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Just realized today is February 12. D-day four years ago. I should be happy and writing to let the SI community know how successful we were in R, but Sadly there was a d-day last month, January 13. And now I have two d-days.

I actually wrote a really good positive reconciliation post in February 2012. I just reread it. Wow! It's some good advice for those reconciling - but it's hard for me to read now. We did reconcile, we were so happy and our marriage was great- so why did he succumb to another A? Ugh.

This time I asked for a D, he freaked out. He cried. Made promises. So I'm still here. I still love him, just not so sure I like him very much. We are working toward another R however this time I'm going into it with a reality that there are no assurances. I'm never going to fully trust him again. Sad. But this is still new and I'm taking it one day at a time. He is remorseful and going to IC this time and MC- he never sought counseling last time. The problem belongs to him, we both know that.

This morning I told him that betrayal is like defecating on the person you love, stabbing them and then spitting on them. I know- it's a bit dramatic- but hey that's the way I feel. His response was swift- "no no it wasn't like that at all. I never meant to hurt you, I never meant for you to find out". Really?

How stupid are the WS? Obviously blinded by their own selfishness and desires to see that even the first step of an A is like a death, an ending. For him to think I'd never know about it doesn't change the fact that he committed the offense. And how could he think I wouldn't find out? Stupid. The best thing for him to have done was to have told me he wanted this A. But of course he laughed at that. How can you have an A if you tell your spouse first? Duh..... But by revealing his desire there might not have been an A or there would have been an A coupled with a D.

Random thoughts.

Me:BS 52

Him:WS 52

M:27 yrs

2 adult kids

Op: both co workers

D-day #1 2/12/10

D-day#2 1/13/14

I will never go through this again. I've made that clear to my husband, and I really mean it. I can't imagine going through it all over again.

So sorry you are going through this again. My hubby knows I would walk if it happened again. Heck, I am not even sure I am staying this time yet. Be strong and best wishes to you!

(((The past is gone)))

You are living one of the worst nightmares a BS could have....a repeat WS.

The first time enough evidence is present to make a case for ignorance. A second time is a stand alone, selfish, blatantly destructive, active choice.

My wife's f AP dumped her.....she never once chose me or her family over him. Period. End of story.

Yes, since about a year ago she started making me a choice , our family a choice. But I do not have a firm sense that she has really grasped the risk she still has inside her.

You are not random in your thoughts and feelings, by the way. You Courageously feeling some pretty horrific feelings. You are not drinking, screwing around on him, or any other self destructive activity.

I wonder if a fWS is like a drunk that stopped drinking? They are better, but need to work on boundaries daily?

My wife is very firm in her tone to me that she has learned and will never chose adultery again. Thing is "never" is a flag word to me....it can exude a prideful overconfidence.

Pride in her independent nature and confidence that she was in complete control of herself up until I think she actually gave him head are large components to my wife's ability to chose adultery in the first place.

Those fickle, non-fact based feelings that she made choices with were very destructive in nature.

These have been a part of her since childhood.

Her words are important, but actions + time is what is required to prove real change is possible and is sustainable.

Would be interested to hear your husbands journey back to adultery.

I need only burn my hand on a cookie sheet once before I learn to use an oven mitt the next time. Where did he get derailed?

God be with you both. I will say a specific prayer for you guys now.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:05 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)]

(((The Past is Gone)))). I'm so, so sorry...that is heartbreaking to hear.

I can imagine how painful this second betrayal must be. I always thought that one A would be a deal breaker, yet here I am, working toward R. I've learned not to make blanket statements about what I would or wouldn't do in situation x any more, because the truth is, I'm never sure until I experience situation x.

I think your dedication to your WH and your M is admirable. It sounds like he is willing to do the work this time around, and I believe that can make a world of difference. I wish you both all the best, and I'm so sorry you find yourself facing the aftermath of a second D-Day.

[This message edited by SpotlessMind at 6:16 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)]

I'm so sorry.

He IS doing something different this time - counseling. If he found a good C, that bodes well for the future.

(((the past is gone))) so sorry you are suffering. I just wanted to chime in about how critical it is for your H to do counseling this time. My H tried to end his A several times, but kept going back. When I press for the reason, he always says it's because he never dealt with any of his problems, never dealt with why he was involved in the first place. Even after he ended things, it was 6 years before he finally got into IC - and although he avoided another A during that time, he was continuing to think the same stuff and in the same ways - he wasn't living authentically and our M was mediocre.

He is a different person now - and I'm convinced it's because he did the work and he didn't attempt to do it on his own.

I hope your H will continue to pursue help. PEACE

Even after he ended things, it was 6 years before he finally got into IC - and although he avoided another A during that time, he was continuing to think the same stuff and in the same ways - he wasn't living authentically and our M was mediocre.

Kyrie....the more you allow us to see about your trial the more it makes sense that you are the support you are to a lot of us.

How did you make it in a mediocre marriage for 6 years? How did you find the patience to sit back and watch your husband try to do something on his own that you must have felt was not possible?

I am in a mediocre marriage right now....am fine with that as we are seeings some growth....but to feel not substantially better 5 years from now breaks my heart.

I pray for courage regularly.....praying for it A LOT today.

Thank you for your contribution...it comforts me and I suspect it comforts the past is gone as well.

(((the past is gone)))

Peace.

Thanks for your responses.

Please understand that I'm still in a fog over this second A. I'm exhausted and numb. I've lost 10 pounds (but I'm back to eating now). I have a hard time focusing and have kind of retreated from life a bit. Trying to recoup and heal.

My H is remorseful. He's disgusted by his behavior and confused. He never agreed to IC before but he has gone this time. He claims that this women threw himself at him. She was young and gorgeous. Problem is he has a job that lends itself to this type of thing. It happens all the time.

His brain was fried by infatuation. He knew he made the first move and it was wrong but he kept going.

Please understand that you can't really know what you're gonna do until it happens to you. I told everyone and him that a second A was my boiling point. I guess it wasn't. So please don't judge me. I'm working on this. It's one day at a time.

My wife is very firm in her tone to me that she has learned and will never chose adultery again.

One of your posts said:

"""Thing is "never" is a flag word to me....it can exude a prideful overconfidence"""

He said "Never again" also! I believed him. Sadly I'm afraid us BS cannot really trust the word never.

[This message edited by the past is gone at 6:12 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)]

(((The past is gone))) <---yes, hugs again, bc I think you could use them.

No judging here. My DDay taught me a lot about making assumptions, especially in situations where I lack the experience to go on. I know how hurtful it is when well-meaning friends say "I don't know how you do it--I can't imagine"--and I've resolved to try my best not to express that sentiment to others.

Again, no judging here, not from me.. Only support. We are all unique, have unique situations, and make the choices we think are best.

((Past)) I'm so so sorry.

It's what we all fear and then when it comes to fruition we are most angry at..... Ourself.

No judgment here. I've been through two Ddays as well but it doesn't matter. You know him best.... Not us

YOU have done the work! YOU will be fine , even though your heart is breaking now.

I wonder if time apart would be beneficial to both of you ?

Hugs!!!!! You are a brave strong woman!

Thanks for your words. Sadly people really do judge you when these things happen. I just want people to know that there are no hard and fast rules as to how to handle infidelity. I do honestly believe I will heal and he will get help. No one can know what tomorrow brings. I'm just doing what feels right for me- at this time.

And along those lines- I feel very isolated because some of my relatives will not speak to me as they disagree with my decision to stay. Really? I'm a grown women with adult children and a professional with a lot of authority- and they think they know what is best for me. Well I can only deal with one dysfunction at a time. So right now it's my marriage.

Truly the second d-day is a BS' s worst nightmare. But I'll carry on..

(((hugs))) You'll get no judgment from me, just support. Be sure to take good care of yourself physically, ok?

It is the most horrible pain in the world. No I take that back - losing a child is worse. But it's a close second.

As per my name I've been cheated on more than once and by more than one man. I did not date for at least a decade before I met my current DH. I honestly thought I would be single the rest of my life.

I've told my current DH my past pain, etc. And I've told him up front that if he cheated the issue would not be that his genitals bumped with someone else's - it would be that he made a conscious decision to do something that would cause me unbearable pain.

He knows what that would to do me. And quite frankly he just isn't of the wandering eye type - but it can happen to anyone. If my husband cheated on me with what I've been through in the past - (hideous details that I won't go into here) it would be the equivalent if he took a baseball bat and beat the shit out of me.

I just want people to know that there are no hard and fast rules as to how to handle infidelity

A true statement.

....and my logical analytical mind has burned many calories trying to find the "hard and fast rules"....done in vane.

The bible speaks directly to adultery....but stops short too. Adultery is the only sin where D is an OPTION....not a given, an option. And I tried and tried.....to the point of pleading....to find 100 % validation for D. I just wanted the pain to stop.

I now think I was child-like in many ways....trying to find "hard and fast rules" so that I may "move swiftly and completely" away from the pain. I now realize pain is to be felt and dealt with. A D will not remove the pain.....it could allow me to BURY the pain (seen my parents do this for 30 years now)....but pain would not go away with D.

Closest "hard and fast rule" for blakesteele is that my wife's choice to commit adultery killed our original M. Ironically, I fought and fought that realization.....enter MY FOO issues.

Your mentioning you are in a fog right now....I am sorry to read this. It took me back to my early days.....how utterly bewildered I was as I witnessed my wife doing such unthinkable acts that my eyes and mind were fighting with the info streaming in.........:

God be with you both.

God be with us all.

Like most people here, I have said I would never go through this again...that contact with her or another AP would mean I would walk away and never set eyes on him again...ever. But, if anyone had asked me 5 years ago what would you do if your H cheated on you and then confessed to an A with the same woman 20 years before, I would have said duh...I would leave him and yet here I am. So... no one can make this decision for you. I know the BS fog is pretty overwhelming and from what you are saying the second time around is not any clearer, so you SHOULD be taking one day at a time. Whether you make a decision next week, or next year do what is BEST for you!

Since my WH never really did any work to figure out why he was inclined to do what he did, I have found myself asking myself and him what has changed that could insure me that he won't do this again? I always have this little space that is preparing me for another dday.

That saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results comes to mind. Your H is in IC...in MC...that may make it different this time. I also can't help but to think...once his A was over, aside from dealing with the pain and guilt he felt for hurting me and the OW, he was pretty much unscathed...no one...family, friends, his kids...knows about any of it. I was the one who made most of the changes and I stayed.

I seriously do think that a 2nd dday would have to mean a separation and you should consider one if it is possible. Even if I decided to try a second R, I think it would be the only way for me to clear my head enough to look objectively at things and make a proper decision. You need to focus on you and clear your head. He needs to deal with is own stuff.

Are you going to IC? You don't need to feel isolated.

I'm a grown women with adult children and a professional with a lot of authority

that...and you WILL figure this out.

I think I judge myself the worst. I question my thoughts and feelings all of the time. Wonder to myself why I stay? Our minds can be a very dark place for many of us. I always was one to say I would leave if this happened to me. Im still here. Not so sure if I want to be but Im only 5 months into this game. I hate my life right now. Im not happy, Im devastated. There are some days I want to crawl out of my own skin. Im truly sorry this has happened to you and your spouse. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find happiness together.

I don't think there is a person here who can judge you after what we have all experienced; I think when people make statements of how they told their spouse that a second time is a deal breaker, they are speaking from a place of fear and a place that will not allow themselves to entertain the idea of a second time because it is just too painful. I am so sorry that you had this second blow. It has to be extremely devastating. You have said that he was not willing to go to counseling prior to this, and I think that this in a strange way brings a little hope to the situation because it is not a second DDay after he has worked through all of the layers of his "why." This is a second DDay from a man who desperately wanted to live a better life, but did not gain the tools to do it so at his most stressful, weakest moments reverted back to what was most familiar. I am certainly not making excuses for him, and I don't know the whole story for sure, but I do think that until he is able to get the insight into his behaviors that comes from the hard work done with a skillful Individual counselor, he did not have the ability to be truly authentic with himself, much less within your marriage. Clearly he is motivated now to face what may have felt impossibly scary to do in the past, and if it is not too late from your standpoint, maybe true healing and a healthy marriage will finally be attainable.

In the meantime, I am not sure if you shared this already, but do you have our own IC? I hope you have sought out the support of the friends and healthy activities that were able to help your healing from the first DDay. So sorry that you have to go through this again; my heart is breaking for you. Being in the middle of the first DDay myself, I feel so sad that you have to go through this process again. We are all here for you.

15 years out from D,14 from a happy,successful R and I still feel I was stabbed, stabbed (the image I use).My life is good and I still love her but I still see her, deep down wielding the blade.

Thanks again for your comments. They are so helpful. It helps because I am not talking about this situation withy many people so getting "hugs" and encouragement from SI gives me strength.

The second betrayal is weird. I feel like I'm healing quicker. The first A lasted a year, the second was only two months. I figured it out quickly as he started behaving exactly like he did during the first A. (So know that you'll be able to catch them much easier if they betray you again). Sad.

I am in IC. My therapist seems to want me to D. I'm outraged by this. She doesn't think I could ever trust him again. I'm not giving up on what was a good M- he needs counseling and I need time. Not sure if I'll stay with my therapist- might have to D her (ha).