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Newest Member: W2MNL (46024)

User Topic: Earning the BS back
wert
♂ 34478
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have put a lot of thought into this one. Everyone is different, but for me the central reason I am still in my M, is because my W acted like she wanted me back. She wanted to earn my love again.

I have read so many stories about limbo and multiple D-days, yada, yada. They all suck. But at R's core, if the WS does not beg at some point, I just don't think its worth while.

Don't get me wrong, this is not how R should be established long term. I am just saying that a turning point in the shit storm needs to be some sort of groveling on the part of the WS. A serious re-adjustment in the power dynamic. BS on top and WS on bottom, until BS gives the green light.

It may just be what I needed, but I have a suspicion that a lot of people end up in limbo because they don't fully detach from their WS and put them in their place for a while. Put them in the proper corner of their life. Not central anymore. I am not talking egg shells. I am talking thin ice with the BS poking the water with a stick. Dance for me. Dance.

I am confident that if my W didn't dance for a while, that I would have left her.

Just waxing after reading a bunch of hard posts...boulder of salt here on shoulder please...but something to think about if you are either just starting out or in limbo.

take care....



Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jan 2012
marionwendy
♀ 41303
Member # 41303
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I TOTALLY AGREE! When I first found out in August, this is the attitude I took, and he was dancing for a few months. Its just been recently that I have brought him out of the corner so to speak.


BS-49
WS-50
Married-18
Together-21
Children-2

Life is not measured by the breaths we take
but by the moments that take our breath away.


Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: canada
Jovie
♀ 41956
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I partially agree with you. I definitely think it made the decision to R much easier because I begged for BS and knew from the start I wanted him to take me back. But this sort of rubs me the wrong way -

Put them in the proper corner of their life. Not central anymore. I am not talking egg shells. I am talking thin ice with the BS poking the water with a stick. Dance for me. Dance.

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

I haven't read about the 180, but isn't that sort of the same concept?


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 217 | Registered: Jan 2014
Rebreather
♀ 30817
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

Well, you aren't very far into this.

I poked that thin ice. A lot. He failed me once, was he going to fail me again?

I totally agree with you Wert. Down to the part where after the second dday I pointed to the ground and said, "beg." And he did, without hesitation. Did it really mean anything? I don't know. But it gave him another day to keep fighting.

A footdragging wayward is not a good candidate for recovery. A BS that allows it is on a bad path.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6693 | Registered: Jan 2011
JanaGreen
♀ 29341
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not completely sold on the begging, but I DEFINITELY agree that the BS needs to detach and realize that s/he can be completely, totally fine and even GREAT without the WS around. As long as the BS is willing to stay despite the bad behavior, even if the BS is desperately unhappy/complaining, I think the WS can somehow justify absolute crap behavior in his/her head. I completely believe that you absolutely have to be willing to walk in order for R to work.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 5-year-old daughter. Baby Green 2.0 expected June 2015!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 6968 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
NikkiD
♀ 38173
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm with ya Wert.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
wert
♂ 34478
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But this sort of rubs me the wrong way -

Me too, but so did the A.

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

For me anyway, ideal got tossed out the window when my W started stuffing another man's cock in her mouth.

This is not a long term prescription for a healthy relationship. It's a path back to one after one partner has fallen down so far in there responsibilities of being a person of value, that their very value is called into question. I know this is not forgiving and all that, but I don't think the weeks or even months following d-day is a time to even consider forgiveness. It's a time to figure out if the person you are with is worth a lick of salt at all.

take care...



Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jan 2012
Lostinthismess
♀ 39210
Member # 39210
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is not a long term prescription for a healthy relationship. It's a path back to one after one partner has fallen down so far in there responsibilities of being a person of value, that their very value is called into question. I know this is not forgiving and all that, but I don't think the weeks or even months following d-day is a time to even consider forgiveness. It's a time to figure out if the person you are with is worth a lick of salt at all.

I agree 100%. One of the reasons I also agree the ws needs to take the anger without crying abuse and it not being fair. Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.


'You just keep living, until you are alive again'
'I don't want perfect, I want honest'

Posts: 339 | Registered: May 2013
cantaccept
♀ 37451
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wert, I agree to an extent. I never personally needed groveling or begging but I did need proof through action that he chose to be with me.

I need him to prove that I was worth the effort of everything that I asked for.

Now, after dday #2, he is still blaming me for his actions.

You need to have those standards that are important to you. It really becomes all about what you need from your wayward. If they fight or resist, it is not a good sign.

It is crazy but even now he is trying the exact same tactics on me again. Does not work this time. I learned from the first time. It would be all up to him to learn, to be proactive, to change.

So, I have filed and now it is just a matter of time...


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced!


Posts: 1577 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
NikkiD
♀ 38173
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree 100%. One of the reasons I also agree the ws needs to take the anger without crying abuse and it not being fair. Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.

Absolutely. Until I see this..Im only married on paper...doesnt mean I will act single. I'm merely indifferent to the things a wife would do for a spouse at the moment. I care....but i wont be doing a thing about it.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 3:10 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
lordhasaplan?
♂ 30079
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.

AMEN! with ACTIONS not words.


For me anyway, ideal got tossed out the window when my W started stuffing another man's cock in her mouth.
Yep.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Nov 2010
DixieD
♀ 33457
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got actual crying and begging and I didn't like it. It still seemed self-serving to me. The whole -- I screwed up sooooo bad and I want you back....boo hoo....woe is me. ME. ME. ME.

I was so far past the 'all about him' stage of life, even the begging pissed me off.

But I know what you mean. My husband worked his ass off with actions once he realized I was done. I didn't beg him to stay, or tell him why we should be together. I told him to go and have a happy life with AP and he cried NOOOOO. Now granted my husband ended his affair and confessed on his own, but the affair itself was just a (small) part of what the problems were. He had to prove a lot more than not being interested in AP.

I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. I'm the only GF my husband had who didn't pursue him. The others and AP made it clear they were very interested in him and went after him. I didn't do that. Not when we started dating and not after dday.

He had to convince me to give him a shot and that he was worth the risk. He had to earn it, twice now. This is the last chance he gets to prove to me that I'm (and us and himself are) worth it to him. He knows that and so far it appears to be very important to him.

[This message edited by DixieD at 1:45 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
catlover50
♀ 37154
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, it was proving not only his remorse and his willingness to do "anything" to win me back, but that he would truly change and become the husband I always deserved. He had spent the previous 28 years of our relationship giving the minimum and ignoring my requests; no more! If I was going to go through this shit it was going to be because I had a vastly improved husband at the other end. So yeah, he jumped through hoops, but it nows seems to be second nature for him.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1845 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
karmahappens
♀ 35846
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A footdragging wayward is not a good candidate for recovery. A BS that allows it is on a bad path.

Amen

I don't know if it's a cycle or my imagination, but I feel as though there are many BS's accepting the waywards Rebreather mentioned.

Once I realized he was having the affair I was a bat-shit-crazy, bitch-boots wearing, hefty bag stuffing, pissed off woman.

If you wanted to be with me you had better prove it, fix it and make it worth it to me.

I think the total head spin makes a wayward know you won't accept the bullshit any longer.

If you want an A or your AP have at it, but you won't drag me through the mud with you.



“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3872 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
AFrayedKnot
♂ 36622
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Up until recently I would have agreed 110%. I made my fWS Dance and Dance and Dance. Man the hoops she jumped through all in the name of proving to me she was willing. And more importantly proving to myself that I wasn't an idiot for offering R.

The side effect of all that dancing though was an unrealistic bar being set. I know you said it is not long term. But watching that effort decrease over time has caused me to stop trusting the process. Where did the willingness go? Where did the Dancing go?

When i look at the Dancing realistically, none of those dance moves were actions toward my fWS healing herself. And that is the ultimate goal right? I am going to generalize and say that repeating the behavior with another A is all of our biggest fears.

The work that goes into healing is much more subtle and may not even be observable. But Iam basing the progress of our R on these grand blatant gestures.

I know my fWS was willing to do crazy blatant acts iin order to cake eat before why not again.


BS 40
fWS 37 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2691 | Registered: Aug 2012
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wert - from both your posts on this thread I sense a bubbling anger. Am I the only one seeing this?

at any rate, yep, agreed,

a lot of people end up in limbo because they don't fully detach from their WS and put them in their place for a while. Put them in the proper corner of their life.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5750 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
karmahappens
♀ 35846
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3872 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Lostinthismess
♀ 39210
Member # 39210
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

I like this. Instead of a solo piece it's a couple's dance if he stops 'dancing' I'm ok living alone. I don't expect him to kiss my ass forever, but if the effort stops that's a deal breaker for me. At 10 months out it looks a lot different than 2 months out, I'm sure 2 years has a different beat also.

[This message edited by Lostinthismess at 2:29 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


'You just keep living, until you are alive again'
'I don't want perfect, I want honest'

Posts: 339 | Registered: May 2013
wert
♂ 34478
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the responses...


I got actual crying and begging and I didn't like it. It still seemed self-serving to me. The whole -- I screwed up sooooo bad and I want you back....boo hoo....woe is me. ME. ME. ME.

Agreed that does sounds like self involved pity. I guess what I am really driving at is distancing yourself from your spouse, holding them at an emotional distance and seeing how they react toward you. It's an unfair test and dangerous, but I think it says a lot about who they are, what they realize about there actions and how they want to move forward.

When i look at the Dancing realistically, none of those dance moves were actions toward my fWS healing herself.

Spot on. I am not talking about healing here. That comes later. I am talking about a blunt redistribution of power in the relationship. I don't need you any more, I am not taking the first step here because you are not worth it...you take that step. Show me. Just as critical, after a while we as BS must walk toward them.

wert - from both your posts on this thread I sense a bubbling anger. Am I the only one seeing this?

Nice observation. I still have anger. I work through it every day. It won't leave for a while. For now it keeps me warm. I have let go of a lot of it....believe me...I was really angry. I have learned a lot about myself and anger through all this...I am not afraid of it anymore and I don't think other should be. There is a lot of difference between anger and violence. I am very familiar with my lines...Thanks for calling that out.

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

One of the interesting things about metaphors is there openness to interpretation :) This is a more a 'feel' thing for everyone I think. Dance and beg can mean a lot of different things...My W never begged literally. I made just about all family decisions for a while. She was contrite. But the power had changed and stay changed for a while. Equality was gone for a while. She never even asked for it back. She just start acting in a way that deserved it. IC, talking to me about what she was learning, going on AD, etc....

take care...



Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jan 2012
wert
♂ 34478
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't expect him to kiss my ass forever, but if the effort stops that's a deal breaker for me.

Yep.



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