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hopefaithlove4 posted 2/8/2014 07:20 AM

Third post in 24 hours. I'm a mess. Six months out from DD of my LTA and my husband has been angry for two days now. I'm on the couch tonight. We had been doing good for about a week but the anger always comes back. He gave me a hug before leaving for work this mornin (after a rough night) and emailed that he wanted to put this away for the weekend. When he's not angry he says he's just been ignoring it. Tonight, after watching a movie, I asked him if he could see the love in my eyes. This was a requirement from him early on. He said a person in love should show it in their eyes. He replied "sometimes" then got angry with me.

I can't bring up anything affair related. He does not want to talk about anything, refuses to IC because this is my mess. Yet sometimes he is still affectionate with me with hugs, etc.

I don't know what to do. I suspect part of this is because 1: he's anxious about traveling the next two weeks, thinking he can't trust me and 2: he's seeing my acceptance of a job offer as benefiting me and not the family. Therefore, I am not making my family a priority like I said I would. He said it is obvious that the job is because I'm afraid he'll leave. I admit that drives it--fear he'll leave and I won't be able to support myself. There are other factors, too, but, yes, at ths point they are secondary. I have a husband that refuses to talk to me about anything in our relationship, threatens to leave, says at best we can have an open relationship because he's having an affair at some point, actually did open a match.com account and start talking with a woman, has changed all his phone, iPad, email passwords, and has stopped MC. He also applied for a different job in a different state without telling me, saying we may all go or he may go. He doesn't know. Two months ago he wanted to R. Now he's not sure and says he's tired of my shit all these years. All the bad has cancelled anything good. He told me Dec 26 he wanted to separate. I begged him not to. We do still have good moments together and work well as a family and in other areas of our lives.

What do I do about the anger?
What do I do about this job? Do I decline it because it helps me more than the family now? It actually pays enough that I could take care of myself if divorced, it's a family-friendly company close by, and offers remote access if I need to stay home with a sick kid. The odds of me finding another like this are slim. Am I just justifying out of fear? Do I take it because it gives me some solid footing for myself? Damn it, I don't know what to do.
What do I do about the open marriage threats?

--I finished this post in the morning. After 1/2 hour on the couch he came out and said I could come to bed as long as I didn't talk. Then he initiated the snuggling and we did slep that way off and on throughout the night.

I'm just lost and need input. BS insight is welcome, too. I am trying.

smez posted 2/8/2014 07:41 AM

hopefaithlove4,

First, take a big breath. I'm sure that you are very scared right now. Fear is a terrible place to make decisions.

1. The job. I read in previous posts that you thought part of the A was you being lonely at home. Part of recovering from an A is becoming a better person, a different person. If taking the job will help you get there, than yes, you should take the job. Not only will it give you financial stability (I'm always one to plan for worst case scenario) but it will give you an outlet. As a WOHM, if it works with two kids, TAKE IT. It's hard to find jobs that are accommodating to the needs of a women with children.

2. The open marriage. You hurt his pride. After my BS found out about the A, there was lot of talk about wife number 2. Instead of getting angry about it, I said "Okay". You want to go out and have an A or find wife number 2, knock yourself out and good luck. I can't stop you and I won't. That pretty much killed all open marriage talk.

3. The anger is to be expected. What is he getting out the anger? Is it moving anything forward? Why is he angry is probably the more important question? Can he articulate what exactly he is angry at? You, the world...etc. Anger without purpose or logic is just unproductive.

ShedSomeLight posted 2/8/2014 07:45 AM

BS here. Why did you not go to therapy together right away ?? At 6 months, I think he should be past some of the anger. If he does not talk about it... it will be tough to move in a positive direction. Being a BS is a rollercoaster ride. My emotions were all over the place. Will he go to therapy ?? I think you need a third party professional to help you. As far as his threats to go out an have an open relationship...I think that is his anger talking. He needs to open up and talk about his feelings. Did you try to ask him if he will join you in therapy ??

Jovie posted 2/8/2014 09:26 AM

I really think IC would help him with his anger. It's frustrating to hear when people are so against IC when it could be so helpful.

Something our MC suggested last week to BH to deal with the anger was to set a daily appointment with yourself for 3-5 minutes per day to be angry. Scream, cry, hit a punching bag, whatever feels necessary. And if you feel it creeping back to you later on in the day, try to save it for your appointment. Idk how effective it may be. Anger is definitely expected, but it is so unproductive if it's anger over the past.

BH has said he thinks I'm doing what I can right now to make it better, and there's nothing that can be done to change the past. So I guess the anger will fade over time...

SpotlessMind posted 2/8/2014 13:58 PM

Hey HopeFaith--

((((Hugs))))

I feel for your confusion and sense of helplessness--I've struggled with both post-DDay.

I think if the job is to improve YOU, then you should strongly consider taking it. Because as hard as it can be to accept, YOU are the only thing you can control.

It sounds like your husband is hurting and lashing out, and that is totally understandable. But I feel like expectations go both ways. If you are transparent and it's not okay for you to be on dating sites, I'd think that the same should apply to him. Are you okay with his actions and if not, have you talked to him? Because if he has an affair, he needs to know that is his choice, and the responsibility for the fall-out is all on him. Not you, as he seems to think. An entitlement affair is still an entitlement affair, based on selfishness and a lack of consideration for your partner, no matter when it occurs.

If he won't go to IC, what about MC? If neither, what about books? Audiotapes? Online affair recovery course?

Just tossing out some options, but the bottom line is--you can only control YOU. Do the best you can, do the right things, be honest and vulnerable, work to heal yourself, your M, and your BS. But you can't force him to meet you halfway.

And you are allowed to have boundaries, too.

hopefaithlove4 posted 2/8/2014 15:21 PM

Smez--The job has +/-s like any other. It's not a WOH position but does allow for flexibility if the employee needs it. Still an office job.

I just don't know. If they A wasn't in the picture, I wouldn't take it. We just launched a start-up right before DD and that is keeping me busy, too. It was my husband's idea, meets a demand in his industry, and was something he wanted for us to do together. So, I'm torn because I have been enjoying that as well as the 15 hours I work at the school. The side biz is fun, no guarantees, hardly in the black now, but pretty cool to be doing. However, his talk of vengenance/revenge/leaving has not lessened and he will not open up about anything. He absolutely well not talk unless it's to get angry.

He had wanted me not to look for a job while we're going through this and not to look for one even if we separate. He pointed out that I'm going back on my word of placing the family first and making the 3 of them a priority because this job is for me. A part of me can't argue that. A part of me says if this is what I need for some stability and sanity in my life, so I'm on firm ground, then do it. If he leaves, I honestly don't feel that I will be in any healthy mental frame of mind to start looking for work.

I am supposed to start the 17th and am torn and will discuss this more in IC this week. Now, I am tempted to decline the position. He had also said, "no, you need to fulfill your commitment to these people". I replied, "It's a job. I will fulfill my commitment to you and the family." But am I just crazy and setting myself up?

Shed--We were in MC right from the beginning until up to Christmas. He wanted to stop it. Didn't feel he was getting anything from it and doesn't want to go because he doesn't want to make a decision right now. My IC started around December.

The anger: It comes and goes. He says that when he thinks about the A it doesn't come as hard, but it does come. The anger he can sometimes cope with. Is it positive? I'm not sure. I guess if having me bear witness to it is, then yes.
He is angry thinking the past was for naught. That everything has been a waste. It comes in many forms. The loss of what he thought the past was. The idea of who I am--I am now always the wife that cheated on him. I bust my butt for this family and I can't do anything right. He says that. Anything I do right now or the future is cancelled out by my past. I can't win against my past and I know he will either need to decide the past wins or that our future looks better than the past. But right now, I'm competing against my past and there's no way I can win.

And the fact that I can't change the past doesn't help. I've done it. I'm that person. I'll always have that black mark.

Joanh posted 2/8/2014 15:55 PM

Yep ,its true we can't beat out past it is what it is. And I am not trying minimize it or lessen or be flippant. It's the truth. It's part of us, and its a part of us that will always make us feel guilty and ashamed rightly so, and Its a past that some BH can not see past and actually I believe that consequence is fair and acceptable, if they need to be done to be healthy its good. And we have to accept that.

At 6 months my BH was angry but kept it contained, he will not do IC and MC thinks is nuts. I need to be fixed not him. At this time, I have set that aside. He is needing to heal. He is an introvert, so does a lot of self talk. pretty logical thinking. Not use to the emotions.

So when they come they are explosive, crawl in the corner and make me want to hide and never be me again. Noone else in my life can or has made me feel worse about myself than he can,and even my own thoughts have been better. But that is the pain the intensity of the hurt I brought on him.

So I accept it, it has faded and it seems to go in cycles, so just remember to breathe ,until he actual walks out that door I believe and feels it may be the hurt talking.

Keep talking here, the BS and WS have helped me through days of down hill spiral and thru my BH pain.

As to getting a job. Wow difficult one. I fight this one too, I am a SAHM who does work from home, I a nail technician do artificial nails etc. USe to own a day spa before the kids allways felt and believed I HAD to support myself, to a harmful thought pattern, if I didn't I was worthless, more FOO issues. Now with having my affairs I realized that they were very selfish only me thoughts, even my children were in harms way and still are because of it. This struggle for making sure I was independent harmed them as well cause in a way, I was resentful for my husband working away and having a sick child that I couldn't work or own my spa, and Ialso couldn't feel worthy.

One of the things my BH and I talked about right after is this , and my realization (called a kick in the head and getting my ASS out of my HEad((ps I mean that way)that my family is my priority and I am actually good at it.

Now some times there is high and low risks, I think that's what they are called, that shows your remorse your ability to be vulnerable and wiling ness to do what needs to be done to help heal your BH. One of mine, is to NOT take an outside job at this time, I am not because I want to be all in. I wantto stay vulnerable and show my BH that I believe him when he tells me he wants to be here, even after he has been angry for days , I want to believe him when we have fought and I am unsure if he will be here in the next hour or if he will even come home from working away. He also does not want me to get a job.

Focus on something your building together, we worked on our acerage, we grew a garden for the first time together, and I mean together, we turned it over, we planted it, watered it, harvested and canned it all together. It was like watching life start.

I am sure you know your husband. Find something you can do together and start it . Yourself if you have too.

As for the dating etc, and passwords, Mine did the exactly the same, In fact had started to see if my AP XW who was WS herself wanted to get together and fix her itch as she so nicely emailed to my BH. SO I get those fears too. I gave my BH hallpasses. They have never been used. and the online account has been cancelled and he now shares his passwords.

We've been at this for 16months now. Is happy ,no, is it ok, getting there, is it a rollercoaster, everyhour some days and sometimes it balanced.

Breath, relax, breath again, THe heart is important , and so is hope , keep that going, at the same time is using logic. See the world from your BH eyes and heart. WHat would you want if it was the other way around
Good luck its still really early, just breath and read , go to IC focus on your why's and don't worry so much about tomorrow it will keep you in panic mode.

20WrongsVs1 posted 2/8/2014 16:08 PM

Even though you cheated, you still have a right to want to feel safe in the marriage. Right now you don't feel safe, because your husband recently asked for a separation, is placing personal ads, and saying the best you can hope for is an open marriage. Nobody would feel safe in a M with those parameters.

Now he's not sure and says he's tired of my shit all these years. All the bad has cancelled anything good.

That is really, really hard to hear. I know because BH said almost these exact words to me, not two weeks ago. R is a roller-coaster. The conventional wisdom on SI is that 6 months post-DDay is when the BS's anger can really kick in. It held true for us. But about a month later, R started clicking for us, and has generally been good. With peaks and valleys.

He said it is obvious that the job is because I'm afraid he'll leave.

Your fear is pretty justified, since he asked for a separation about 6 weeks ago, stopped MC, and is being secretive.

It takes two to R. If you two want to stay together, it sounds to me like the ingredients are still there, you love each other, you enjoy being together as a family. Learning to trust again, getting past the hurt, that is a very tough row for a BS to hoe. The conventional wisdom on SI says it takes 2-5 years to heal from infidelity. And that holds true, whether you R or D.

For both your sakes, I sincerely hope he doesn't actually have an RA (revenge affair), because adding more hurt to the situation doesn't make you even. I'm a big fan of the Menz thread (Betrayed Men in the I Can Relate forum) and those guys often say they had fleeting thoughts of having an RA after DDay. To prove to themselves that they're still desirable, still wanted. They don't do it, because they know there's *no justification* for having an A, including if your spouse did it first! But obviously your spouse being with another person is a huge blow to the ego, and some BSs do react by having an RA...or, at least testing the waters.

What do I do about the anger?

It's hard, but one way to diffuse his anger is to drop your defenses, and acknowledge his pain. "You're angry, and you should be, after what I did. I betrayed you and our marriage, you didn't deserve that, and I'm so sorry."

You can also express your feelings, so long as you are not blaming BH. For example, when he says, "At best we can have an open relationship, because I guarantee I'm having an affair at some point." You have every right to say, "When you say that, I feel afraid that you're going to leave me, and I feel sad because I don't want an open relationship. Even though I betrayed you and I was so horrible, I love you and I want our family to stay together. Is there any chance of that?"

IMO, you take the job. Stay in IC. Accept that BH has a right to feel angry, and that R is a roller-coaster. A lot of people end up in limbo for awhile, it's normal at 6 months out for your status to be "not divorcing." For now that may be all he can offer you.

hopefaithlove4 posted 2/8/2014 16:22 PM

Spotless--I get you on the YOU bit and that is where I struggle. MY LTA was so selfish and I vowed to BS and family they would come first. So, I struggle with how to justify a job that pulls me away from them more and pulls me away from a side biz that is very important to me and BS. I struggle with working on myself and making my family a priority because, it seems to me, they must come first as my priority. But then, isn't my healing a part of that, too??? (The fact that I even wrote the words "my healing" even sounds selfish to me.) It's all so confusing and difficult. Plus, we also have an apartment building we manage, so I am swamped just working 15 hours. At 40 hours, something is going to give.

If I am being authentic with myself, I'd say don't start the job and focus on myself and the family. If the A was out of the equation I'd pursue the side biz and continue doing what I'm doing. I just don't know. Practicality tells me I should do both--plan for the worse by taking this job and not taking the job and planning for the best. It is so messed up. I declined another job offer back in November. We had talked about it when things were going better and we both agreed that it wasn't the best for us. I don't regret that decision. But a month later he was telling me he was considering moving out. I think we still both agree that the November decision was right if we stay married.

I know his pride and ego are hurt. He won't let me forget the sexual acts and yells at me for those. He is a Type A, climb-the-corporate ladder, hard-charging guy. I know I will not put us through this hell again, but he doesn't. But those are weak words when I did it before and so blatantly risked and disrespected my family. And so the chance to change and be the person I want to be for myself and family might not be there. I should have been that person all along and right now he doesn't know if I'm worthy of it.

We read all the books at the beginning of DD. He says they haven't helped. I think if he'd go back and reference things he'd say differently, because at the time he said they helped a bit. The point is, he is just negative on everything right now. Nothing helps, I'm a horrible person, his life is ruined.

As for a RA, I can't control his actions. We've talked about that and I don't even feel I can tell him no on it, considering all I've done. He knows where I stand, that it won't help, but until you try those shoes on and go through it, you just don't know the mental mess and devastation of it. Plus, I think I could get through a RA better than he could just by what I understand of As. Wouldn't be easy, but I do have that capacity to forgive. The one thing that would hold me up is that he wouldn't take any responsibility for it. I have done everything he's asked from axing good friends, putting finances in his name, etc. Huge, sincere gestures meeting his demands that don't mean anything to him because he says that it still might not be enough and he may leave after an RA. Basically, he wants revenge/vengeance.

And, oddly enough, we are affectionate with each other, do spend more time together, have the same goals, and get along well. Sometimes we even talk about the future and he will use "we". There is just so much hurt that it's hard for him to see that another side can exist in this.

I love this guy and will be patient and continue to show him my love and commitment each day in the hope that some day he will recognize that the good outweighs the bad.

20WrongsVs1 posted 2/8/2014 16:36 PM

As for a RA, I can't control his actions. We've talked about that and I don't even feel I can tell him no on it, considering all I've done.

You can't control his actions, and you can't tell him "no." But if he has an affair that is 100% on him. You do not deserve that. Nothing justifies an affair, and you have every right to tell him that's a dealbreaker for you. If your infidelity was a dealbreaker for him, he should D you, and he knows it.

Nothing helps, I'm a horrible person, his life is ruined.

Coming from a BS, that is totally normal and expected. Especially 6 months out. Try to stop hearing the hurtful words, and instead hear only the "hurt" behind the words. Have compassion for him as he processes the hurt.