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TT Killing Chances of R

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FoggedIn posted 2/5/2014 22:45 PM

We've been working our way towards R. We're not there yet, sometimes not even close.

Somedays feel like things are so much better. Then I realize it's because I'm suppressing so much stuff. It's kinda what I do best. So I finally, calmly bring up the dozen questions I have (I've asked before and got either no response or the standard "I don't know/remember) again, in hopes that WH's IC sessions have softened his lying abilities and he will offer the truth.
I'm met with more excuses, rugsweeping, etc. No attempts to prove the reasonings as to why certain things add up in his story. Which if they do add up, then a phone call or 2 would prove it, but they are calls he's not willing to make. Still claims the porn charges on the cc aren't his, had to be DS, but hasn't bothered to confront DS about it. Seems terribly odd he wouldn't be concerned about that, or that he wouldn't quickly want to put that fire out if that is in fact the explanation.

He just still doesn't get it. Doesn't get the fact that there will be no R as long as he's hiding anything. He says he'll just admit to whatever if it's what I need him to do. We all know that means he's not admitting to anything.

Either he's not really invested in reconciliation or really thinks I can or will reconcile even with all the skeletons in his closet.

I don't know how to break this cycle. And we're considering Retrouvaille or another marriage weekend in the next 30 days. Not the best idea!!!

karmahappens posted 2/6/2014 00:09 AM

Hey fogged

Can I just tell you, TT is NOT killing your chance to R, your husband is.

He is lying and manipulating you.

We've been working our way towards R.

I'm met with more excuses, rugsweeping, etc

but they are calls he's not willing to make

Still claims the porn charges on the cc aren't his, had to be DS, but hasn't bothered to confront DS about it.

Look at what you have said here, you know the truth. It's as though you are waiting for him to make these phone calls to suddenly know he is being truthful. You know he is lying.

He is lying and hoping enough time passes that you will eventually shut up and go on rug-sweeping his bullshit.

How you can consider a marriage - therapy weekend with someone who is so completely stuck in asshattery is crazy-making, IMO.

I don't know how to break this cycle.

Yes you do. You are choosing to continue this cycle. You have been posting here for 6 months. You know the 180, you know to get into IC to start making a life for you. You know you need to walk away and start letting him see the life he is choosing.

Why aren't you doing it? Why aren't you giving yourself more respect? Why are you giving him the power to control YOUR life?

Take your control back and start to work on what you can.

You and your life.

You are worth the time, the energy and the love.

He isn't able to offer that to you. Please be willing to give it to yourself.

(((hugs))) You can do this, start to face the truth and take care of you.

norabird posted 2/6/2014 06:40 AM

Ask yourself: are you the only one putting in the effort to R? If your heart whispers yes....remember the SI truism about needing to be willing to lose the marriage to save it.

I'm so sorry you are stuck with what seems to be an unremorseful wayward. I hope you can start pulling your energy out of him and the M and start putting it into yourself. You seem to know that you have boundaries and that TT is part of them. But are there consequences when he disrespects those boundaries?

Sending you strength and hugs today.

FoggedIn posted 2/6/2014 07:32 AM

I know you're right. I was doing such a good job at 180, putting my needs first, moving on. Then I saw a small flash of light when he started IC and I let my guard down. What I failed to admit was most everything I saw from his IC sessions was geared towards him. They were all "I" statements. We would spend 2 hours talking & all the conversation was about him. I let the excitement that we were talking at all outweigh the content of the convo.

I crossed a line last night & read his journal. Something I haven't done even though I have access via the key logger installed on his computer. I now wish I hadn't. :(

He doesn't write much but I read the last 2 days. The first was upbeat & positive as to the direction we are going. After the conversation last night & I asked about his honesty regarding these other issues, his outlook/tone was vastly different. Prepping for D. Talking about the kids future, financial D planning, living arrangements. Fairly intense & involved D talk.

I hate to say that because he knows that lies are a deal breaker, it seems that he's preferring to hold on to his secrets & head towards D.
However I realize from my own journaling, what I write is not always how I feel when the sun comes up.
And yes, I know I know...... I shouldn't have read it! I've had access to it for 5 months & have refrained, once again I wish I hadn't.

I have IC today & I'm soooo glad!

norabird posted 2/6/2014 11:25 AM

It's not easy. But you're facing everything, and that's about all you can do. I hope your IC session today gives you some clarity. (((hugs)))

FoggedIn posted 2/6/2014 16:06 PM

Thank you Norabird.

It got worse....... Opened his computer for practical purposes this morning. To open a publisher file (I run on a Mac).
Anyway as soon as I opened his computer I see an excel sheet. It's a divorce to do list. A punch list if you will.

Change will
Change life insurance beneficiary
Take fogged in off health insurance
Take fogged in off car insurance
Put truck & car in fogged ins name
Change retirement plan beneficiary
Change checking account
Separate investment accounts

Had a list of my investments (strictly my name)
List of his & a list of joint investments.

I had a full meltdown. Wrote a scathing email. He immediately came to my office. Tried to explain that he just wrote that this morning & it wasn't a running list. That after my confronting him about his lack of honesty last night he was sure we were headed to divorce.

1 more hour until my IC. I'm gonna wish I had a 3 hour session booked today!

karmahappens posted 2/7/2014 10:48 AM


There appears to be some serious abandonment issues, he is ready to cut and run before you do...but he needs to figure his shit out. Continually sticking a knife in your back will only kill you.

He can't do this if he even wants to consider fixing this. R is a long process. He will have to carry a heavy load and some days dropping that load will cross your mind and his. If he isn't capable of pushing through and doing the hard work he isn't worth your life.

I hope you find some comfort in IC today.


FoggedIn posted 2/19/2014 14:40 PM


He does have some abandonment issues, yes. His previous marriage ended badly. She had an affair (ironic, that after what he went through, he would choose to do it to me!). He knew it was happening but chose to ignore it until it hit him in the face when he found her journal and read it, all the details about the OM, confronted her and she basically said she was in love with OM. He tried for a while to R, but she finally just walked out, after 10 years of M. Left their 3 kids and everything.

So yes, he has abandonment issues & that I understand. I have crap I've carried from my past into our relationship as well. However I hope that after 12 years of consistency he could see differently. After staying here for 6 months since Dday and NEVER saying D, not once (which doesn't mean it isn't an option, it just means I see no point in throwing it up every time there is a heated argument, not even on Dday). I guess I hoped that he could step back a moment and reevaluate.

outtanowhere posted 2/19/2014 14:52 PM

Fogged, Do you normally use his computer? If you do I suspect this was a calcualted move on his part and, very manipulative. Making a D list and just happened to leave it up so you could see it? hmmmm....

FoggedIn posted 2/20/2014 07:57 AM

Rarely. I have 3 computers so my need to use his only happens when I have a Microsoft specific file I need to access that I don't have a Mac equivocal em program for. It had probably been 4 months since I last used it.

So I don't think he left it up with the hoe I would see it.

outtanowhere posted 2/20/2014 08:57 AM

Just be careful fogged. SA's are masters of manipulation and skilled liars. I found out the hard way.

Ostrich80 posted 2/20/2014 10:44 AM

He is lying and hoping enough time passes that you will eventually shut up and go on rug-sweeping his bullshit.

I agree with this ^^^^
My ws did this. Time passes, still no answers then suddenly your the asshole bringing up "old shit" and ruining a good day. Beating a dead horse..I've heard it all.

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