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Newest Member: bob74 (46035)

User Topic: Please help me understand
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Flame  Posted: 3:19 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everybody and anybody....

I found out my wife was having 2 affairs on the 17th...ive found out more information very slowly and painfully. I was finally coming to terms and actually had a good day today. I felt like maybe for the first time I was actually accepting what had happened.
Well, for some reason I decided to make a plea to the affair partner and ask him for the full story of what happened. I cannot be upset with this man because he believed that my wife was divorced. He was actually very nice and I almost feel pissed at myself for not hating him. haha
Anyway, he very willingly gave me the details and went through things with me and compared and contrasted the real story, with the BS my wife has been PROMISING was the truth for the past 2 weeks. Turns out she lied about a TON of stuff. The big ones were
-She never had protected sex with this partner
-He came in her
-They had sex in a room full of people
-Got kicked out of a pool for skinny dipping
I think you all can imagine how I felt hearing all of this. Especially after finally starting to believe my wife. I called my wife and acted calm. I asked her one more time for the absolute truth, and she promised calmly again that yes, I know everything. I then proceeded to ask her in a very calm manner about all of the things I had found out. She knew she was caught. I had a small 30 minute freak out and told my wife it was officially over and did the whole "no, its seriously over" thing...which at the time I actually believed. After I cooled down, I said I was sorry and that I didnt mean those things. When she arrived home I told her that I loved her, gave her a hug, told her it was okay, and to calm down. After a couple of minutes of that we dove into a 4 hour talk. We went through our entire marriage and told each other the truth about EVERYTHING. It felt nice. It's not over...this doesnt make it better...but it felt relieving...knowing she knew that I had found out everything and had no reason to lie at this point.

NOW FOR MY QUESTION. The past week my wife has made a very very fast progression from being completely remorseful and understanding....to being very irritated with me and rolling her eyes and...well...im sure you all know the game. IS THAT NORMAL????
Look..I get it...this is fucking tiring. I am not pleasant to deal with. I am exhausting. I am a constant detective with all of the questions and all of the crazy long texts. I get how it would be tiring.
TIRING.

NOT ANNOYING.

AND BY THE WAY THIS ISNT EXACTLY A GOOD TIME FOR ME EITHER.
DOES SHE THINK THAT I ENJOY FEELING THIS WAY????? I AM NOT RELISHING THIS IN ANY WAY, I WISH IT WOULD GO AWAY FOREVER.

She told me I was wasting our lives by snooping last night. I WONDER WHY. BECAUSE I COULD TELL I WASNT GETTING THE TRUTH. AND I WASNT.

WASTING OUR LIVES. WTF.

So here I am, talking to a room full of strangers so as not to bother my wife who is the reason I am in this room to begin with.

How did she so quickly go from being sweet to being mean to me? I am now apologizing for being a wreck and being the way I am. Which I mean...it really must suck for anybody to deal with me right now.
HOWEVER....I AM BEING LIKE THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE. THESE ARE NOT MY NORMAL BEHAVIORS. I AM NOT NORMALLY INSANE.
I expect my apologies to be met with things like "Are you kidding me? You have nothing to be sorry for. I completely understand. You have every single right to feel that any way you want" which are all things she has said...but they are now being said with hesitation...like its getting old already (its been two f-ing weeks). TWO WEEKS AND SHES ALREADY ACTING LIKE THIS.
Ugh. I have apologized for everything. For every single thing I have done, for the way I am acting. I really shouldnt have. I read everywhere that that was the wrong move. But what else are you supposed to do when you see that you are irritating the one you love and cant stop. She is my best friend, but she is the source of my pain....so its hard.

Example 1) I asked her if she even reads my texts anymore or if she just scrolls and skims (yes, I have been writing that much) and i expected to be met with "OF COURSE. What you have to say is extremely important to me. How you feel is of value." But instead I am met with "I try to."..........WTF? You try to??? Well dont try to hard....Im totally just over here wanting to write to nobody and wanting nobody to care about my feelings. As if I dont feel like my feelings are fucking worthless already.

Example 2) She just walked in and asked what I was doing. I said "nothing" and hid the screen. She paused. I said "well, I dont want you to read what I'm writing on that blog" she said "why" and I said "because I dont want to bug you with it" and she said nothing....i expected "What? Talk to me. Whats going on."

I dont get it. I guess I really am just that bad. She told me earlier in the night that she needed space and was staying with her parents because she needed some place stable to live.
Is that a joke? YOU need some place stable? I have no clue who I have been married to for the past 5 years and YOU need someplace stable. WELL. DONT LET ME INCONVENIENCE YOU. GO RIGHT AHEAD.

Of course I didnt say any of that, I told her if thats what she needed, then i understand.

Then there is the things she has been saying lately...."I dont think anybody would get as mad as you get over this".....Great....make me feel different and insecure...that really helps me. She said that because I have been going through this ANGER phase where I get really really mad at the facts and I have called her names like "slut" and "whore".

Are you kidding? You really think that I am the only person in this world that would call his wife a slut for having 20 online skype sexual relationships, having two real life affairs, being a sex display for a room full of people....etc. Yeah. Totally over reacting.

I just dont get it. Am I the only person who is going through this? AM I CRAZY!? I think I am crazy.
(Please refrain from any simple minded black and white judgement calls. My wife and I have been through a lot, and I have not been an angel. I have never been abusive, or unfaithful...but I was an addict and put her through a lot...plus we have been through two deployments....its just not that easy to say goodbye)


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
william
41986
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 3:58 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i totally feel you bro.

im a former marine myself and was in a high deployment unit (for one period i was in CONUS a total of 45 - non consecutive - days in a roughly 2 year period). i met my wife LONG after i was out, however.

my wife and i had a pretty bad marriage, the last four years were one of arguing and the last two of those were more or less silent hostility.

during that two year period my wife had 2 one night stands, 1 long term emotional and physical affair, 7-9 "flirting relationships" in which sexting and pics were exchanged (1 of which turned into one of the one night stands and 2 others of which involved at least kisses exchanged).

i got trickle truth from my wife from june of last year. she admitted to the long term affair but claimed only emotional. then she admitted it was sexual. then she admitted to the sexting. then she finally admitted to the one night stands.
i "think" that is "all". i hope so but obviously i cant really be sure ... yet.

has she said if she committed to you, a reconciliation, and marriage? if not, ask.

has she agreed to no contact letters to all of the people she acted inappropriately with?

has she agreed to complete transparency (passwords to everything, etc)?

has she agreed to individual counseling and marriage counseling?

have you laid out "the final truth needs to be told" and what happens if something comes out that substantially varies from her "versions" (aka what you had just happen to you - because even after "having no reason to lie" ... well, my wife continued to lie. partly to protect herself, to hide what she did, fear that it would be too much and i would leave her, and in some twisted way of 'protecting' me). dont count on having the "full truth" yet.

those are all pretty important steps to figure out. but, im new here and in alot of pain .. take what i say with a grain of salt and wait for those wiser and more experienced to come along and make more sense.

i just wanted you to know that i feel you, understand you, and i care.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 589 | Registered: Jan 2014
Sparkle0504
♀ 40379
Member # 40379
Default  Posted: 4:17 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

William has basically covered what I wanted to say. So just offering support and to say you've been heard, similar situation here, icr (((hugs)))


Me 44 (BS) Him 52 (SAWH)
DDay (too many to mention), but 1st 06/2011

The truth hurts, but nowhere near as much as the lies
"Sounds harsh, but she's my wife and I'm supposed to be there when she's having sex" Sal1995


Posts: 257 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: England
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

William. Holy Sh--. You get it. Thank you. I am pretty sure everybody gets it, but I really needed that. I really really needed it. To answer your questions--
Yes, I believe her (trust me, not without reservations) that she is now committed to me and me only. She has agreed to "terms" and reconciliation. I made her take off her rings after I learned that they had been on during two of the sexual encounters. I have been out of the Army for 3 years and thought that it would be a good gesture that I am still in this to write (another) very long heartfelt letter pleading with her for the truth and confessing my love for her and my promise to be a good man....while wearing my Class A's (i cannot believe they still fit....the 15lbs ive lost since all of this was brought to light helps) She immediately cried when she walked in and told me she had been wanting me to do something like that for her for years (But then proceeded to tell me that I knew everything...that was about a week ago..and yeah...you read what I just found out tonight....and a week ago...you can bet that wasnt the last time I begged for full truth)

She has already written no contact letters and had me approve them and i was there when they were sent and I know they were received.

She has agreed to complete transparency and has not given me issues in that regard.

She has agreed to/we have been going to counseling. Were going to before this happened anyway....this just gave us the push. SHE made the appointment and did all of the leg work on that one....pretty much the only thing shes took initiative on though.

We had the 4 hour "final truths" talk this evening...last evening i guess. We went through our ENTIRE relationship and we BOTH told the truth about every single small detail we could. She was very thorough and I believe her now (now that I have the truth from somebody who has no reason to lie to me). The first affair...or 2 night stand...she promised she told me every single detail about...but I dont believe a word about it. It's not that she has said anything that gives me that twinge of being suspicious, its just that I know better. SO, I am probably going to end up contacting that guy too to ask for honesty. (I shouldnt have to ask strangers who screw my wife for mercy for my pain...my wife should see my pain and help me)

The reasons you told me your wife continued to lie were the same reasons she gave to me. Trust me. I am on guard. I will never have that blind faith like I once had in her ever again. I know better now than to trust people.

Thank you thank you thank you for your time. It sucks that strangers care more than she does at this point.


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
norabird
♀ 42092
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are. NOT crazy. Your wife is behaving like a classic wayward. It makes me steaming mad in your behalf!

She does not get it. She is making this about her. She is trying to say it's your fault for reacting like this in order to deflect attention from what she did. Right now, she is sorry she was caught, but that does not equal real remorse.

While she is like this, contact with her is only going to hurt you. I know you want to turn to her with everything and have her fix it. That is normal! No one wants to lose a relationship that meant so much to them. You are feeling huge pain and very reasonably, since she inflicted it, you expect her to help you heal. But she is not thinking about you, only about herself. It compounds the pain in a bad way to get that type of reaction from her. So, as much as you can, try to turn away from her right now. Not to be cruel, just for your sanity. Take some time to focus on yourself.

You are not 'that bad'. She is turning the tables on you. No one is an 'angel' in their relationship--that's life. But it does not mean she had any right or excuse for her affair.

Her desire for space makes me think something else is going on, but at the same time it could be good for you. Get some distance and then try to detach. Pull back and realize that reaching out is only going to hurt you.

And do not for a second let her little irritated act make you doubt your reaction. Finding this out rips everyone apart. What you describe you are feeling is something all of us have experienced too. 'Wasting your lives?' Try again. She just doesn't want to be held accountable for wasting the marriage you had.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Jduff
♂ 41988
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rolfasaurus, YOU are the normal one. Your wife is the crazy one.

Everything you described above with your reaction is quite normal for anyone who is going through emotional trauma, especially after finding out that the one you loved and trusted has betrayed you.

Definitely start the 180. Go to the Healing Library and start reading up on the materials. It will do a lot of help to answer questions for you and clarify your situation further. Yes, you're a mess like all of us betrayed were at the beginning but you need to get strong in physically and mentally because you will be making some very tough choices down the road and you want to make those from a position of strength. Also consider IC (individual counseling).

Your wife is rug sweeping and running from accountability. The more you chase the more she will run away from you. It is the script that almost all WS follow. Make sure to read the many stories in this forum and you will understand. You are not alone, and we certainly know the pain and the struggle you are going through.

Hang in there. More wiser and experienced folks will reply with excellent wisdom and support.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Justgreatnews
♂ 41666
Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She's trying to dodge things, protect herself, and manipulate you into sweeping things under the rug.

She has not faced the music, and does not seem (to me) to be truly remorseful. She's acting like a kid that gets caught at something, trying to minimize and redirect blame.


Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
lordhasaplan?
♂ 30079
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rolf,
First a few things I see in here. Your wife is not remorseful for her actions, she is a selfish monster. She get to go have sexual interludes walking out of the marriage. Then come back on her terms, her self me, me tone angers the hell out of me. A few things. 1. YOU CAN NOT NICE YOUR WIFE BACK. This will never work, she knows you will never level consequences her way so she continues to be selfish and manage this on her terms, lies, obfuscation, entitlement are the tools of the selfish wayward monster, and that is what she is. She needs to be treated as such. She is the enemy until you see the crying, mascara running I am so sorry will you ever forgive me, what can I do to make this right, its all my fault drama crash.
2. Get tested for STD's now. She had unprotected sex, with many men. If she is having sex in public around others my bet is this is just the tip of the iceberg. She has probably had more men, and high risk scenarios.
2. Are these OM married? If so their spouses should be notified so they can get tested and choose the course of their marriages as well.
3. You need t see a divorce lawyer and learn your rights. learn how to protect yourself and how this might play out when and if you decide to divorce.
4. Get into IC now. You are codependent on a dead marriage. Your no longer married she killed that marriage with her actions and broken vows. You need to decide if you want to engage in a rebuilding of a new marriage with this monster. Her actions are saying you should run like hell.
5. WATCH her actions! they tell you everything. Don't listen to what she says watch what she does. She is lies, minimizing, controlling outcomes and managing the situation. You need to go on the offensive, get pissed, and lay out what you need to stay in a relationship with her. then tell her what the consequences are for not following through. IF she doesn't follow thorough levy consequences.

Look I am reconciled with a selfish wayward bitch reformed. If can work. But not if your going to be nice, draw a line in the sand and demand to be treated respectfully. Right now she is disrespecting you constantly.
LHAP?


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1936 | Registered: Nov 2010
kellys2014
♀ 42306
Member # 42306
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't help you understand, because I don't understand either. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I found out (D-Day) on Saturday. My husband is remorseful FOR NOW, but I still have this feeling like I have to walk on eggshells, not get entry, not act weak, in order to "keep" him remorseful. Like he's really, deeply, so very sorry, but only to a point or for so long and then he won't want to live like this. He acts like other things I've suggested (Are you planning to run away and marry her? Was there anyone before her?) are ridiculous.

It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous that I have to ask these questions. Ridiculous, but not unreasonable. Because HE (and in your case SHE) is ridiculous and WE are reasonable. This is US responding REASONABLY to RIDICULOUSNESS. And they have the nerve not to like it!?

I, like you, just want him to say and do all the right things to get back into my good graces and rebuild trust and this marriage. But I feel like he wants to skip that step and just have the marriage again and put all the horrible stuff that he did in the past. It definitely makes me feel like I am going crazy. I have to keep reminding myself that this is not the person I thought he was. I don't know if he ever was the person I thought he was. I don't know if he ever will be the person I thought he was, again.

Anyway, I have no answers for you or myself. I trusted mine so completely for the almost 15 years we've been together and 11 years married that I didn't even realize what trust was. It just always was. Now that I know what he was really up to, I realize why people who have been hurt have a hard time trusting others. These pathetic excuses for human beings have messed us up. And claim they are remorseful. But continue to mess us up with their half-truths, omissions, unwillingness to be totally transparent, impatience, or whatever. To be upset with us for being angry?! So you called her a slut and a whore? Of course you did!! She behaved like a slut and a whore! You don't owe her an apology for being angry, humiliated, hurt, betrayed, and upset!!

I am not a person who normally ever swears, but... I f'ing hate them all.

I'm so sorry this happened to you and to all of us. We didn't deserve to be treated so cruelly by the people we trusted most in the world. They suck, not us. And at the end of all this, we are going to be okay. They may or may not be, but we are going to be better than okay, because we are not horrible heartless monsters, but trusting, caring people who deserve to be happy. I'm going to keep reading the 180 stuff focus on myself and my kids - not him or our relationship - and detach for a while before I decide if I want to open the door to reconciliation. I hope you do too.

Hang in there. You are NOT crazy and this situation is NOT fathomable.


Me: 36
WH: 44
DS: 7
DD: 5

His AP: 24, former family friend and babysitter

Married 11 1/2 yrs

D-Day: 2/1/2014 3 month PA, 24 months sexting


Posts: 43 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
Edith
♀ 38337
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Rolf,
...."I dont think anybody would get as mad as you get over this".....

She would not have wanted to see me....

I actually highly advocate property damage. It helps you process your anger and direct it toward inanimate objects, i.e., her favorite shoes. You may want to set them ablaze in the back yard. It will help you demonstrate your feelings to her in a way that will get her attention. I have also been known to swing a 20-pound sledge hammer at certain points...

You have been given good advice. I hope you will look at the 180 and put it to practice. My H was angry and an overall jerk when he was still lying/still in contact with skank.

Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 423 | Registered: Feb 2013
doggiediva
♀ 33806
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I may sound bitter already but here goes,

After what she did, your WW doesn't get to roll her eyes at you or be irritated with you..This is the normal fall out for her nasty A behavior..

She deserves and is gonna need to deal with the rug being pulled from under her feet..One doesn't betray another and expect the relationship to be repaired as new/undamaged..

If she wants the marriage she is gonna have to deal with some discomforts and lifestyle changes and carry the weight for R..She is gonna have to understand your lack of trust in her and your need to protect yourself from her legally and financially..

If she doesn't want the marriage she is gonna have to deal with discomforts and lifestyle changes while you strive to protect yourself legally and financially..

She should not get assurances from you that you are gonna R...She needs to see limbo.. When you see the actions of her doing work to repair the damage she caused ( over the long term) and feel that she has your concerns/ healing as her priority you may begin to feel warmer towards her and she will sense this....It may be at this time that you guys will evaluate/discuss where the M is headed..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1424 | Registered: Nov 2011
Skan
♀ 35812
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My brother-in-arms, I'm going to apologize in advance if I sound harsh. I'm a former corpsman. We have a tendency to see an abscess and get in there and lance it, for the sake of the health of the person with it. And that quite often hurts that person, a lot.

In my experience, an un-repentant, un-remorseful WS views a BS that shows vulnerability, love, pain, anguish, and all of those softer emotions, like a hyena views a baby gazelle. As lunch. It is like you are throwing off dinner vibes to them come and get it! The opening in the enemy's line right into their soft underbellies. And they go for it, pretty much every darn time. Sometimes they can be sneaky about it saying pretty things to you that you want to hear while doing whatever they damned well please action-wise. Sometimes they just are plain nasty, roll their eyes, and tell you to pull up your big-boy britches and get over it fer the love-o-gawd!

This is the time to be very strong, very focused, and very detached. My way or the highway. She doesn't like it? Well hell, you don't like the fact that multiple men have been ball's deep in her! Slut's the word whores at least get paid!

Look up the 180 in The Healing Library (yellow box in upper left corner) and implement it. Detach. Detach so that you can see clearly, what you will and will not tolerate anymore. Give that to her as a statement of fact: if you want any chance to R, you will do the following, you will be utterly transparent with x-devices, and you will go to IC to figure out what's broken in you. Or whatever your demands are. The only acceptable answer is yes, of course, and the only acceptable actions after that are those that show you that she is following your demands. Any other answer, including and especially, I don't know, or I'm not sure no. No you finding a good divorce lawyer and starting the paperwork.

To make it really short and simple, Actions, meet Consequences.

The time to show your loving side is when she has PROVEN to you by her consistent ACTIONS over TIME that she is fully committed to you, the marriage, and to getting to the bottom of why this was OK in her mind to do so that it won't happen again. Then, you show her any tenderness or love that might be present. But until and unless that happens, you need to be a Lion, not a baby gazelle.

This is rough stuff. I know. I'm going to also suggest that you take a stroll to the I Can Relate forum and talk to the guys on the Betrayed Men's thread. I think that you can get a lot of help from them. And hang in there. We got your back.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 5237 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
TOMTEFAR
♂ 39257
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your W is crule and stupid. She doesn't get it and fracly I don't Think she loves you. Somebody that loves you would not behave that way. Either she doesn't love you or she has a psycological condition that makes her unable to empathise with others hurt.

You need to grow a set of balls. Why are you apologizing? That just makes you look weak. She is driving this train and you are letting her.

Read a book called "Married mens sex primer" by Athol Kay. The title is somewhat missleading. I Think it is available for free as a pdf if you google it.

Also sit your W down and tell her that you will not accept her behaviour. She either tells you the enire truth and stop her shitty behaviour or you will file for D. It is a common truth in many of these cases that "you must be prepared to loose her to win her back". So if she doesn't meet your expectations you do file for D! SHe needs to get a slap in the face...

I would also have her take a poly if you are able.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Target  Posted: 4:31 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hahahha. Jesus I f-ing love all of you people already. I cannot believe the amount of support there is here. It melts my heart and helps more than anybody knows. (I mean, you all know.)
Tom:
You need to grow a set of balls. Why are you apologizing? That just makes you look weak. She is driving this train and you are letting her.

MY. FAVORITE.
Dude. Polygraph. Why did I never think of that? BRILLIANT. That thought honestly never crossed my mind, but that is so smart. I cant get ahold of the other affair partner, and I cant just take her word for what happened...oh man. thank you.
Kelly
but I still have this feeling like I have to walk on eggshells, not get entry, not act weak, in order to "keep" him remorseful

Holy shit do I know how that feels. For that first week I was thinking "jesus, I wish i found out my wife had an affair every day...she is giving me the love and attention that I always needed and never got"....I get the need to "keep" them remorseful. Totally. Plus....she should REMAIN remorseful....BECAUSE OF WHAT SHE DID. I was terrified of exactly what has been happening...maybe I had a moment where I was nice or pleasant and she thought "OHP! I HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN!!!" and then its all happy cherries. Then when I freak the fuck out again she gets pissed like "What...i thought it was over?" (she never said that, but thats the attitude) FUCK NO. You think that because I fucked you in a fit of crazy unexplainable horniness because i need a way to escape pain that you are forgiven? NO. I did it because I need to fuck somebody. She is the LAST person i want to fuck right now....but you know what, IM not an asshole. I KEEP MY PROMISES. So I will have sex with her and TAKE THE SLOPPY SECONDS.
I, like you, just want him to say and do all the right things to get back into my good graces and rebuild trust and this marriage. But I feel like he wants to skip that step and just have the marriage again and put all the horrible stuff that he did in the past.

WOW. YES. You nailed it. She wants to skip the whole dealing with her consequences thing and just to the rebuilding part....What???? NO. SORRY. YOU HAVE TO SUFFER NOW LIKE ME. Anyway, I am so sorry you are going through this too. Man. You just found out on saturday? Jesus. You are smarter than I am and stronger than I am. I didn’t even want to talk to anybody for the first week. Didn’t want to see anybody. The fact that you are reaching out so soon is awesome.
I have no answers for you or myself. I trusted mine so completely for the almost 15 years we've been together and 11 years married that I didn't even realize what trust was. It just always was.

That describes us to a T. Well, I lost her trust during my addiction. I lost it completely. She could not trust a word out of my mouth, but I have taken actions to earn it back. Plus, I wasn’t using drugs to hurt her, I was sick and it was something I couldn’t stop. It was about me, not about her. With her…I have NEVER had trust issues. EVER. I never ever snooped through any of her stuff, I think I might’ve checked her Facebook and email like a few times throughout our 8 years together…but it was always just so futile because I never found anything and it was ridiculous to even question that she would cheat because of how faithful of a person she had demonstrated to be (this IS out of character for her…just totally out of character…our whole family…hers included is in utter disbelief and horror). During those four months I had no reason to trust her. I was always very proud of the fact that I had no problems with letting her go out with a girlfriend for drinks. My father is completely different. He is so controlling and does not let my mom do anything. He is suspicious and paranoid (AND HE IS THE ONE THAT HAS CHEATED ON HER)…so trust has been a point of pride in our marriage. My mother always commended me on not being jealous or afraid of her having a night out with her friends. She totally took advantage of my trust. I had no reason to question anything. Because of that she didn’t even feel the need to hide anything. It would’ve been so easy for me to find out, but I just didn’t have any reason to doubt anything she said. Anyway, thank you for your post.

As per Tom, I have taken my balls back from my wife.

Last night my the bullshit finally came to an end with my wife.
I had just gotten done having lunch with both of her parents (who are just as devastated as I am....they are just....so ashamed of her right now) I told them that my intentions were to stick by her side and explained to them how committed I was to her and how I wanted her to go to counseling and figure out what it was that made her make these HORRIBLE choices. Another reason I needed to talk to them is that I had to do a 9th step with them and make my amends....which went well. The conversation ended with us all talking about how much we loved her and just wanted the old her back, and that even normal single people dont make the decisions she made in that 4 month time period. We just didnt get it. AND her father insisted on giving us a $15,000.00 loan to pay off all of our debt (figured out a payment plan, and he isnt accepting any interest...crazy generous guy.) so that we had one less problem to deal with and we could focus on healing. My wife was having a stressful day at work, so I told her that when she comes home, we would limit the talking to one hour, and the rest of the night would be a normal evening and we should relax. I told her that the news I had for her would take a huge weight off of her shoulders and she would be coming home to a peaceful environment (a lot of why I think shes been a bitch lately is because of the lack of being able to predict what kind of mood she will be coming home to).
ANYWAY, she came home in a bitchy mood and told me to give her five minutes without any talking so she could get comfortable. WOW. SUUURE. Anything you say princess. So I did just that. When we finally sat down to talk she says these words

"Okay, lets get this over with."

I snapped. I finally realized that i could not believe I was putting up with this behavior out of a woman who I have blindly trusted and been 100% faithful and loving towards. The next 30 minutes werea display of sarcastic assholery on my end, speaking as she has been speaking...but the way I interpret it. I left. Grabbed my Ipad, and my intent was to sit at the park. It's my go to place when I've had enough. My mother just happened to call me and she is a BS herself. She had a ton of good advice, but mostly she was just a listening ear. The biggest thing she told me is to not be a doormat. Dont grovel. It gives them power when they dont need anymore.
Despite reading this SO many times in so many different articles...for some reason it clicked when she said it. I came home and my wife tried to say she was sorry and give me a hug. No. Sorry. I laid down the fucking law. I did what you all suggested. I let her know that her behavior would not be tolerated, and that I would not stand for it. If she continued I would leave.
This morning I was still feeling strong (thank god) and I decided that I was not going to shield her from the opinions of others anymore. I decided to tell her that right now, my family wants me to leave her. Which is contrary to her belief....my family has been with us through a lot and my wife has usually been the one who is the caretaker while I was a mess of an addict. So, naturally my parents are less hard on her than they would be another woman. But I have sugar coated it for sure lately. I told my wife that my parents love her and they were not mad and they just want us to be happy.
Which is not true.
My parents are furious. My mom is in mother bear mode. My dad is disgusted. My brother is appalled. Nobody is not mad at her. Her behavior is disgusting, immoral, disrespectful, cruel, and just flat out STUPID (what kind of person has unprotected sex with a stranger? Not only that, but they had unprotected sex EVERY TIME AFTER THAT. PROTECTION WAS NEVER USED BETWEEN HER AND THIS AP) DISGUSTING. I had sex with her during that time period!!! I got sloppy seconds!!! WTF?! That is not just bad behavior, it is stupid behavior. The guy came INSIDE of her the first time they fucked in a room full of people! WHAT. THE. FUCK. ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING. SURE. TRUST SOME RANDOM DUDE IN A BAR. HE TOTALLY LOOKS CLEAN! HE SEEMS TRUSTWORTHY! HAHA. So stupid. SO . fucking stupid.
Just an hour before that she was skinny dipping at the hotel pool with her girlfriend and a group of people and hooking up with the dude in the pool...they got kicked out of the pool for skinny dipping. WHAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR IS THAT FOR A MARRIED WOMAN!!??!?!?!??!?!?! IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
That sort of public display is such an outward display of disrespect for me.
"I DONT GIVE A FUCK WHO KNOWS IT. I AM CHEATING ON MY HUSBAND. I DONT RESPECT HIM ONE BIT! EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE BODY THAT I PROMISED WAS EXCLUSIVELY MY HUSBANDS' GET FUCKED AND CAME INSIDE BY THIS RANDOM DUDE!!! EVERYBODY COME AND GET IT!!! ITS BALLS DEEP IN ME TIME!!"

BACK to the point.
This morning I said I am fed up. I said I know I told her i was committed, but I am not going to fuck over the rest of my life because I made a promise. Because of a promise I made to a woman who does not have the ability to comprehend what a promise is. No. So I said she has two months to prove to me that she is worth staying with. At that point I will decide what I want to do with her sorry ass.

Thanks for the support. You guys are angels.


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OH
I really meant to respond to SKAN too:
You do not sound harsh, and it is impossible to take anybody's advice here harshly. Tough love is the game with advice to BS who are weak.
I dont need to quote anything you said....it just all hit me to the core. That advice was golden, and I dont know what it is about you medics and corpsmen(women), but you always are so damn smart and wise beyond your years ( I loved our platoon medic and he is one of my very good friends even after the Army. I have never met a medic I didnt like)
This is the time to be very strong, very focused, and very detached. My way or the highway. She doesn't like it? Well hell, you don't like the fact that multiple men have been ball's deep in her! Slut's the word whores at least get paid!

YEEEESSSSSS!!!!! MAN. Exactly. Those words could be etched into a statue of God shitting on a WS.


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
jb3199
♂ 27673
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:06 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry, friend, but there is a lot of work ahead of you. Eventually, it will start to become clearer and clearer.

Two things for you to think about right now:

(1) You are an emotional mess. You know it, and we understand it. Your mind is running a thousand miles per hour on empty. Your moods swing violently from one extreme to the other. THIS IS NORMAL. But it is important that you can recognize this, and work on control/direction of your thoughts.

(2) You are not dealing with a remorseful spouse. You are dealing with a regretful, resentful, fucked up spouse. And you need to take a firmer stance. You need to be moving away from this environment.

ANYWAY, she came home in a bitchy mood and told me to give her five minutes without any talking so she could get comfortable. WOW. SUUURE. Anything you say princess. So I did just that. When we finally sat down to talk she says these words

"Okay, lets get this over with."

You do realize that this is all about control, don't you? And I don't care how much of a verbal whip-down you put on her after that---it won't change much, if anything....from her perspective. And the two month deadline? Why? Are you honestly ready to walk away after that deadline passes, and she behaves similar to now?

Here is what you need to do(some things will be easier than others)---STOP APOLOGIZING. If the worst that she gets from you is some verbal tirades...this close after D-day...then so be it. You can work on yourself to try to control these outbursts, but let me repeat--stop the apologies.

Next, and this is the tough one--start moving away from this infidelity. By that, I mean that it is time to consult an attorney. Separate finances. Basically, start to position yourself to live life without her. That includes a possible divorce. You stated before that you give her two months to shape up. What if she doesn't? But the more important question I have for you is---why wait?

The real deadline that you should be setting is one of immediacy. She isn't fully remorseful and committed? Fine--start the process of separating emotionally and legally. No future deadlines or ultimatums---the work starts for her NOW, or you start the departure process. This will make a whole lot more sense to you further down the timeline. You will understand that inaction on your part is even more destructive to your healing.

Detach. Read and reread the 180. Your head is so screwed up right now that it is almost impossible to know if what you are doing is right or wrong. What we are trying to do, is read your posts, interpret both of your mindsets(because we have been there, and done that), and let you know what you should be focusing on. It's that simple. But the hard part is for you to take what information is right for you---and apply it to your circumstances.

It is a learning process.

One last thing:

That describes us to a T. Well, I lost her trust during my addiction. I lost it completely. She could not trust a word out of my mouth, but I have taken actions to earn it back. Plus, I wasn’t using drugs to hurt her, I was sick and it was something I couldn’t stop. It was about me, not about her.

Change the words "her" to "him", and "she" to "he", and "drugs" to "sex".

Except for you taking actions to redeem yourself, how is this not a near identical circumstance? You betrayed her, you lost all trust, you were 100% selfish, and it was your CHOICE. And you now know how wrong that you were. She was fully within her rights to leave you.

She betrayed you, lost all of your trust, she was 100% selfish, and it was her CHOICE.

Addictions are usually very selfish and very destructive. And they start with poor boundaries and decisions. I hope that she can learn to realize hers.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 6:07 AM, February 8th (Saturday)]


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 22yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2147 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
TOMTEFAR
♂ 39257
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm happy you found your balls rolfasaurus.

Now I will tell you 2 things that are very true.

1. To win her back you must be prepared to loose her. (THis means that you need to show strength, show her that you can do fine without her, show her that you realy don't need her etc... She needs to understand and beleive this and that she has to fight for you. THe downside to this is that you might loose her, but then again you would either way in that case. It might just take a bit longer)

2. The one with the least to loose is in control. (This means that the one least invested, the one who wants the M the least is the one who is in Control. You need to make her beleive this, even if it is not the case.)

Fullfilling these 2 things gives you a good chance of saving your M if it is saveable. Your W might just be finnished but if she is not then this will give you the best chance.

So how do you do this? There are many Tools for you to use:

1. 180
2. Never back down from an ultimatum
3. Read MMSP ("Married Mans Sex Primer" by Athol Kay)
4. Never beg or whine.
5. Always present a strong front. Fake it until you make it.

There's a lot more you can do. Read the healing library.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JB-
Thank you for your long response and taking the time out of your day to try to help a complete stranger. I cannot, CANNOT thank you enough for your time. I really am still in disbelief at the amount, and length of responses by members here. You guys all really care take the time and its cool.

Secondly, you might have gotten the wrong impression. The purpose of my response was to say that the apologizing for things I shouldnt be sorry for has stopped.
HOWEVER
I will do the right thing-NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES-I will not compromise my morals just because of someone elses actions-I AM NOT THE WAYWARD-I have dignity, I have integrity. THEREFOR, when I do something wrong...like call her disgusting...or have an outburst and say something completely horrible, or say something I do not mean...I am going to apologize for my actions. I am not going to stoop to the level of being a nasty person, for the sake of making myself look powerful. I can be powerful in ways that are not compromising of my values. I do not beg for forgiveness, I do not grovel, but I do apologize in a serious, stern, sincere fashion. Then I give the reasons behind my actions. If she can't accept that her extreme actions are the reason why I am a ticking timebomb right now...well thats it. She doesnt have the ability to put herself in my shoes...

I stood up and told her, that her behavior is not acceptable, and she is still holding onto her pride and self image. The purpose of the 2 month time period...and its not a deadline...Let me reexplain.
I told her
"I will not be making any commitments to stay or go until 2 months have passed. After that if you have proved that you are fighting for us, doing the right things, are remorseful, and repentant, at that time we will look at a direction in which we will move...be it divorce or reconciliation."
The two month thing isnt necessarily a deadline, its more of a probation period because of her actions of irritation and basic lack of effort to understand how I feel. It's basically a second chance to snap out of her bullshit and act remorseful and understanding and understanding of her ANIMALISTIC actions and how they affect not only me, but our families. It's a second chance I AM GIVING HER BY CHOICE to take action. If it doesn't happen, I'm gone...no compromise. Like you said, it is impossible for me to know what I am doing is right or wrong...which is another HUGE reason why I am giving this a set time period that I cant go back on to let my head clear.
Something hit her a couple nights ago-like I said-maybe it was hearing that people are really telling me to leave her, and that other people see her as not remorseful too, but she *seems* to have snapped out of it and I got the "Mascara running down the face, snot bubble apology and begging for forgiveness and for me to stay" that I was looking for. She did this just after I found out, but I didnt believe it. I BELIEVE HER now. I BELIEVE she wants this. She *gets* it. She has made everything about me and my comfort. She has been amazing (the past two days....we will see how and if this keeps going or is an act). She *seems* (at this moment) to be full of guilt and depression about how far from her morals her actions truly were, and how disgusting she was acting. When I poke a sarcastic joke about the event, she no longer takes it, she looks absolutely destroyed and guilty and ASHAMED for herself. I FINALLY got the behavior I should've been getting this whole time. I finally see SHAME in her eyes instead of defensiveness and shielding so she can retain her self image and ego.
She realizes and has realized that her actions are EXACTLY as bad as mine where when I was in my addiction. Believe me, the conversation of who's fuck up was worse has come up. Although, I believe it is comparing apples to oranges, I feel she has lost more of my trust than I lost of hers during my addiction. I NEVER made an assault on the basic foundation of our marriage. I didn't break our vows. To have and to hold IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH. I was sick. What is her excuse? I had an addiction that I could not control without a radical change in my life. She knew about my addiction before we even started dating. She knew it was a part of my life. She knew it could be a possibility that I could relapse. What I did brought myself down and her down with me. What she did was an attack on our VOWS. She deliberately hurt me. She knew what she was doing would be a direct blow to me...not just something she did to herself that also brought me down...she took an action that brought me down.
I hate this topic. Her mother and father seem to have this eye for an eye attitude like I owe her a second chance because she stayed with me through my troubles. I guarantee that if my troubles were that I wasnt faithful, it would a different story.

SHE took her actions, why is my addiction even in the discussion? I created the environment where she could cheat (Which is strange because I had been sober for a couple months when she first decided to cheat) but no matter what the environment in our marriage, there is no excuse for her actions. She chose that route. She took those actions. She chose to do something that not even a single person should be doing.

Tom-I am putting (and have for the last couple days) into practice your five points. I have been good so far. I WILL NOT back down from this. If that behavior shows its head ONE more time, thats it. I wont put up with it.

[This message edited by rolfasaurus at 3:48 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
rolfasaurus
♂ 42348
Member # 42348
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, my view is that it isn't my job to win her back. It's her's to win ME back. If she wants this, she needs to prove it. I am going to continue with my life.


Serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.

Posts: 47 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
RealityBlows
♂ 41108
Member # 41108
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bro, EVERYTHING you are feeling is righteous and normal and you have every right to feel it. If she has a problem with ANY of it, she is failing to show empathy which is one of the basic tenets of reconciliation. The WS is prone to down play and trivialize-even to themselves, what they did out of desperate self and marital preservation. It is hard for the human mind to except that they did something so horrible to someone they love-but they must! She must fully embrace those basic Tenets of reconciliation or she must go. I have discovered that there is a world full of great gals waiting for me should my wife f*ck this up. So far she is doing great with only an occasional minor slip-up. The Tenets are:

-TOTAL transparency, TOTAL emotional intimacy. No sharing things with others that she would not share with you.
-TOTAL Remorse and Regret
-TOTAL Empathy (this sometimes must be learned. Many Waywards think less of their affairs, or trivialize them and actually can't understand or appreciate the impact. Some low self-esteem Waywards can't believe they are so loved or deserving of such an emotional response and will say things like, "I didn't realize you loved me so much")Empathy implies that they will school themselves thoroughly on the symptoms of the betrayed spouse. They will avoid triggers. They will respect the BS's new insecurities. They will nurse us back to health. They will be very, very patient. They will not impose timelines. Their attitude must be, "I will do whatever it takes, and for however long it takes, because I love you that much, and I vowed in sickness and in health..."
-TOTAL NC (Emotionally and Physically). They must be WILLING to go to great extremes to accomplish this.
-They must fully appreciate the gift of reconciliation.
-They should never claim or imply that you had anything to do with their poor choices.
-They must commit to an honest course of self discovery-such as IC, self improvement or other actions that will prevent this from ever happening again. They can't just sweep it under the carpet and hope it never happens again.
-They must accept that things will never be the same and should be forever grateful that they were able to salvage what they could of the marriage and cherish what they have left.
-They must re-commit to the marriage for the right reasons. Not for the kids, not for the security, property or anything less. The WS must return to the marriage only if they honestly feel like YOU are the one. That YOU fill all of their emotional and sexual needs.

And what TOMTEFAR said. There is nothing more attractive than someone with some self respect, and nothing more repulsive than a clingy, whiny, begging spouse. But, don't be a dick.

There's more here on this excellent site.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 5:58 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


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