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alifeforesaken posted 2/5/2014 14:33 PM

How do you know when it's not happening?

I know it did before, I know WH is a good liar. I just feel like every answer or explanation is a lie. How do I move past it? Is patience the answer?

I have completely convinced myself even if I find nothing, that there was and he disposed of it. That every answer he gives, even if it's logical and actually truthful, that he is just lying. That he has to be.

I am trying to give WH the chance to prove things to me and even when things are good, I get hung up on this. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've lost my reality.

I know I want to R, I feel I owe it to myself and my family, and I do love him. I am fully aware that one day I may realize I cannot. I can't shake the feeling that I almost want to find him lying because I know that would be the last straw, this uncertainty is overwhelming me. And thinking like that worries me.

shatteredapart posted 2/5/2014 15:04 PM

I know exactly what you mean. I'm constantly on hyper alert when he's not with me. I know mine comes from having more than 1 dday. You are not alone in your feelings. {{alifeforsaken}}

sisoon posted 2/5/2014 16:53 PM

I think you may be talking about something that take time to learn. The A breaks your trust big time. It can be rebuilt, but it takes myriads of trust-building actions to rebuild, and that takes time.

The longer and more often your WS does trustworthy things, the more you'll trust him. at this point, so close to D-Day, trust if premature and downright unsafe for you.

Right now, your lack of trust is healthy.

Calli0pe posted 2/5/2014 21:01 PM

I understanding feeling like everything he says is a lie.
But gaslighting isn't just lying. Does he turn everything around on you? Does he make it sound like you're crazy or your suspicions are totally unjustified?

avicarswife posted 2/6/2014 04:47 AM

My WH used to gaslight me. I was concerned about his relationship with mOW#1, I thought their relationship was inappropriate and called it an EA. Never did I ever think it was a PA until almost on d-day.

I had read text between them saying she loved him and missed him blah blah. When I called WH on them he told me I had a dirty mind and it was just friendship and the love of a good friend like family.

As I got more concerned he would tell how difficult it was for him living with me. That I was so suspicious it was like "walking on egg shells". That my neurotic behaviour made things impossible and I needed to get some help with my "anxiety" as it was becoming extreme and I was seemed paranoid. I was about to make an appointment with my GP on d-day.

You get so twisted by their comments you begin to believe you are crazy - heck I thought he was genuinely concerned about my mental health. He didn't seem angry, more frustrated, impatient and then he would ooze concern about my "silly worries". He even arranged 3 months of MC where I was portrayed as the neurotic wife who didn't understand the demands of his role as a minister, and he the gentle benevolent spouse trying desperately to help and support me.

[This message edited by avicarswife at 4:54 AM, February 6th (Thursday)]

crossroads2010 posted 2/6/2014 05:35 AM

I am over 4 years out and today I found an odd charge on our bank statement...not totally unexplainable but suspicious...I will investigate further. How long am I going to live this way...I don't know. It gets way better as time goes on...you let your guard down a little at a time, but I don't know if you ever stop waiting for the other shoe to drop...that may be the new reality. If I am really honest with myself, I may be hoping to find something just so this is over...I get what you are saying, but have no real answers other than it lessens with time. I try to mentally and otherwise prepare for the day that I may have to leave him...the day that they break NC...whether it actually happens or not.

steadfast1973 posted 2/6/2014 05:43 AM

Yeah... My fWH took waytoo long at the tire place last night. He was angry when he got home. I spent a good portion of my time trying to gauge his anger. Was it fake? Was he with an escort and was trying to cover by feigning anger at poor customer service?

alifeforesaken posted 2/6/2014 07:40 AM

Hmmm... I always considered it gaslighting, but could I be confusing it with just flat out lying? I want to say that before DDay 2 there was at least some gaslighting. Making me believe what I saw wasn't what I thought. I don't think he ever called me crazy though. I feel crazy.

I just feel like he has an answer for everything. And because I don't trust him, I feel that any answer is a lie that is to make me think what I suspect isn't true. Now, there have been incidents where he gets defensive and has undoubtedly projected back on to me and that is why I worry.

Though I have noticed the defensiveness is a trait he has always had, he has done it with others where he just feels he is right or has been wronged, no lies or secrets involved, a pride thing. This is one of the issues he needs to work on. I have noticed that some or most those times lately with me stemmed more from how I approached the topic and the timing. Like was he tired, or was he at work, or was I condescending. When I ask him questions more calmly and I try to pick more appropriate time, no matter the issue, he responds calmly and even the last week or so he has started to respond more empathetically, which is new. Granted there is still always an answer, and some make perfect sense, some to me seem weird.

yesterday is an example. we need to use our CC's for work expenses, and I do all the finances. I keep a log and we go over them. There were 3 charges and the location shows in the merchant name. What got me was the name of the merchant matched 2 food places he said he went to the day before, but he was in a different state, the 3rd charge was a typical supply store he would expense in the same area. I asked and he without hesitation responded that his asst mgr used the card for training and he allowed him to purchase them food and that he was unaware of the 3rd charge. I was still suspicious, chances they both chose the same restaurants (yes they are chains)?

He later said to me, without me bringing it up, that he understood my suspicions and that he understands that it's going to take a long time for me to believe him again because of all the lies, however that he is not changing his story because that is the story. We went over the expenses saying which were submitted and not and those he said were not. He was in his work email and I asked if I could look (I have access, but try to be respective of corporate policies). He said absolutely. I noticed an auto email receipt from the supply store and I said, "I thought you didn't know?". He said he didn't know at the time I asked but that he had saw it in his email after we talked and that he had submitted for reimbursement and he barely got the words out of his mouth and he could see I was about to say he just told me he didn't submit it. He said " Man I did submit, I'm so sorry, I totally forgot". This is what's hard. He looked genuine, and he is a spaz. I would not be shocked if everything he said is true, but if it was a lie, I wouldn't be shocked either. UGH!

The fact that he has never really had his act together makes it so hard. And the rest of the night was good, he talked about how our MC session was good and he thinks it's helping. The counselor took him aside at the end and talked to him alone. Our MC dealt with infidelity himself, when he was about the same age as WH and before he became a therapist. He told him how IC is really important and that reconciling takes take work and a long time, that the A was not worth it. I think that really hit home with him, I think knowing that it can be done is a something WH trips over in many areas. He fears and doubts himself, and I think that gave him some confidence and a dose of reality.

I just need to give him a chance to prove himself, but the waiting is the hardest part.

Calli0pe posted 2/6/2014 18:12 PM

Oh man that's tough. I know how you must feel about the receipt thing. Mine is terrible at stuff Iike that too, which is exactly how I found out about his cheating in the first place.

In my case, when things have seemed fishy, I feel like - without real evidence, and without a gut feeling that he's lying - I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Because my other option is to call him a liar and end it. It's too big a decision to be unsure about, and if he's still lying to me, I feel like it will become clear sooner ratjer than later. Maybe I'm still being naive.

Maybe the hardest part for me has been thinking of my lover as an adversary. So I'm trying not to. My motto lately is, "trust, but verify."
I'm not sure that's helpful, but I wanted you to know I really understand where you're coming from.

crossroads2010 posted 2/7/2014 05:08 AM

I used to tell my H that when I checked up on a suspicion, I was looking to find nothing...to look and find nothing made me feel safer and brought me one step closer to trusting...he never did "get" that. If I am really honest with my self, I wonder if I really look to find something that will end this all together. Someone in another forum brought up an interesting point...if you have to verify, you really aren't trusting...I think no matter what, I will always have to verify some and I will never really trust. I don't verify near as much as I did b/c it was exhausting...I got so very tired of it all.

Calli0pe posted 2/7/2014 07:39 AM

Yeah - maybe I shouldn't have said 'trust, but verify' because you're right I don't trust right now and he knows it - I've made no bones about that. Maybe I should have said, 'don't assume the worst, but verify.'

alifeforesaken posted 2/7/2014 07:50 AM

I understand what you mean. I don't trust him and he knows it, I do need to verify, for now. And I have gotten a little better at how often and how and when I question.

On a side note - I've caught myself unconsciously saying I'm sorry for blah, blah, blah in discussions (I know I have nothing to apologize for)and if I say it, he has told me to stop, I don't owe him an apology, that it's his fault. I should take some comfort in it. It helps in the moment and then I find myself still analyzing later.

roarlouder posted 2/7/2014 08:23 AM

Trust your gut, and verify what you can. For me 4 months after DDay I was losing my will to check into things- it is exhausting and I don't think very healthy. I pulled back on some, but told myself after 11 years of lies, I owed it to myself to check: to either catch him and leave or fill up the trust bucket so I could get to a place sooner where I felt safe and didn't need to.

Unfortunately, I did find things. But I think it could go the other way- if you want to R checking builds trust back up I think.