Believe me, all comments welcome from WS and BS
HealingMy Angel - I have been in IC and MC but not sure of the results.
First of all, if you have been in IC and MC before and can sit here and say you are not sure of the results (for personal healing or marriage rebuilding), then you need to march right back to those counsellors and get your damn money back because for sure, they must be incompetent. Or Not!
Perhaps itís really a case of getting out what you put in to the situation. Have you been open, honest and trustworthy between AP 1 and AP 5? By your own words, you were not and continue not to be. So, again, I stress the point that you only get results from IC and MC when you put forth time, money, effort, commitment etc. You failed and continue to fail in this regard.
HealingMy Angel - BS has given me a million chances( I kid you not) and I continue to blow each one. No reading, no posts, no IC, no responsibility, no remorse and no acts of love.
One of my tag lines is the phrase, 2nd Chance and that was picked not because I was begging for one but at another level, it was the only other one that my wife was willing to grant. Your wife has had to deal with more d-days (discovery day, death days, and disgust days) that you can shake a stick and you still have no remorse? Wow, is all I can say. Wow because your wife must be an amazing person to have stood by you and wow, because it seems to me that you are deliberately trying to destroy your marriage by inaction.
HealingMy Angel - While this is horrible of me I'm lost on what to do.
I would suggest filing for divorce. It would seem to me that you really donít care about your wife. I understand feeling guilt and shame for your actions but if there is no remorse and empathy for your wife, then it seems to me that there is no emotional connection anymore.
I think you need to flip and coin and make a decision. Letting your wife go might not address the broken WS that you are but it just might let her have an opportunity to heal from the pain of this all. Then without having to worry about your BS and your marriage, you can if you want, make the decision to start your own discovery and healing journey.
HealingMy Angel - Is all lost? Any saving grace? Any hope? Any future?
Personally, because Iím having a shitty day and reacting quite emotionally to your story, I feel that the lack of remorse, some 10 years after your first affair, is indicative that you really have zero commitment to your wife and your marriage. I would suggest that your continuing decision to not take any steps to healing is indicative of a sub-conscious desire to end your marriage. So, do everyone a favour and make the hard decision.
Wisdom from Gamine - Make a decision and discipline yourself not to waver. Don't be someone who stands for nothing. Stand for what you decide and back it with the full force of your character and conviction. DECIDE. CHOOSE. COMMIT. PERIOD.
[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 7:47 AM, February 5th (Wednesday)]
So why do you not want things to improve? Your actions are declaring that you don't, loud and clear. How can you change that message?
Do you even want to?
I'm so so very sad for your wife. Her integrity and strength, in how you've described her, is amazing. All I can imagine right now is how much she needs support, comfort, and serious remorse from you...yet it sounds like you don't have it.
Please know this isn't meant as an attack. My hope is you are genuinely wanting to change. I'm a BGF. But I've also been a BW and a BGF in another relationship. Unfortunately I have too much experience with this.
Here's the thing... it sounds like you know those "little" things you're doing have zero to do with R. You're continuing to live your marriage as though nothing has changed. Before you read any further...please ask yourself if you really want advice. If you're doing this just to humor your BW, stop and walk away. She deserves to heal and eventually be with a man who will give her all she deserves.
If, and I hope this is the case, you really want to change, please listen to what all these people here have to say. Follow their advice. You're taking the easy way out. This will not fix things. I realize you're saying you hear what your BW says...and you know what you should be doing...but you don't feel it. Well stand up and do it then!!! Don't wait around to feel it first. I guarantee the end result will be a D. If you want to stay married, and you don't want to lose this incredible woman, then quit making excuses.
First, whether you think it will work, or not, please get in IC. For some reason you're blocking yourself from feeling anything real. An IC can help you, if you want it. Trust me on this. Also, I hope your BW is able to talk with an IC. I know how she feels, and let me tell you...it's one of the most painful things I've experienced. She's alone and yet she's still standing by your side. I want to cry for her.
Next, are you completely transparent? Make yourself an open book. She needs ALL accounts, passwords, and access to everything at any time. Don't wait for her to ask for these. Do them. It means far more than flowers.
No female friends. No personal conversations to any females other than wife and family. This means no discussing the dinner last night, no discussion of the movie you saw. Nada. Keep those discussion to men only. You've shown you have no boundries with females, and it's time to start. No exceptions. Again, do this without her asking.
When she wants to talk...listen. Just listen. If she asks questions, answer with the complete truth. Stop walking away. It's as simple as that. Can you imagine the pain she's going through, and what's going on in her mind????? Deciding to ask questions, talk about it, cry over it...it's beyon painful for us. And for every day you refuse this for your wife, it's another day of pure utter painful hell she has to go through. Don't allow yourself the option of walking away or blocking it.
Read here. Daily. I believe there is a letter in the library called "Joseph's Letter" (hope I'm correct of the title). READ IT. But also, I've found reading in the Just Found Out forum, and General forum also gives you a very raw and painful insight into the pain a B goes through. You need to see this pain. I don't see how a truly remorseful W could read these posts, and not start to change their actions.
Make your BW the focus of your everything. Trust me, she needs you right now. Flowers and little chores done are nice, but they should be done just because you want to make each other happy. Repairing the damage done by your A's is something entirely different. It sounds like you know this. Don't do the work because you have a guarantee it will work. Do it because she's worth it, regardless of the outcome.
I don't feel any remorse from your post at all. None. It's all, "I'm a monster woe is me". It's all about you.
What about your wife??? As you stated, she's given you numerous chances and you've repeatedly thrown them back in her face. You're doing it right now.
Flowers, vacations, they don't fix this. Every time my husband brought me flowers I wanted to throw them in his face. Getting defensive, not doing what she needs to feel safe, her having to beg you to post, is not remorse.
You blamed her for years, despite health issues. Do you still use this as justification? My husband did this too, it killed me inside. Then, he got I'll and saw a fraction of what I went through and realized what a manipulative ass he had been.
My husband had 4 APs. I am reconciling. Why? Because he finally started fixing himself and us.
He went to MC and IC.
He went to 12 step sex addiction meetings.
He stopped being defensive, answered any and all questions.
He comforted me when I cried.
He sincerely apologized for individual actions.
He read books.
Full transparency, I have access to everything.
He stopped lying.
He put everything into our marriage.
If you aren't willing to do all of that and more? End the marriage. You will hurt her again and again.
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
Look, from your join date, you have been aware of this site since 2010, done IC, MC and whatever else you have done yet you continue to have affairs, seemingly anytime the opportunity arises. Amazingly, I see little to no actual remorse for what you have done to your wife and family. As another said, your wife must embody the principals of Christian grace beyond compare, have a very high tolerance for abuse or simply be terrified.
You have no idea how lucky you are to even have a chance at anything.
At his point there is no room at all for shutting down and not talking about things for days - Do you think she is going to forget?
Its all on you now, "Do or Do Not, there is no Try" comes to mind. If you are serious, get back to or find a competent IC, talk about the hard things, explore sexual addiction and FOO and everything else and really DO the work you need to do. The little things you do are nice, but the only real gift you can give is to fix yourself.
As Hufi said, DECIDE, your wife deserves better.
[This message edited by Finally10 at 10:21 AM, February 5th (Wednesday)]
You have a PM.
My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.
Maybe I'm projecting, because I was a cold-hearted monster too. Difference is, when I got caught, I decided to get help...not because someone forced me to, but because I recognized how broken I was. That no matter what the outcome of our marriage, I had to get help for me. Not once in this missive do you say you want to change, you want to heal. Do you?
The other difference I see between me, the recovering cold-hearted monster, and you is...I know DDay #2 would be BH's last. The M would be over. You've continued to fall off the wagon because you can. Not saying this is your wife's fault, not even a little. But she keeps taking you back, so you have little incentive to change.
What's wrong with you? You're self-medicating. When you feel stressed or sad or lonely, you look to outside sources for the cause (like your lazy wife who you never loved) and the treatment (these women who found you funny and witty).
Is there any hope, you ask? Hope is for children. Grown-ups don't need hope. We are the masters of our own destiny. We can make our lives anything we want them to be, if we're strong enough to dig in and do the work.
This is hard, hard, hard work. You really have to set aside your pride if you want to save your marriage. Are you able to do that? If not, it's kindest to leave. If you do want to save it, you need to drop the defensiveness, smash your webcam with a hammer (or better yet, let your wife do it), remove any and all passwords from your phone/computer (or give her a list of passwords), give her access to your phone bill, etc. etc. It CAN be done, it's just not easy. But it's worth it.
All of us need hope. It's inhumane to suggest that we don't. Best wishes to you.
Be proactive and get some answers. Don't just accept this condition you are in! You are not healthy to be making such harmful choices and to be feeling so out of control.
To do the right thing, I think you should divorce your wife and let her find someone who values her as a human being, and respects her.
like others have posted, you haven't even BEGAN to scrape the surface of doing anything to fix yourself. You aren't even trying! Either give it 100% or set her free. She doesn't deserve to be treated that way.
I hope you do some serious thinking!
Together 8 years
DDay: June 24, 2013
This is the WS Forum, be respectful or you will be removed from in here.
None of the WS's deserve your sarcastic remarks.
[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:24 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]
[This message edited by sweetangelbroken at 12:03 AM, February 7th (Friday)]