I have been thinking about WW's nine month A quite a bit.
She's quitting her job with OM in May and feeling pressure. Has been criticizing me a lot.
I discovered the A through a card she received and got the truth when I confronted OM -- her co-worker. She insisted they had just exchanged kisses. OM said they had sex more than 100 times, including in our home.
So, not having heard any bit of truth about the A directly from WW, I feel that I need a nugget of truth from her. I feel that having a nugget of truth would allow me to build on it. Right now, I feel that I have no base.
This morning in MC I asked WW to take a polygraph test. I had felt the same gut feeling that I felt during the nine-month A before. At that time I didn't know what I was feeling and attributed it to my own insecurities.
She flipped out. Accused me of living in the past, looking for reasons to feel pain and flat out said she won't take a polygraph test. She strongly denied having cheated before this A.
When I tried to explain the whole nugget of truth thing that I wrote above, she called me a "fucking idiot" repeatedly while the MC tried to calm her down.
Am I paranoid or is it natural that I'm now even more suspicious?
When I tried to explain the whole nugget of truth thing that I wrote above, she called me a "fucking idiot" repeatedly while the MC tried to calm her down. Am I paranoid or is it natural that I'm now even more suspicious?
forget paranoia and suspicion, and insist that she address you respectfully and not with contempt. Actually, the "fucking idiot" comment would be a dealbreaker for me.
You are proposing a technique for her to prove that she is telling you/told you the truth. That she is no longer hiding truth from you, no longer lying to you. It speaks volumes that she reacted as she did, which I agree in and of itself is enough to be a deal breaker or at least step back from her and the M.
How can you rebuild a M with a person who is hiding significant truths from you, who is unable to be open and honest? How can you restore emotional intimacy with hidden lies?
I would require an apology, a timeline and a follow-up polygraph before I would be willing to consider anymore thoughts of staying/fixing the M with her. Until I got the apology and timeline I would 180, work on me, and set goals for separation and D.
ETA: I would also ask WW why she even considers trying to R with such a "Fucking Idiot"?
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:05 AM, February 11th (Tuesday)]
The name calling really hurts. Like you wrote above, LiesHurt, I'm scared that she reacted so strongly because she is cornered and feeling caught in a lie.
I just want to throw a tantrum and beat my head against the wall. I'm not going to do that, of course. I'm at work :)
I'm not stupid. I know exactly why he has such reactions.
D-day 14 June 2013
I'm smart, good looking and gosh darn it, people like me!
I would at the very least know that the damage is contained to the one (long) affair.
I think that her refusal to take the test actually answers my question. She cheated before.
I don't know that for sure and now I don't know how not to think that.
Frankly, my first reaction - well, second, and if I documented the 1st one, I'd violate guidelines - is to out the A at work (in the hope of ending om's and her jobs quickly), throw W's property out of my dwelling place, grab my half of the M assets, and go for D as quickly as possible.
But I'm really curious about the therapist's response....
[This message edited by sisoon at 12:52 PM, February 11th (Tuesday)]
To me at least, the refusal suggested an earlier A and I think that went through the therapist's mind, too. Again, just my impressions.
WW then went on her tirade and the therapist kept asking her to calm down and said that what she was saying wasn't helping. The therapist said the name calling is hurtful and that she didn't want it in her office and that we shouldn't call each other names at home either (we don't do it).
It was close to the end of the session. We both went quiet. The therapist asked my WW what was going through her mind.
WW answered that she feels she learned a lot about herself over the last year and that she's glad she's not in that place anymore.
Then the therapist asked me what was going through my mind. I answered that I was stuck thinking that WW cheated before.
WW went ballistic again accusing me of living in the past, being a pessimist, not wanting to heal, not being able to move forward by choice, disengaging from the world, not understanding how the world works and a whole lot more that was hard to register.
Again, it took a while for the therapist to calm her down.
We have a week-long vacation pre-booked leaving this Sunday. The therapist asked how we think we're going to handle it.
I don't know...
Your wife's reaction is full of red flags (which I'm sure you can tell). Her outburst and refusal speaks volumes.
Honey, it is time to roll back the carpet.
People who have nothing to hide hide nothing. She's refusing the polygraph because it will reveal her ongoing deception, either in regards to a prior A or a continuation of the current A underground.
Also, the outbursts are extremely telling. Why is she "flipping out" and ranting and raving like an overgrown toddler having a tantrum? Because she wanted to derail all conversation about prior A's. When the therapist has to spend your session trying to calm your WW down it doesn't leave much time to discuss your legitimate concerns. Knowing that she can't rationally discuss/defend her staunch refusal for the poly, your WW chose to throw a tantrum to pass the time in your session instead.
Frankly, I don't think she gets it. My two cent:
- react calmly. Slowly and deliberately invoke the 180.
- secure as many assets as you can. protect yourself and prepare for D.
- Turn away from her. Don't be mean just tell her that you don't want to be with someone who behaves so irrationally when asked a legitimate question.
- If you are not done, tell her that. Tell her if she really gets help (SI, IC, reading books, etc) then you will consider continuing the M.
- Dig into you - without her. Remember back to who you were before you met her. If that's no good find some new things to do and get busy doing them.
Detach. Detach.
Take care...
We have a week-long vacation pre-booked leaving this Sunday.
I would not be able to enjoy a vacation with a person who referred to me as a fucking idiot and was willing to hide truth from me. I would prefer to be out the money and do something productive and away from her with the time than to be out the money and HAVE to spend time with her after that.
I would also remove the request/requirement that she quit her job. In my thinking, her quitting her job (months later) is not enough to make up for continued lying, name calling and disrespect. I would let her know that if she wants to change jobs on her own that is fine, but that you cannot remain with a person who lies to you and considers you a fucking idiot. A person who has no empathy for what she did to your M. A person who says she will not tell you about the past, that you should trust her that she is not that person anymore.
180, schedule some IC for you, explore your options and wait to see if she finds remorse and empathy. Signs that she really wants to fix herself, and then the M with you will be a complete timeline with willingness to do a polygraph to confirm, apologies for how she berated you, and scheduled IC for her to really understand what her issues are.
[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 1:45 PM, February 11th (Tuesday)]
Over this last year, has your WW agreed with or confirmed the 100x having sex with OM in your house, his house, etc, or is she still insisting just kisses?
Do you know what your WW has learned about herself in the last year? Do you know what place she was in a year ago and how does that compare to where she is now?
Has she ever read and discussed with you books like Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines?
As far as considering D and preparing for it, there's not much to lose/gain. We don't have children.
I care a lot about WW and I'm feeling like we're hitting a point where R is either going to take off or crash.
I regret booking that vacation and at the same time look at it as something that could keep us attempting R a little while longer, which is never a bad thing.
My fears about a previous A will continue. Even my therapist says WW has a lot of problems and is full of fear. He says I need to "take in" that she's quitting her job.
I just don't know how much longer I can keep going like this. There's not a lot of room for me to breathe before WW gets super needy/critical.
I pick her up for our MC appointments. I was four minutes late today and she turned that into a big deal. We were still early for the appointment in the end and we have never been late despite having the weekly appointment for a year. Yet, we walk in and WW tells the therapist that I'm always late.
Therapist says she's deflecting and this happens week in, week out.
My therapist asked me to read a book on borderline personalities. I did. WW is not nearly that bad, but does react to the same sort of things.
Respectfully, I'd suggest you aren't aren't really in R, except for the fact that she is currently not cheating.
I've been there.
During the 2.5+ years of separations/trying to get back together, I went through all this kind of crap. Pining a lot of hope on MC as a way to dislodge the truth. It didn't work and created a bunch of needless suffering and effort.
What did work is I finally got to the point where I was done. We were separated at the time and she came to me asking to get back together. I said no. I said I didn't believe she'd changed and I wasn't putting myself thru it again.
That's what broke the dam. I eventually relented and finally got all my questions answered, got a written timeline, and finally got closure to the whole mess. Only then did we really start to R.
You can't nice your way out of this. The gap between "we just kissed" and "sex 100x including in your home" is just far too wide.
[This message edited by IHeartSuffering at 4:07 PM, February 11th (Tuesday)]
