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Newest Member: sadstrawberry (46003)

User Topic: Back to Square 1
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

QS melted down last night in a really bad way. I've sensed something is wrong for a few weeks but he insisted he was fine. Well. He wasn't. I feel like I have emotional whiplash. We're moving along, living life, then BAM! Juuuuust kidding.

I know two things:

We are not healed by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm poison in his blood.

I've destroyed a human being and I can't put all the pieces back together. For some people, redemption means nothing because it still doesn't fix, replace, or change the past. It doesn't matter if a person changes for the better, because if they had done XYZ to begin with, they wouldn't be in this position.

He did acknowledge that he doesn't communicate with me. He did say that he doesn't tell me what's really in his heart. But it doesn't matter. I still should have known better. I still should know what to do now.

I've tried so hard guys. I want to fix him so badly. I would die to fix him, to help him, to heal him. But it's too little, too late. I've done too much damage.

Last night gave me a very clear look at what it looks and feels like to have lost someone.

I'm trying very hard not to doubt myself, but it's difficult. When I've changed so much, when I've done so much, and he is still finding fault with all those changes, it's hard not to be discouraged. I feel a part of me has died inside. All I can do is keep working till he says he's done.

I'm not looking for hugs or sympathy. Just stating facts. Waywards, we messed up in a really bad way. And the new you may/may not be much of a consolation prize for your spouse. That's why everyone stresses, "Make the changes for you. Because they could be done tomorrow or three years from now.". Become the best person you can be, with or without anyone around you. Because at the end of the day, no matter who comes and goes in your life, you are a permanent fixture in your own life. You need to be ok with the person you are. You need to be confident in the person you are.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 9:10 AM, February 24th, 2014 (Monday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6527 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
MovingUpward
♂ 14866
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie,

I feel that you've reached the point of doing all that you can until QS takes some steps. We can't go around expect to be mind readers or expecting others to be mind readers. I think QS needs get some of this stuff out there and if he can't do it with you right now then point him to some of the BH's here. I'd be happy to talk with him if he wants.

Don't give up right now. I see something in you two that makes me feel that your M can survive and flourish.


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 53295 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know Moo. It's like he wants to talk, but something stops him.

Just one small example:
Last night, "The reason I worked so much last year was because I had a plan."

Ok, well I was all over the place last year trying to figure out why he was working so much. I would ask him, try to talk to him, and I got exactly nothing but resistance and anger from him. I was lost. Confused. Felt his work was his escape. The kids were hurt and angry and I'm trying to keep all the pieces together at home.

If you had a plan, don't you think you could have filled me in on that little fact instead of making me guess? Oh and news flash, I guessed wrong. So I shot myself in the foot.

And even after he announced last night that he had a plan last year, that is all.he.said. Wouldn't go into it. Wouldn't elaborate. The conversation was over. Guess I was supposed to read his mind again and know what it was.

I'm asking him questions, trying to talk, trying to engage. Backfires. If he talks, he gives me what he thinks I want to hear. Or gives me half an answer. Or doesn't say anything at all.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 9:22 AM, February 24th, 2014 (Monday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6527 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
solus sto
♀ 30989
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that this is NOT "back to square one," but rather a necessary step back--paving the way for progress?


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9135 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know. I don't know what to think anymore. I'm tired of guessing or trying to figure it out.

Don't anyone get all wigged out and yell, but I really don't feel that all was forgiven and everything was hunky dory from day 1 like he said. I think he pushed it down and now its coming back up. His moods are so bipolar. Last night he hated me and I ruined his whole life, today he loves me and wants us to be the happiest couple in the world. If this is the BS rollercoaster of emotions, its 2 1/2 years late.

If that's what it is, so be it. I'm not going to guess and dissect. I'm tired of doing that and coming up blank. All I can do at this point is take it one day at a time. Don't know what else to do.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6527 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Ascendant
♂ 38303
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It does kind of sound like maybe he was on pain delay. I mean, it's not 2-5 years for no reason, right? Maybe it just took him a while to feel safe enough to express his anger in total...as in, maybe before this point he thought he'd scare you off if he really let it rip, so to speak? Just a guess.
I think QS needs get some of this stuff out there and if he can't do it with you right now then point him to some of the BH's here
Yeah, I agree with Moo here. I actually PM'ed QS when he first joined (I believe) and pointed him to the BM thread.

I wonder if since Aubrie is so active 'round these parts, if QS is a little worried that SI is not a 'safe' place to vent, in terms of potentially getting out some very angry and hurtful things that he doesn't want to spit her way?

This is just a thought, but I've seen other posters do it when their spouses came on-board: what if you agreed to take a sabbatical from SI for a little bit (say, a few months), so that QS could ease in and get comfortable without fear of you reading his posts? I'm not saying you absolutely should, just sort of brainstorming from the BH perspective.


Catlover's law: The second strongest impulse in human nature, after the maternal/paternal instinct, is the ability to rationalize something that we think is in our best interest.

Posts: 2302 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Sal1995
♂ 39099
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry you are going through this, Aubrie. One thing that is obvious from your posts is that your BH has what seems like a crippling inability or unwillingness to communicate. That would be a problem even without the issues your behavior caused.

And the new you may/may not be much of a consolation prize for your spouse.

There's something to that. And here's the real mindworm for a BS - the new you - if we can trust that she really exists - is the you we thought we had all along. To discover that the real you (at least for a certain time period) was someone that we didn't really know and would never have knowingly married creates so many issues it's hard to put in words. It creates insecurity, pain, and cognitive dissonance. Some BS' end up with full blown PTSD.

It's a toxic stew that BS' deal with. Some simply aren't equipped to deal with it. Bad communication skills make it exponentially harder. I hope that isn't the sitch in your case, but it sounds like you accept that possibility that it may be.

We can't change the past. If you're doing the very best that you can to heal, then no one can ask more of you TODAY. Until he opens up and deals with these issues head on, you're fighting an uphill battle. I'll keep you and QS in my prayers.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1495 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Ascendant
♂ 38303
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and to kind of piggyback on what Sal posted, this is (to an extent) one of the worst parts of the shit sandwich on the WS side. QS might, as Sal mentioned, have a crippling inability to communicate. Or, he might not want to communicate with the person who harmed him so.

I think that as married people we tend to lean upon our spouses observations of our behaviors and to put some stock into those in terms of crafting our self-image and self-perception. After infidelity, it's all up for grabs. Meaning that QS is probably second guessing every single observation you've ever made about his personality, both positive and negative. So if you've said he's smart, or handsome, or non-communicative, or funny, or quiet, or whatever, he's retaking stock of all those things, because in his mind, you have no credibility and zero authority to diagnose X, Y, or Z about what he's doing wrong, and/or how to fix it or heal.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 10:44 AM, February 24th (Monday)]


Catlover's law: The second strongest impulse in human nature, after the maternal/paternal instinct, is the ability to rationalize something that we think is in our best interest.

Posts: 2302 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
nevergiveup10
♂ 41537
Member # 41537
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie,

I know my time in this is much shorter that yours, but I can relate. I think sometimes my BS doesn't trust herself so she's not always open about her true feelings. For a while it seemed we were on the right path, now it seems we are just treading water and I'm holding both of us up.

I hear the same thing, everything is "ok". Then when I am finally able to get her to open up, the real stuff comes out. She's told me that sometimes she's waiting for me to walk away so she doesn't have to make the decision. Ouch

This all definitely made me refocus on myself, if anything we waywards have to come out of this better, no matter what the outcome.

You know you've put your all into this, you've done everything you can regardless of the outcome. That's more than most can stomach


WH 39
BS 34
D-Day July 15, 2013
Together 10 years
Three great boys 8,5 & 2
Working on R

Posts: 99 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: East Coast
solus sto
♀ 30989
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

People for whom communication is difficult don't magically become great communicators post-betrayal, when feeling perhaps more vulnerable and unsafe than ever before in their lives.

You have made huge strides. It's quite possible that QS has made strides you can't see, through your anger and frustration.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9135 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
ProbableIceCream
♂ 37468
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what does QS stand for?


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 848 | Registered: Nov 2012
badchoice
♂ 35566
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had some great words of wisdom, but I don't. But like we have all heard on here it can be a long (2-5 years) process. Don't look at this as back to square one.

I am sorry your are suffering right now, but don't give up. And most of all be proud of the work you have done.

I want to fix him so badly. I would die to fix him, to help him, to heal him. But it's too little, too late. I've done too much damage.

Last night gave me a very clear look at what it looks and feels like to have lost someone.

I could have said the same thing after seeing my BW on Saturday.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
bionicgal
♀ 39803
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

People for whom communication is difficult don't magically become great communicators post-betrayal, when feeling perhaps more vulnerable and unsafe than ever before in their lives.

Lord, ain't that the truth, for both WS and BS. And, it is a bitter pill as a BS when you realize you have to do things differently to make things work, because really, you weren't perfect before the affair -- even if the A was in no way your fault.


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2241 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
MovingUpward
♂ 14866
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what does QS stand for?

QS stands for her H, username QuietStand


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 53295 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
JanaGreen
♀ 29341
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you're not looking for hugs but I'm offering anyway. ((HUGS))

I'm rooting for you guys. I think you're great Aubrie, and you work so hard and help so many people. I hate to see you and QS hurting.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 5-year-old daughter. Baby Green 2.0 expected June 2015!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 6962 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP, I've asked if it would help if I leave SI altogether. If he would post if I walked away. If he would reach out to the guys here. Different gentlemen here have PM'd him support. He's not interested. Why, I don't know.

Sal, he said he knew I was screwed up from day 1. He knew I was broken before I did. Was he looking for a project? Was he thinking I would shape up in a different environment? I have no idea. He said my cheated was not a surprise based on all my previous crappy choices. It was inevitable. There was never an illusion that I was a "catch" or something awesome. He knew going in that I was eyeballs deep in doo doo.

I do understand the fact BS question themselves post Dday. I have been very careful to build him up, encourage him, talk to him, and help in any way I know. However, like Sal said, if I'm a lyin' cheat to begin with, how can you trust the new person.

solus sto, I understand that post Dday communication will not change overnight. Especially if one individual doesn't have those habits to begin with. However, I thought there had been at least some progress. But that's not accurate either. Because of things he's said last night, I find he has either continued to withhold, or told me what he felt I would want to hear, which would make what he says a technical lie. Because he says what he really doesn't feel. So now I feel that if he does talk, I can't really take that at face value because I don't know if it's really his feelings, or what he wants me to hear. kwim?

Surfacy example:
QS: Where do you want to eat?
Me: I'm game for anything. I picked last time. Where do you want to go?
QS: Let's do Italian.

Four hours later, I hear about how he didn't want Italian. He really wanted Mexican, but he picked Italian because it's my favorite. Then we got there and the service was lousy and his dinner wasn't good.

#1. He didn't want it in the first place.
#2. The experience was crap and it further disgruntled him.

So it turns into a disaster.

Pick a subject. It's the same theme throughout. He "sacrifices" for everyone, then ends up angry/resentful/sad because it wasn't what he wanted in the first place. Then speak up! What. Do. You. Want?

I'm not angry. I'm hurt. And more than a little confused. And I have brought that here, not to him.

I can't make him open up. I realize this. I just don't know how to help him thru this. Or if I even can.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6527 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Shatteredreality
♀ 42481
Member # 42481
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, that sounds so frustrating and painful. I have lurked here a long while and am just now starting to post and I have appreciated your writing and self examination and generous observations and high standards, Aubrie.

If I can try to give something back to you after benefiting much from your writing, I would offer that unfortunately, no matter how mich you might want to, you can't be the one to heal your husband. Even if you are the one who cut him, his own body has to heal itself. Same with his heart. He has to do it and I think that must mean opening up to you which has been so hard for him.

And you have talked wisely and candidly about family of origin issues. He's a human being and he surely has those too. People that closed down often became so from early family dynamics, learning that shutting down is the way to keep safe and survive.

Whatever happened last night sounds painful and scary but at the same time it is an opening. He's giving you a glimpse of how he coped and it was really hard. Maybe after things calm down it will be possible to revisit in a safer space and open things up a little more.


WS

An interviewer once asked me if I could sum up everything I know about psychology in ten words or less. I said, "Hell, I can do it in two words: People cope." --Mira Kirshenbaum


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2014
Sal1995
♂ 39099
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

However, like Sal said, if I'm a lyin' cheat to begin with, how can you trust the new person.

Sorry if it came off that harshly. I didn't mean to cause further pain, just wanted to illustrate the mental hurdles that a BS has to overcome. We don't know what's real and what isn't anymore. We have moments when we wonder just who the hell did we marry. It's deeply disturbing. But I think that with time and a lot of hard work a BS can be shown that who he really married is a fallible human being, just like him, who is at her core a very decent person. It just takes a long time to trust that.

There was never an illusion that I was a "catch" or something awesome.

I seriously doubt that. It's obvious to everyone on this site that despite your mistakes, you have a lot going for you. Also, he made a choice to spend the rest of his life with you despite whatever issues were known to him, so you must have seemed like a pretty decent "catch" to him back in the day. At the very least, he really loves you.

ETA:

He "sacrifices" for everyone, then ends up angry/resentful/sad because it wasn't what he wanted in the first place. Then speak up! What. Do. You. Want?

I'm married to the female version of this person. "Resentment" over what seems like years of trivial things that (to me) don't amount to squat apparently was one of the big drivers of her affair. You get punished a lot in a passive way. It can be maddening. A year's worth of MC/IC has helped us with these issues. Are the two of you working on these issues in counseling?

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 12:03 PM, February 24th (Monday)]


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1495 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shatteredreality, thank you. And welcome to SI.

Sal, it's not harsh. It's my reality. It's my life.

I know he loves me. At the moment, I'm not entirely sure why. But ya know. He's still here.

We aren't in counseling. Been going at this alone. He said if I wanted counseling for myself it was fine. He won't go for himself, and he wasn't too keen about MC either.

Thanks for the help gang.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 12:05 PM, February 24th (Monday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6527 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
ICECOLD
♀ 40258
Member # 40258
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Aubrie, I've read your posts here in the Wayward section but don't really comment in here. Now I just wanted to add one thought.

I REALLY think you guys should try marriage counseling. Even if he doesn't want to go, try try try to get him to.

You guys are lacking in a huge part of marriage: Communication. If you cant truly communicate with your life partner, I feel you will always be missing something huge in your marriage.

The is a pre -affair issue, that is making everything post affair worse.

Plus, there is nothing more annoying then Martyrs, when no one asked them to be one. Your husband need to learn how to balance his want and his family wants. He should be resentful with himself not speaking up, not the people he martyrs himself for.


"If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit."

"If you think the grass is greener, you're welcome to take a hike"

BS:47
WS:45
Kids

R: one foot in, and one foot out


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Atlanta GA
Topic Posts: 46
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