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User Topic: Thoughts Please!!! Confused...
Neverwudaguessed
♀ 41884
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband and I are 6 months from DDAy, and have had MANY ups and downs, but we have both been feeling more hopeful and stronger lately. Then we had the OW's private message on FB which we are dealing with through a lawyer's letter. We got through it together and I felt better about how we supported each other through the feelings and reactions we each had. It felt like true progress in how we relate. Then came yesterday.

My friend confided in me that her husband is thinking of leaving her. I immediately told my husband. These are friends that we vacation with every year, celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, baby namings with, Ö.. Well, it turns out that the husband had confessed this to my WH at lunch two weeks ago, a lunch I knew about and asked about. At the time he said that the husband had spent the whole lunch talking about himself. Financial issues, work, etc. He actually shared that there was a woman at work that he is extremely attracted to and that she clearly wants him as well. Apparently my WH tried to get him to agree to get help, but he clammed up and changed the subject.
When he shared this with me yesterday, I had an extreme reaction. I felt a panic attack coming on. I had to leave the house, and I just sobbed for hours. He begged me not to leave, but I just couldn't sort out the strength of my reaction and needed to be alone.
It turns out that 1: I could not believe that he was told something so heavy and did not tell me when we are supposed to be 100% open and honest, and 2: the fact that he was struggling with this information for 2 weeks and I had NO idea triggered me hard. If I had no idea about this, how could I know if he cheats on me again, which until that moment, I was as sure as a BS can ever really be that this would not happen, or more likely it brought back the feelings after dray of "oh, my god! How could I have NOT known???"

When I came back, he said that he completely understood why I was upset, that he had only saw it as a friend asking to keep in confidence what if he shared with me, would be able too difficult for me to keep from his wife, my close friend. He thought it would have put me in too difficult a position, but looking back thought maybe he should have told his friend NOT to tell him anything he does not want me to know. I am not even sure that this is appropriate or realistic, but I think it was my WH's attempt to figure out how to deal with this in the future.

Should I have been upset? was this a broken promise of "NO SECRETS ever anymore"? or is this a completely different situation? I don't want to make my WH feel like he cannot have a relationship with his friends, but I was sooo triggered by this. So confused!


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 733 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
sisoon
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gently, IMO this wasn't his secret. If he promised his friend confidentiality, that's what he owed his friend.

looking back thought maybe he should have told his friend NOT to tell him anything he does not want me to know.

That's exactly what he should have done, and what he should do going forward.

You're in uncharted territory. You're both very vulnerable to taking wrong turns. I think this is one of them.

I understand your response. I think I would respond the same, if my W had kept something so important from me - but

1) Have you revealed to your H every confidence you've received from your friends?

2) Did you really want to know this?

I don't mean to minimize the pain here. I just mean to show your H was in a very difficult, lose-lose position.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Morhurt
♀ 40166
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Such a difficult position for both of you. I think your reaction was totally understandable and it sounds like your H was very loving and understanding towards you, that is excellent. I agree with having a plan for future encounters like this. I try to be clear to all of my close friends that what they tell me is shared with my H, we don't have secrets between us (now). I'm sorry you had this horrible trigger and I wish strength for your friend.
If I understand correctly... She is now a BS? If so then I think her WS isn't a FOM at the moment. I would not feel comfortable (I don't think) with my H spending time with him.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 960 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Kyrie
♀ 41825
Member # 41825
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listen to sisoon on this one, Never. I had the identical response/trigger when my H told me about something he knew would be painful to me 2 weeks after he learned of it. However, we used the experience and our behavior as a tool to understand each other better.

Your response? It's only been 6 months, so your response it totally normal. Your feelings are your feelings and once a trigger is activated, it is so very hard to reel it in. Unfortunately, these kinds of events/triggers are part of healing. You will have more and you will be OK. And if you try, you can sometimes use them as a catalyst to improve your relationship.

Get inside your H's skin and try to see his perspective. Maybe he mishandled it,

You're in uncharted territory. You're both very vulnerable to taking wrong turns.
At the same time, see to it that he truly gets why you responded the way you did. Most of the time, you can only do this once the triggered response has calmed down.

The key: try not to allow fear to block you from turning towards each other. You have to learn how to navigate this kind of stuff together in healthy ways. If it helps, maybe your trigger and his keeping information can be handled as two separate issues. Both need to be addressed, though, and both of you need to listen. Maybe you can see this as a necessary step to healing from the A.

It's tough, but not impossible.
PEACE


Me: BW (47), WH (48)
Married 24 yrs, 2 teenagers
DD#1 01.20.12 When diagnosed w/STD
Told it was 15 mo. PA that ended 6 years ago
DD#2 04.06.14 Truth: PA was 2yrs/8mo
Separated for 6 weeks
Reconciling and healing now

Posts: 230 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: southeast USA
Jovie
♀ 41956
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can understand why you'd be upset. Especially given the nature of the "secret". And ultimately, you feel how you feel and that's that.

It is a tough situation, but I generally operate that anything I tell my friends is going to be told to their SO. So I don't think its unrealistic for your WH to set that example going forward.

1) Have you revealed to your H every confidence you've received from your friends?

2) Did you really want to know this?

^^^ these are very good points to think about as well, although, I think things will feel different post-A and probably need to be dealt with a little differently especially early on.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jan 2014
overandone
39162
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mmmm, tricky one. Does your friend know the reason her H might be leaving her, ie for another woman? If not, she needs to.

I understand your H being told this in confidence, but I would have hoped your H could have talked to him about the importance of being honest with your friend,that there is someone else. As he hasn't, do you think you should ask her H to tell her, or should you ? I really don't know, but bit's not fair that she should be kept in the dark.

It's such a difficult situation, maybe he should have told his friend that you have no secrets between you any more, and that he would have to confide in you?


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 233 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
SorrowBhindSmile
♀ 38139
Member # 38139
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly....i would have reacted the exact same way you did. My initial gut reaction would have been "he is keeping secrets from me again"

These are difficult waters to navigate post A. very difficult indeed.

Yes, he is allowed to have friends, and yes, confidentiality is a part of that....HOWEVER...the CONTEXT of this particular confidentiality is what is triggery and unacceptable. The way i would see it....this friend of your WH confessed that he is involved in an EA, and by giving your WH this information, he is asking him to be an enabler and support him/keep his secret. THAT is unacceptable. THAT is not right. Damn right its triggery, damn right it brings everything back, damn right its painful....especially because now you are in a position where you have this information....what do you say to your friend?? You KNOW the pain, the horror, the grief, the sadness. Now what? that brings up a whole swell of emotions.

On the flip side.....what makes an A any different from any other confidentiality??? Nothing, really. Is an affair a worse secret than embezzling, or gambling away your retirement? Depends on your point of view, i suppose...but i'd go with no, wrong is wrong is wrong. What confidentialities do you keep? where do you draw the line? Its really an impossible situation.

Everyone sees things different. Maybe its just a matter of open, honest, transparent applies to everything, including friendships. Maybe its best to issue a disclaimer to friends and tell them ahead of time "i dont keep secrets from my spouse. We have a commitment to honesty and transparency always. whatever you tell me in confidence will be shared with them"

hugs to you!


Me: BW
Him: WH
OW: My former "dear friend"/neighbor
Married 20+
Kids: 3
D-Day 12/2012
Committed to R 7/8/2013
"Believe in yourself and all that you are. Know that there is something inside you that is greater than any obstacle"

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013
HUFI-PUFI
♂ 25460
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Neverwudaguessed))

I agree what sisoon said.

Unfortunately, in the aftermath of the A, as we find ourselves negotiating boundaries and terms in our new relationships, its not uncommon to find that we did not foresee each and every possibility and eventuality which could occur and thus, we often find that we failed to find common ground as to the appropriate course of action to cover a specific incident.

I think your reaction was normal and quite understandable. I also think that the discussion you and your H had afterwards is a great example of effective communication and support.

Neverwudaguessed - looking back, he thought that maybe he should have told his friend NOT to tell him anything he does not want me to know. I am not even sure that this is appropriate or realistic, but I think it was my WH's attempt to figure out how to deal with this in the future.

This line of thinking is appropriate and realistic. Its quite appropriate that you set boundaries and its more than realistic that he makes decisions as to what friends fit into the FOM (Friends of the Marriage) category and who don't. Sometimes making that determination means bringing relationships with friends (and family at times) to a end as they are not supportive of you as individuals and of your marriage. There have been many here on SI who decided to cut off sisters, brothers and BFF etc as they tried to only associate with people who were supportive.

HUFI

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 10:23 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3285 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Neverwudaguessed
♀ 41884
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sisoon, as always, thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I do see that he was in a lose-lose situation here and he initially thought that the friend asked to meet with him to check up on how my husband was doing, so he clearly was blindsided by what the friend told him.
I do struggle with the idea that, in my mind, he should be able to have a relationship where friends are allowed to share without fear of the information being passed on to someone else, but I also feel in a way like he should "want" to share such important things with me. He stated that he did want to talk it through with me, but the confidence issue AND the position I would be in (and now am in) would be unfair.
Morhurt; this FOM has not proven to be a good friend during this time; is wife has been the one who reached out to my H often since the affair came out. SHe asked my permission first; I knew how angry she was at him for what he did to me, but she also loved him and wanted him to know that she was concerned for him too. His father is dying of cancer and hers died of cancer as well so she has that additional reason to be concerned for him. I consider her to be a true FOM, and an amazing woman but I agree, her husband is clearly not a FOM. In fact, my WH has expressed that he feels that it would be in her best interest that she let him leave because of the way he was talking. My wh is very angry at this "friend" for what he has done. So far, he has backed away from the idea that there is anything happening with this woman, but we suspect that there may be. I broached this subject with my friend and she is absolutely sure that he is faithful, but asked him again after our conversation and he continues to be consistent. UGH! On the other hand, my husband immediately asked this man to get counseling before he made any decision that he could not take back. He promptly changed the subject. It feels like too much to even handle at such early stages of our own R to be dealing with this. I feel like we need to push him to tell her an get help, but I know he will not. What next?


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 733 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
MissesJai
♀ 24849
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like we need to push him to tell her an get help, but I know he will not. What next?
You can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do, and of course, you know this. What next? Nothing - stay out of it and let this man deal with the consequences of his choices.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6024 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Neverwudaguessed
♀ 41884
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you really think it is not our obligation to do something now that we know something? Do I really sit back now? It feels so unfair and wrong. It ALL feels so wrong on so MANY levels. The thought of her going through what we have is unbearable. The thought of her not know ing and forging on? Also unbearable.


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 733 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
Rebreather
♀ 30817
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your marriage is your primary relationship. All others come second. Once you really get to this place, as partners, these issues will fade into the background. There is nothing I wouldn't tell my spouse about my friends, and vice versa.

He should have told you, for merely the fact that secret-keeping is devastating to the trust-rebuilding process. You know this now, going forward, as does he.

As for your poor friends, I can only say what I would do. And that's tell her. And I'd have my spouse sit down with the male friend and tell him having an affair was the dumbest thing he has ever done and caused untold damage to all those around him, and give him a copy of Not Just Friends. Are you guys friends of their marriage, or not?


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6646 | Registered: Jan 2011
MissesJai
♀ 24849
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How much more can you do? You have discussed it with her, she has discussed it with him and he denies. She believes him. Unless you have concrete proof you can show her, it's all speculation at this point. And then there's this:
It feels like too much to even handle at such early stages of our own R to be dealing with this.
You have enough on your plate. Don't take their marriage on while you are still trying to save your own. IF he's cheating and it comes to light - which it will - then as her friend, be there to support her just as she was there to support you.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6024 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
whattheh
♀ 40032
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you and he have a "no secrets" policy then he should have told you. I don't believe that it was his friend's secret once it was divulged to your fWH. So he should have told you. Nothing should be kept from the other if you have a "no secrets" policy.

Adhering to this policy will build both intimacy and trust.

[This message edited by whattheh at 1:08 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 589 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Neverwudaguessed
♀ 41884
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, MissesJai, I am crying now as I am reading your last response. It feels so helpless to be here, to know what she will face and to know how much she will need someone to be there for her, as she has been for me. It just breaks my heart, and my own husband cried just yesterday thinking of what will happen to their family. Infidelity is just so devastating. Maybe staying together after our own affair has in some way helped him to think that the consequences won't be so bad?


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 733 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
Alex CR
♀ 27968
Member # 27968
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow.....tough situation. Don't blame you at all for reacting the way you did and glad you and your H can use this as a learning experience and decide how situations like this are handled in the future.

I am of the mind, though, that if you tell one person in a marriage you've told both.....IMO, husbands and wives shouldn't keep secrets from each other for anybody, even a friend. And as a friend, I assume when I tell my girlfriend something in confidence, she shares it with her husband.

The best thing to remember, though, is once you tell anything to another person, it's no a longer secret.


BS Me 61
WS Him 62
Married 33
Together 40
DD 11/16/09
The future looks good....

Posts: 1723 | Registered: Mar 2010
Tearsoflove
♀ 8271
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I look at this as an opportunity for you and your husband to set boundaries with friends for the sake of being completely open and honest with each other. When a friend asks me to keep a confidence, I always respond that I don't keep secrets from my husband so if it's something I shouldn't be telling him, the friend shouldn't share the secret.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4265 | Registered: Sep 2005
timetraveler
♀ 40714
Member # 40714
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It turns out that 1: I could not believe that he was told something so heavy and did not tell me when we are supposed to be 100% open and honest, and 2: the fact that he was struggling with this information for 2 weeks and I had NO idea triggered me hard. If I had no idea about this, how could I know if he cheats on me again, which until that moment, I was as sure as a BS can ever really be that this would not happen, or more likely it brought back the feelings after dday of "oh, my god! How could I have NOT known???"

This is only my 3rd post(I'm an obsessive/compulsive lurker) but I felt compelled to offer my understanding for what "Never" is going through. I do agree with many of the previous posters regarding the content of the secret and how it was a lose/lose scenario.

I was lied to for 4 years. We reconciled based on lies. We rebuilt our M based on his lies deceptions and omissions.

"Never's" reaction is so in line with what I am feeling. It's not the content of the confidence that was shared but the ability of the WS to conceal the information. It was obviously upsetting to him and he knew it would be upsetting to his BS. His ability to withhold this info from his BS and decide what info she should have access to or not, is continuing Wayward patterns IMHO. He was not being authentic with himself either because it was unsettling to him, he wrestled with it and still did not disclose it until confronted by "Never"

We live in a brave new world now post-A. Transparency and 100% honesty on every topic is required.
A BS that has been lied to and deceived so effortlessly by the WS has to have the "No Lies or Secrets Ever" clause branded into the soul of the WS. I doubt my history, my judgment, my ability to know what reality is, because it is fluid and changing daily. Additional secrets only make the decision to work on the M even more complicated.

Rebreather

He should have told you, for merely the fact that secret-keeping is devastating to the trust-rebuilding process. You know this now, going forward, as does he.


I'm sure this can be learning experience but with every new lesson comes another layer of pain. Healing and wisdom are slow in coming.


BW-49
WH-52
M-27, 2 great kids 20's
DD#1 1/10
DD#2 8/13, same COW

When love beckons to you, follow him, though his ways are hard & steep. For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Kahlil Gibran


Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 2013
Neverwudaguessed
♀ 41884
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Timetraveler: It's not the content of the confidence that was shared but the ability of the WS to conceal the information. It was obviously upsetting to him and he knew it would be upsetting to his BS. His ability to withhold this info from his BS and decide what info she should have access to or not, is continuing Wayward patterns IMHO. He was not being authentic with himself either because it was unsettling to him, he wrestled with it and still did not disclose it until confronted by "Never"

EXACTLY! That is so scary to me. Why would he not WANT or NEED to confide in me? We are closer than ever after he worked REALLY hard to break down his wall to keep emotions away. We have grown so much in 6 months together; both of us have been working hard and have become very connected. I rushed to talk to him about it when she said he was thinking of leaving. (I did however ask if I could tell my Husband, and she said yes). I might have anyway because it was so distressing to me. So how was it so easy for him to keep it buried inside????


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 733 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
MissesJai
♀ 24849
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bring you to tears. I know this entire sitch has got to be triggering you like crazy.
Maybe staying together after our own affair has in some way helped him to think that the consequences won't be so bad?
It's possible but it's another justification to add to the many he's already developed.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6024 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Topic Posts: 20

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