"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

idontknowwhy5 posted 3/3/2014 09:58 AM

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Sorry for unclear title/content. I am the betrayed husband, my wife had the affair, and I am relating some things I found out that I don't understand.
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So my wayward spouse has been cheating, both emotionally and physically, with a man whom she knew is married with children. She had been acting strangely, and after a mutual friend suggested that something was wrong I began suspecting. In retrospect I should have seen what was right in front of me, but I guess I just couldn't believe it. I found that she had lied about an important meeting out of town on two occasions, leaving me with our children to go have a weekend-long physical affair with the same person.

I confronted her after I found out, and told her that if she wanted our marriage to work, she had to quit all communication and go to marriage counseling / therapy. She agreed. We started therapy. But it wasn't very long until she started communicating with this person again.

The second time I found out, I filed for divorce, assuming it was over. She begged me not to go through with it, that we could still save the marriage. I loved her then, and I still do now despite everything, so I had the divorce complaint withdrawn in the hopes that we really could fix things, both for ourselves and for our children.

She has continued to communicate with this out of state person, and each time I catch her and we confront she agrees to stop and just changes the means of communication, up to and including a secret cellphone and multiple email accounts and various chat applications.

I discovered that she had been creating some kind of crazy fantasy world with this guy. She had multiple email accounts, some of which were imaginary relatives, and she had a series of invented characters in her 'life' that she would tell this guy about and even communicate to him with. For instance she had a crazy imaginary x boyfriend that was stalking her and assaulting her. She had him believing that she was single, never married and with no kids. I contacted the other man and gave him enough information that should have been enough to convince him that he was being lied to. As part of our recovery/therapy at that point we both agreed to no further contact, again. Of course she was lying about that.

She continued and she had convinced this other person that she was pregnant despite protection (that was fun to read about) and they deliberated what to do about it, which coincided with my insistence that she get checked for STDs. At some point she convinced the other person that her imaginary stalker x was blackmailing her into not talking to him during the period I would discover the communication and she would change her method. There are lots of things where she takes her real life and alters it in the fantasy thing she has created with him. A half dozen of the invented people were a strange amalgam of people we know in real life, and then had some fantastical additional aspects added. There were fake siblings, fake friends, fake activities, fake encounters with various other people. What really bothered me was a darker conversation I had just recently discovered where they both talked about this imaginary stalker x being killed or taken care of once and for all. It scared me, so I took steps to ensure that this other man knew it was all a lie, and he finally believed he'd been lied to about all kinds of crazy things and called it off with her. Now she's finally in that uncomfortable mourning phase over the end of her affair, and maybe just maybe we can begin to work on whatever is left of our marriage.

So a big question I have is, while I expect wayward spouses to lie, both to their betrayed spouses and to the other person in order to conceal and continue the affair, how typical is it for the wayward spouse to create elaborate fantasy worlds with invented people and situations in order to manipulate others? What am I dealing with here?

[This message edited by idontknowwhy5 at 10:09 AM, March 3rd (Monday)]

Deeply Scared posted 3/3/2014 10:02 AM

You have a PM.

Edited to add: Mass confusion there...sorry!! Welcome to SI

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:10 AM, March 3rd (Monday)]

MovingUpward posted 3/3/2014 10:11 AM

Welcome to SI. So sorry that you find yourself needing to be here.

Reading what you wrote about her fantasy world sounds very elaborate. Have you talked to your therapist about this fantasy world. The degree of detail and effort makes me wonder if it is a fantasy world in her mind. This might be a sign of deeper issues which is why I would let the therapist know and use their expertise to help.

[This message edited by MovingUpward at 10:11 AM, March 3rd (Monday)]

Getting to Happy posted 3/3/2014 10:13 AM

You said it...Crazy.

If she is that sick as to not only cheat but make up a fantasy life...Do you really want to stick around for all of that.

How about your life, what do you want from your marriage, can you trust her enough to fulfill your needs in your marriage to her?? Did you really sign up for all of this weirdness?

Being a side piece of ass for another man is horrible in its own right but adding all of that delusion and strange fantasy might be the death knell for your union with her.

Now that you know, how can you un-know that your WW is a fornicating cray cray?

RUN Forrest...RUN!

BtraydWife posted 3/3/2014 10:30 AM

I don't recall hearing about a WS making up so much. Many times they tell the OM that they aren't married but that's about it. WOW

Her OM must be a bit of his block as well if you've revealed the extent of her lies and he still came back for more.

Do you think it could be some elaborate role playing and they are both aware it's all made up stuff? Who knows how much of the stuff you read about him is true as well?

imaginary stalker x being killed or taken care of once and for all

Holy Cow! I'd watch your back! I'm not exaggerating. You were cast in the role of stalker. That's scary serious shit!

Can you get her in for a psyche evaluation where you can give the Dr print outs of these emails?

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. I hope someone can offer some real help for your situation.

norabird posted 3/3/2014 10:43 AM

Goodness. My ex lied to women about being single, lied to me about being in IC and not seeing the OW, but this type of elaborate construction points to a whole other mystifying level of brokenness.

Gently, you say you are the one who exposed the A and caused it to end and that your WW is mourning that loss....so why do you also believe that now she can work on your M, or that she is even capable of that? Why are you still invested in the idea that you can save this terribly flawed relationship?

I know that when we love someone we become pretty blinded, so I understand how hard it is to let go. But you really need to try and step back and get some objectivity. Your WW doesn't seem remorseful and hasn't taken any reassuring actions that would imply she has changed or is going into IC to figure out why she behaved this way. Yet you are still entrusting her with responsibility for your emotional well-being.

It is time you start trying to distance yourself as I think neither you nor I nor your WW really knows what exactly you are dealing with in all of her lies. But it certainly isn't something that's going to prove safe for you.

idontknowwhy5 posted 3/3/2014 10:50 AM

I've just mentioned the fantasy world to the therapist, but we haven't really discussed it yet. Maybe next week. We were under the belief that the affair had ended and were working on other things, emotional communication etc.

Well, I still love her, and we have children. If it's possible to save the marriage I would prefer to save it. I did sign up for better or for worse, and this sure as heck is worse. If it turns out that her actions are the result of some kind of medical condition then I feel I at least owe it to our family to attempt to find out if it's treatable. If it's not some medical condition or she refuses treatment or treatment is ultimately ineffective and this behavior continues then I'm sure where that leaves us, I guess I am kind of holding those thoughts in abeyance.

I'll never un-know, and trust will be a long slow journey to a destination that may never arrive. Trite but true, there will likely always be a lingering ache regardless of how our relationship ends up.

I guess I felt that we could never begin to work on repairing until the affair itself ended, and she had just refused to end it. I didn't know about a lot of the fantasy world until recently. We've agreed to both couples and now individual counseling, so I'll see how that goes.

She's still angry that I denied her agency, by insisting she delete the extra accounts, get rid of the secret cellphone etc, but I'm not feeling bad about that. I would have preferred she did it on her own, but I can't knowingly allow it to go on.

I guess there are certain levels of existence I am prepared to accept, ceding my own needs or desires in the interest of my children's well-being. This is assuming of course that their interests are best served by staying together, that may not turn out to be the case. But a continuing additional future affair are certainly not acceptable.

-- edit --
Remorse. No I don't get the feeling that she's remorseful, I was hoping that's something that would come after the A was finally ended...

[This message edited by idontknowwhy5 at 10:53 AM, March 3rd (Monday)]

norabird posted 3/3/2014 11:10 AM

I certainly honor your desire to be true to your vows and I know for my own part I felt I had to try first--I couldn't just sever the ties. And I was not even married and didn't have kids so I can only imagine how much stronger that feeling must be for you.

But the anger at you for denying her 'agency' (um, whereas she could deny you the truth and that was fine?) is very worrying. She is not conforming to the script you hoped you would see once the A ended. At some point, you may have to throw that script out and accept that the belief in her ability to R is your own fantasy.

bionicgal posted 3/3/2014 11:21 AM

Whoa. That is a lot of fantasy! Most affairs are fantasies, and perhaps she kind of got un-moored and lost sight of reality? I don't know - is she normally prone to kind of elaborate, fanciful thinking? Or is she sort of normally down-to-earth, and this is a real departure?

She seemed to think she was playing a character, and could just kind of make it up as she went along. It is easy to do that online, and it sounds like she got carried away. Not knowing how old you are, whether you have children, and whether she has a history of kind of taking leave of her senses, it is hard to judge. It could be anything from immaturity and self-centeredness to pathology, honestly. I'd run it all by your therapist -- and keep posting.

Jduff posted 3/3/2014 11:27 AM

Man, that was a jaw-dropping WOW!

What really bothered me was a darker conversation I had just recently discovered where they both talked about this imaginary stalker x being killed or taken care of once and for all. It scared me, so I took steps to ensure that this other man knew it was all a lie, and he finally believed he'd been lied to about all kinds of crazy things and called it off with her.

I hope you also took the opportunity and explained to the OM that this kind of conversation can be taken to the police. Conversations pertaining to premeditated murder is serious shit. I understand having to "watch your back", but also the police can as well.

Neverwudaguessed posted 3/3/2014 11:37 AM

I am sorry that this is all happening to you; I am wondering if it is possible that there is a diagnosable condition occurring with you wife due to the elaborate nature of the fantasy that has so many facets to it that are not based in reality whatsoever. I know that concept may be scary, but if this is the case and she were evaluated and properly diagnosed, the correct therapy and or medication may be extremely helpful, as well as potentially a requirement for healing to begin. Just a thought….
Hang in there; we are all here for you . I hope you continue to seek out support as this unfolds. there are so many members with TREMENDOUS wisdom here, and great compassion. (((idontknowwhy5)))

idontknowwhy5 posted 3/3/2014 11:43 AM

Her ability to R certainly is my fantasy, question is will it ever be my reality. I don't have a roadmap for this situation, I don't know what at this point is too far outside of reasonable.

I discovered the really disturbing content about 20ish days after it was communicated. I contacted the OM and made sure it was clear this was a crazy fantasy world, both to end the A for good and to make sure there could be no cases of mistaken identity, ie I wanted to make absolutely sure that there was no chance of a threat, and at the moment I do not feel threatened.

idontknowwhy5 posted 3/5/2014 11:07 AM

I thought it was over, she was crying hysterically about it being over. I just found out that she's still communicating with the OM. And the communications are full of crazy things. I don't understand it, it's like she's two different people.

I think we're done.

Marriage counselor has recommended specifically against contacting OM's wife, which seems to run counter to what a lot of online resources suggest doing.

Getting to Happy posted 3/5/2014 11:17 AM

Please let the OBS know what her WH has been up to with your WW.

Please. It is the humane thing to do.

Also exposing their 'luuuurrrrvvvee' to the glare of light and truth will kill the fantasy fun of their nasty antics.

...it's like she's two different people.
I think we're done.

I think your right.

Brandon808 posted 3/5/2014 11:29 AM

Marriage counselor has recommended specifically against contacting OM's wife

First I want to say that I agree with the MC's recommendation. Yes...contact the OM"s wife. Second I am to finally see this kind of advice from an MC. And I mean shocked in a good way. The OM's wife has a right to know what is going on in her life.

I also agree that it appears to be done as far as your M.
Your WW is not remorseful and will not end the A.
There really is no way to continue in the M under those circumstances.

My own xww did not want D but would not acknowledge her behavior much less own it.
Your WW not wanting to lose you is more about not wanting the consequences of her actions.

SisterMilkshake posted 3/5/2014 11:31 AM

I don't want to make you feel paranoid, idontknowwhy5, but I have heard of this elaborate kind of fantasy world made by cheating spouses. I have heard of it often on the Discovery ID channel. Most of the time it ends in murder or attempted murder.

Your WW doesn't feel remorseful at all. She is an expert liar, cheater and actress. I feel at this point, you do need to file for divorce.That you are indeed, done. I am so sorry.(((idkw5)))

What is the reasoning of the MC for not telling the betrayed wife of the MM your WW is having sex and a relationship with? I believe it is best if the other BS knew what is going on. If she had known first, would you like to have been informed? Most would answer "yes" to that question.

eta: I am confused by your post, Brandon.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:34 AM, March 5th (Wednesday)]

toomanyregrets posted 3/5/2014 11:31 AM

Why would the marriage counselor be against telling the OM's wife?

You need another counselor.

nestlee posted 3/5/2014 11:56 AM

I think the OM wife has every right to know what is going on. You should Contact her Immediately and let her know.

TrulySad posted 3/5/2014 12:14 PM

Please tell the other BW. She NEEDS to know.

I went through this with an ex. He was a cop, and his stories were so beyond crazy. He had me believing them in the beginning, but after a while, you just start questioning everything. I had two counselors tell me they were the biggest set of lies and manipulation they'd ever heard. The counselor who had the chance to meet with him also, told me to get out of the house. I also met with a Lt. at the sheriffs office, and he told me to get out, to be very afraid.

The point I'm making is... you can't help her. This isn't normal and a counselor needs to step in. All you can do is protect yourself. If this is something that can be fixed on her end, let her do that on her end. You need to move forward with the truth, and you won't be getting that from her.

Take care of yourself....

JaneDeaux posted 3/5/2014 12:31 PM

Even if she could explain the fantasy world, could you ever trust her? Seems to me she needs intensive therapy before you even talk R.