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Earning the BS back

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wert posted 2/19/2014 10:44 AM

I have put a lot of thought into this one. Everyone is different, but for me the central reason I am still in my M, is because my W acted like she wanted me back. She wanted to earn my love again.

I have read so many stories about limbo and multiple D-days, yada, yada. They all suck. But at R's core, if the WS does not beg at some point, I just don't think its worth while.

Don't get me wrong, this is not how R should be established long term. I am just saying that a turning point in the shit storm needs to be some sort of groveling on the part of the WS. A serious re-adjustment in the power dynamic. BS on top and WS on bottom, until BS gives the green light.

It may just be what I needed, but I have a suspicion that a lot of people end up in limbo because they don't fully detach from their WS and put them in their place for a while. Put them in the proper corner of their life. Not central anymore. I am not talking egg shells. I am talking thin ice with the BS poking the water with a stick. Dance for me. Dance.

I am confident that if my W didn't dance for a while, that I would have left her.

Just waxing after reading a bunch of hard posts...boulder of salt here on shoulder please...but something to think about if you are either just starting out or in limbo.

take care....

marionwendy posted 2/19/2014 11:13 AM

I TOTALLY AGREE! When I first found out in August, this is the attitude I took, and he was dancing for a few months. Its just been recently that I have brought him out of the corner so to speak.

Jovie posted 2/19/2014 11:25 AM

I partially agree with you. I definitely think it made the decision to R much easier because I begged for BS and knew from the start I wanted him to take me back. But this sort of rubs me the wrong way -

Put them in the proper corner of their life. Not central anymore. I am not talking egg shells. I am talking thin ice with the BS poking the water with a stick. Dance for me. Dance.

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

I haven't read about the 180, but isn't that sort of the same concept?

Rebreather posted 2/19/2014 11:44 AM

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

Well, you aren't very far into this.

I poked that thin ice. A lot. He failed me once, was he going to fail me again?

I totally agree with you Wert. Down to the part where after the second dday I pointed to the ground and said, "beg." And he did, without hesitation. Did it really mean anything? I don't know. But it gave him another day to keep fighting.

A footdragging wayward is not a good candidate for recovery. A BS that allows it is on a bad path.

JanaGreen posted 2/19/2014 11:47 AM

I'm not completely sold on the begging, but I DEFINITELY agree that the BS needs to detach and realize that s/he can be completely, totally fine and even GREAT without the WS around. As long as the BS is willing to stay despite the bad behavior, even if the BS is desperately unhappy/complaining, I think the WS can somehow justify absolute crap behavior in his/her head. I completely believe that you absolutely have to be willing to walk in order for R to work.

NikkiD posted 2/19/2014 11:53 AM

I'm with ya Wert.

wert posted 2/19/2014 12:09 PM

But this sort of rubs me the wrong way -

Me too, but so did the A.

Ideally you wouldn't even need to go that far and if it takes too much of that, I'd question the validity of it all anyway.

For me anyway, ideal got tossed out the window when my W started stuffing another man's cock in her mouth.

This is not a long term prescription for a healthy relationship. It's a path back to one after one partner has fallen down so far in there responsibilities of being a person of value, that their very value is called into question. I know this is not forgiving and all that, but I don't think the weeks or even months following d-day is a time to even consider forgiveness. It's a time to figure out if the person you are with is worth a lick of salt at all.

take care...

Lostinthismess posted 2/19/2014 12:15 PM

This is not a long term prescription for a healthy relationship. It's a path back to one after one partner has fallen down so far in there responsibilities of being a person of value, that their very value is called into question. I know this is not forgiving and all that, but I don't think the weeks or even months following d-day is a time to even consider forgiveness. It's a time to figure out if the person you are with is worth a lick of salt at all.

I agree 100%. One of the reasons I also agree the ws needs to take the anger without crying abuse and it not being fair. Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.

cantaccept posted 2/19/2014 13:03 PM

Wert, I agree to an extent. I never personally needed groveling or begging but I did need proof through action that he chose to be with me.

I need him to prove that I was worth the effort of everything that I asked for.

Now, after dday #2, he is still blaming me for his actions.

You need to have those standards that are important to you. It really becomes all about what you need from your wayward. If they fight or resist, it is not a good sign.

It is crazy but even now he is trying the exact same tactics on me again. Does not work this time. I learned from the first time. It would be all up to him to learn, to be proactive, to change.

So, I have filed and now it is just a matter of time...

NikkiD posted 2/19/2014 13:06 PM

I agree 100%. One of the reasons I also agree the ws needs to take the anger without crying abuse and it not being fair. Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.

Absolutely. Until I see this..Im only married on paper...doesnt mean I will act single. I'm merely indifferent to the things a wife would do for a spouse at the moment. I care....but i wont be doing a thing about it.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 3:10 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]

lordhasaplan? posted 2/19/2014 13:13 PM

Prove you're all in. Prove nothing will make you quit. Then we can talk.

AMEN! with ACTIONS not words.


For me anyway, ideal got tossed out the window when my W started stuffing another man's cock in her mouth.
Yep.

DixieD posted 2/19/2014 13:42 PM

I got actual crying and begging and I didn't like it. It still seemed self-serving to me. The whole -- I screwed up sooooo bad and I want you back....boo hoo....woe is me. ME. ME. ME.

I was so far past the 'all about him' stage of life, even the begging pissed me off.

But I know what you mean. My husband worked his ass off with actions once he realized I was done. I didn't beg him to stay, or tell him why we should be together. I told him to go and have a happy life with AP and he cried NOOOOO. Now granted my husband ended his affair and confessed on his own, but the affair itself was just a (small) part of what the problems were. He had to prove a lot more than not being interested in AP.

I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. I'm the only GF my husband had who didn't pursue him. The others and AP made it clear they were very interested in him and went after him. I didn't do that. Not when we started dating and not after dday.

He had to convince me to give him a shot and that he was worth the risk. He had to earn it, twice now. This is the last chance he gets to prove to me that I'm (and us and himself are) worth it to him. He knows that and so far it appears to be very important to him.

[This message edited by DixieD at 1:45 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]

catlover50 posted 2/19/2014 13:50 PM

For me, it was proving not only his remorse and his willingness to do "anything" to win me back, but that he would truly change and become the husband I always deserved. He had spent the previous 28 years of our relationship giving the minimum and ignoring my requests; no more! If I was going to go through this shit it was going to be because I had a vastly improved husband at the other end. So yeah, he jumped through hoops, but it nows seems to be second nature for him.

karmahappens posted 2/19/2014 13:52 PM

A footdragging wayward is not a good candidate for recovery. A BS that allows it is on a bad path.

Amen

I don't know if it's a cycle or my imagination, but I feel as though there are many BS's accepting the waywards Rebreather mentioned.

Once I realized he was having the affair I was a bat-shit-crazy, bitch-boots wearing, hefty bag stuffing, pissed off woman.

If you wanted to be with me you had better prove it, fix it and make it worth it to me.

I think the total head spin makes a wayward know you won't accept the bullshit any longer.

If you want an A or your AP have at it, but you won't drag me through the mud with you.


AFrayedKnot posted 2/19/2014 14:02 PM

Up until recently I would have agreed 110%. I made my fWS Dance and Dance and Dance. Man the hoops she jumped through all in the name of proving to me she was willing. And more importantly proving to myself that I wasn't an idiot for offering R.

The side effect of all that dancing though was an unrealistic bar being set. I know you said it is not long term. But watching that effort decrease over time has caused me to stop trusting the process. Where did the willingness go? Where did the Dancing go?

When i look at the Dancing realistically, none of those dance moves were actions toward my fWS healing herself. And that is the ultimate goal right? I am going to generalize and say that repeating the behavior with another A is all of our biggest fears.

The work that goes into healing is much more subtle and may not even be observable. But Iam basing the progress of our R on these grand blatant gestures.

I know my fWS was willing to do crazy blatant acts iin order to cake eat before why not again.

rachelc posted 2/19/2014 14:03 PM

wert - from both your posts on this thread I sense a bubbling anger. Am I the only one seeing this?

at any rate, yep, agreed,

a lot of people end up in limbo because they don't fully detach from their WS and put them in their place for a while. Put them in the proper corner of their life.

karmahappens posted 2/19/2014 14:14 PM

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

Lostinthismess posted 2/19/2014 14:29 PM

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

I like this. Instead of a solo piece it's a couple's dance if he stops 'dancing' I'm ok living alone. I don't expect him to kiss my ass forever, but if the effort stops that's a deal breaker for me. At 10 months out it looks a lot different than 2 months out, I'm sure 2 years has a different beat also.

[This message edited by Lostinthismess at 2:29 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]

wert posted 2/19/2014 14:46 PM

Thanks for all the responses...


I got actual crying and begging and I didn't like it. It still seemed self-serving to me. The whole -- I screwed up sooooo bad and I want you back....boo hoo....woe is me. ME. ME. ME.

Agreed that does sounds like self involved pity. I guess what I am really driving at is distancing yourself from your spouse, holding them at an emotional distance and seeing how they react toward you. It's an unfair test and dangerous, but I think it says a lot about who they are, what they realize about there actions and how they want to move forward.

When i look at the Dancing realistically, none of those dance moves were actions toward my fWS healing herself.

Spot on. I am not talking about healing here. That comes later. I am talking about a blunt redistribution of power in the relationship. I don't need you any more, I am not taking the first step here because you are not worth it...you take that step. Show me. Just as critical, after a while we as BS must walk toward them.

wert - from both your posts on this thread I sense a bubbling anger. Am I the only one seeing this?

Nice observation. I still have anger. I work through it every day. It won't leave for a while. For now it keeps me warm. I have let go of a lot of it....believe me...I was really angry. I have learned a lot about myself and anger through all this...I am not afraid of it anymore and I don't think other should be. There is a lot of difference between anger and violence. I am very familiar with my lines...Thanks for calling that out.

I don't think my husband ever stopped dancing. Not because he had to but once the positives started to show we were both willing to dance, if that makes sense?

One of the interesting things about metaphors is there openness to interpretation :) This is a more a 'feel' thing for everyone I think. Dance and beg can mean a lot of different things...My W never begged literally. I made just about all family decisions for a while. She was contrite. But the power had changed and stay changed for a while. Equality was gone for a while. She never even asked for it back. She just start acting in a way that deserved it. IC, talking to me about what she was learning, going on AD, etc....

take care...

wert posted 2/19/2014 14:48 PM

I don't expect him to kiss my ass forever, but if the effort stops that's a deal breaker for me.

Yep.

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