family that were in my life.

Ultimately, my wife and I reconciled and remarried. But, that's not the norm.

The important take away is that I was going to be happy with my life. I was rebuilding.

Focus on you and your healing. That is something you can actually influence. Trust that you are strong and you can rebuild and be happy. Whether that includes your WW is a TBD down the road. She may or may not figure out what she needs to do to be a part of your life. But you should know that your life can and will be good again. You will make that so.

MadeOfScars posted 2/4/2014 16:00 PM

Thank you WarpSpeed. I know I gotta work on me despite all the reminders and utter confusion I'm mired in. Some way or another, I won't let this break me.

RealityStinks posted 2/4/2014 16:06 PM

I just feel like I NEED her to know what she's done to me.

Buddy, if I had a dollar for every time I felt that way, I could retire. Gently, she doesn't give a crap. It took me following my WW and the OM to the house she's been living at for the past 8 weeks or so LAST NIGHT after being told the DAY BEFORE (while me trying to explain what you want to convey) that she was so sorry for hurting me and that she had not talked to him since before we separated (before Thanksgiving).

True, undemanded remorse and repentance is the ONLY type of attitude you can R with. Until your WW displays that, you are pissing in the wind.

MadeOfScars posted 2/4/2014 16:16 PM

That sounds brutal man, sorry. I guess thats part of what this forum is about - learning from others and their experiences in hopes you can save not only yourself, but the next guy/gal some pain. I got the whole "I am so sorry for hurting you" with tears and all, but yeah, words don't cut it. Actions matter, and her actions so far scream "we're probably done, but maybe not. I just want to see whats going to play out for me first."

Granted we were much younger and not married, but my last "serious" relationship before my WW ended much the same way. She cheated, i moved on eventually, she comes back, we hit it off again, she cheats again. The second time I remember being more pissed that I fell for it again than hurt.

I do not like this pattern though - seems everyone always eventually cheats on me (not just the current WW and ex-girlfriend from just outta high school days). Maybe thats a sign.

tushnurse posted 2/4/2014 16:32 PM

Soul - you can send it, but all she is gonna do is see it's from you, read the first sentence then the rest of might as well be what Charlie Brown's teacher says, Wha Wha wha wha wha whaa wha. Cause that's all she is going to take away from it.

By sharing your pain and your hurt you are opening up and being vulnerable, isn't she really the one that needs to that? Not you?

Reread 180. Read profiles of Moving Upward (Moo), and Stronger, and Abandondad, so you know that you too can survive this and be ok.

Find yourself again, and find happiness again. She may wake up and get her head on straight, and she may not, at least you know you will be ok either way.

(((and strength)))

scarednbroken posted 2/4/2014 17:06 PM


I know you feel like you want to send it, but it really won't make an impact. Not if she isn't really into R. It MAY manipulate her into making a decision that isn't right. And from what I read, it seems like she has left you hanging on a string, waiting to see if you will really wait, or waiting to see if someone "better" comes along.

Make your own way, become your own person. Even if your interests were all things you did together, find a way to enjoy them with out her. If it requires a "partner' find a friend to join you. I would start by making an inventory of all your interests, see what you want to try first. Or think about what you did before you were married. Pick up those interests.

hugs and luck

painfulpast posted 2/4/2014 17:45 PM

Hi SoulHurts. I’m so sorry you find yourself in this situation. To find out that there’s been a betrayal in a marriage is so painful. It’s a pain you can’t imagine unless you’ve been there. It’s hell.

For you, it’s double hell. I won’t accept some cheating waste to hide things from me, ever. You shouldn’t either. Even it if was just once, she is still going and kissing your son after seeing OM. She is honestly delusional to just hide it from you.

I’d suggest taking a hard stance. If she won’t open up, you’re done. If she won’t completely tell the truth, I’d leave.

Why are you tolerating this nightmare from her, or anyone? You’re better that that.

Remember = She and her lover had their fun. Now you get to be tortured, and she is dictating what you can and cannot know? Screw her. Seriously, she’s acting like a spoiled bitch. “Oh, BooHoo! I cheated and now I think maybe I ruined some things that I liked.” YOU are the victim here. YOU are the one that did nothing to cause this. SHE cheated. SHE lied. SHE had sex with too many people. HE needed to change.

Don’t put up with her bullshit. If she wants R, then she tells you who, when, how, and any other question you have, immediately.

I’m sorry you’re stuck with her as a WW. She’s not remorseful. She’s not trying to make amends. She’s running away like a coward and crying because she is so sad. Fuck her.

tooanalytical posted 2/4/2014 19:01 PM

The people who are most ready for a healthy relationship are those that don't need anyone in their life and don't really need a relationship to be happy. They are comfortable with who they are and don't need another person's affirmation of them to feel happy. They can set boundaries and not be co-dependent.

In my opinion, no BS should ever be in limbo unless they are comfortable being a doormat or like enabling their spouse to screw around with someone else. Not this guy. The hard 180 works in my opinion. I wasn't going to wait around weeks for a decision. It was either me or OM. I was ready to split the assets and D immediately. If D was the route, we needed to tell the kids that week. She needed to look for somewhere else to live while I worked on selling the house. I was ready to unwind our life together and I had plans. Plans that didn't include her. I wanted my healing to start immediately.

Your letter is great to send to a WS who is coming out of the fog, is remorseful and wants to R. Unfortunately your WW is not any of them. Knock her off the fence. Either way you will be on the road to recovery. Right now your are bleeding and your WW is making the wound worse. I am reminded of the bible reading of the healing pool near Betheseda. A lame man was lying next to the pool for 38 years. When Jesus saw him and knew he had been lying there a long time, he said to him, "Do you want to be healed?" (John 5:6 RSV)

That is a question we all face when something tragic happens like this. You think the answer would be an obvious Yes to wanting to be healed but many people like their weakness. They are always craving the attention of others through their helplessness. They have grown used to be co-dependent on others rather than assuming responsibility for their own lives. This choice is yours to make. If you want to start the healing process, then "Rise, pick up your mat, and walk." And at once the man was healed, and he took up his mat and walked. (John 5:8b-9a RSV)

MadeOfScars posted 2/5/2014 09:24 AM

Interestingly enough, the WW contacted me last night stating that she cannot stay with her mom any longer. her sister needs to move back in since her boyfriend apparently kicked her out, so there's simply not much room. As such, she wants to get her own place which is her perogative. She started asking about what furniture she can take and all that, and I pretty much needed to shut the conversation down as politely as possible. As calmly and respectfully as i could, I informed her that I have my own life to live, and that if she's about to enter into a 6 month or year lease, that tells me pretty clearly she's not ready to attempt any kind of R. As such, its up to her to let me know if she can dedicate herself to fixing this or if we need to officially go our separate ways, but I cannot wait around as a fallback plan.

As much as it hurt me to say it, i know it needed to be said, so i told her that i can live with either scenario. I just won't sit in limbo indefinitely. We'll see if that "knocks her off the fence" or not. As painful as it is, I'd rather her straight up tell me if we're done or not, but again, I am not waiting around like some sad lost puppy dog. I told her I have my own life to live, with or without her, and I'm not going to try an sway her either way. She's the one who strayed, so its on her to win me back, or decide to move on. I can and will live with either choice.

On the inside, I'm dying still, but I'm not telling her that. I have no choice in what she decides, but I do have a choice in how I handle myself going forward, and dammit I will come out of all of this a better man, with or without her.

damaged71 posted 2/5/2014 09:28 AM

She knows what she did, she doesn't care. Any letter from you laying out your devistation isn't going to matter. She is just going to think you are a sap and trying to make her feel bad. Which you are. You can't guilt her into coming back. You can, however move on. Do things that you want to do. Box up all her crap and put it in the garage. She is not going to care about the letter and then what's left after you send it? You're still mad and then you feel stupid.

I have reconciled with my wife. She witnessed the damage she caused but she still does not truly have any idea of the true damage.

There is no chance in hell your wife will get it through a letter.

Your last response was the BEST possible thing you could have done.

RealityStinks posted 2/5/2014 09:51 AM

What damaged71 said +1.

Man, if she gets an apartment, you need to get a lawyer. It's over.

Plus, how small could her own mother's place be that it wouldn't accommodate her sister? Really? That's just an excuse to have her own place so her and the OM can do whatever, whenever.

Take my WW, she's been at this lady's house in the MIL sweet over the garage since before Christmas. Her cousin has begged her to come back to her house (3000+ square feet), and friends of ours (well hers with a walk out basement) have asked her to live with them (I read her texts the other night). My WW is making excuses for staying over the garage. Why? Because it's her "own place" and easy to sneek the OM in to and out of. Plain and simple.

MadeOfScars posted 2/5/2014 10:00 AM

Her Mother's place is pretty tiny and her sister and her would share a room, and knowing her sister, I can see why my WW would rather not do that aside from any OM stuff.

THAT SAID, getting an apartment is basically saying its over. There are other options I know that'd be available to her aside from even moving back to our home. She can say whatever she wants about why she wants to get her own place, but taking that step essentially closes the door.

TrulySad posted 2/5/2014 10:13 AM

Nothing you say will change who she is. Do you really want a woman who has cheated and shows no remorse, doesn't even know if she wants you? If there is ever going to be a chance with her, she needs to come out of her twisted fog. You can't bring her out of it with an email. The only way for it to happen, is through reality. And that's only if she wants it.

In the meantime, your last response was good. In fact, maybe it's time for you to set the tone. If she calls again, thinking she has options, tell her no. Place her things in bags, and tell her a time she can pick them up. As for dividing the property, inform her that it will be done via lawyers. Take back your power.

I'd also recommend removing her from facebook (if you have one), and any other social sites. I believe the W's use these sites to keep tabs on us. If she looks, she will see you've removed her. Trust me, if there is a chance with her, this will sting and make her think for a moment.

The purpose of the 180 is for the B to take care of themselves and take back control of their life. I think by doing so, it also in many cases, wakes the Wayward up to who they are losing. It shakes their world, and forces them to see reality.

Stay strong!!

norabird posted 2/5/2014 10:32 AM

I have no choice in what she decides, but I do have a choice in how I handle myself going forward, and dammit I will come out of all of this a better man, with or without her.

Now you've got it. You will still feel weak sometimes, you will still hurt, but by taking back control, by choosing what is best for you, the healing can start. As others have said, you can move on and get an independent, happy life. You are strong enough. You are worth it.

damaged71 posted 2/5/2014 10:39 AM

dammit I will come out of all of this a better man, with or without her.


I got up at 4am this morning and was in the gym by 4:30. I am 42 years old and in about 2.5 more months I'll have my "six pack" back and will be in better shape than I have been in since I was a paratrooper 22 years ago.

My wife will know for the rest of my life that my value is not to be minimized and I would be a very good catch for another woman. She will ALWAYS be on her "toes" so to speak as long as we are married.

Sorry if this is harsh but I want my wife to "work" for me and nothing does that like a little perceived competition.*

*For the record I have not and WILL NOT EVER cheat on my wife.

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