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I am currently on the fence about pursuing D or staying in limbo/the hostile hotel for the time being.

He is hostile and will not talk to me except to tell me what is wrong with me...(I have too much time to obsess about what is wrong with him, I don't support him, etc. HIM HIM HIM).

I said I don't understand why you don't leave when two weeks ago you raged we were over, you were through and you were packing on Sunday. (when I told him I found his old burner phone (that never existed) that showed years more involvement with AP. )

He says, I decided I don't have to leave and you can't do anything about that.

I say...well I think I can.

He says....do what you want, but I'm telling you that if you start anything like that....ALL HELL WILL REIGN DOWN ON YOU.
This had the desired effect and instilled fear in me. I do not want this person as an opponent of mine in any way. He is scary.

There is validity to his statement. I will be financially screwed and he will have it all.

I had thought he would be decent, he has previously told my brother he would be decent.

But this pod person.....is mentally unstable.

I think I have to ride this out to see what I can turn in my favor.

I do have an appt to see lawyer on Tuesday.

I'm glad you have an appointment with a lawyer. Don't let his threats paralyze you. See the lawyer, and see what THEY say. They know the truth, not just what the thing you are married to thinks will happen.

This is actually a blessing in disguise.

He tipped his hand out of anger. He has told you in plain language exactly who he is. Believe him and plan accordingly.

Complete 180 on him while you plan. Copies of finances, affair evidence and lawyer(s) consultations all quietly. Tell him nothing. He won't be reasonable or fair, he's already told you so. Use this knowledge to get your bitch boots on and put the pointy heel square up his ass.

You can do this.

Do what the other commenters have said, and ask your attorney about a restraining order. He did tip his hand, so be sure to cover yourself.

Don't let his threats hold you in limbo. Don't! Pursue the D. You can't stay with someone because they become aggressive--quite the opposite, it is the sign to get out. And guess what, there are divorce laws!!! Those are what will dictate how you are treated in the settlement. Do try to get some money pulled out of the joint accounts, etc so you are protected (whatever advice others have on protecting yourself financially, follow it--they know best!)

My X got like this after DDay #2. Everything was about him. Never in his life had he ever even raised his voice to me. All of a sudden he started raging at me, saying the cruelest things imaginable, talking out loud to himself about how to take advantage of me financially, told me I had to move out. When you say your WS is mentally unstable-- mine clearly was, too. Maybe he always was deep down, I don't know. But it came to a head when he sexually assaulted me after I made it clear I was going to S/D and rejected him.

Please don't let that happen to you. Listen to others here. I'm glad you are talking to a L. Tell them everything you just told us. Gather evidence. Hide some money away. Come up with a Plan A, B and C for where you can go either long term or on a moment's notice if he gets too scary.

I thought for sure I would get a call that my X was in the looney bin after I left. I never did. I think that's what people mean when they say "he showed you who he is." I would have never guessed it... but when the personality disordered are kicked off into their disordered territory for whatever reason (fear of losing kibbles, fear of losing money, fear of losing control), they are scary people and not safe to be around.

((hugs))

Something I did was got to the women's shelter to discuss my fears about my XH. They helped me see that I was being abused, he didn't hit me, but I didn't see that other behaviors were abusive. They gave me a safety plan to fill out so that I knew what I needed to do if he got violent.

I agree with the others make your plans quietly. Don't tip your hand. If you can get gift cards when you are shopping as a way to set aside money.

When dday happened for me I had no idea how I was going to get by. He had it all figured out how he was going to divide the assets we had. Turns out there are laws as to how assets are divided. That must have been a shock to "opposing". They will protect you.

Sorry you are living in such a stressful situtation. It does get better.

You need to make a safety plan. If you go to the Investigation forum there is a safety plan thread. Please start working on one ASAP.

If you can safely make the purchase, please get a VAR you can carry on you at all times. Next time he starts yelling at you or threatening to rain hell down on you, record it. Don't let him know. OR, get a nanny cam or two.

The thing is, even if all hell does rain down, you'll still be okay. I have been through hell, sister. I'm back in it again now. But I'm surviving. You will survive, too. Being in a relationship with someone who gives themselves permission to say shit to you & threaten you with hell is no way to live. Even being out but desperate, like me, is better than that kind of fear & soul death.

When you meet with the L be sure to tell about the threat(S) your husband has made. It's not acceptable.

Whatever happens, keep the appt with the lawyer on Tuesday.

If you decide to proceed, then all you have to do is give the okay. If you pull back, then at least you know how the land lies. And that is a great comfort, believe me. It will also give you confidence that you can face a future without him. Make sure you have all you ducks lined up and that you know which direction you are taking.

Confidence is the key!

The ONLY way to fight a bully is to stand up for yourself (notice that I didn't say stand up to *him*).

If you let his *threat* make you stand-down, then guess what happens? He'll get worse.

Quietly make your plans. Carry a VAR (use nanny cams like NG suggested) and your cell on you at all times when he is around. Have a plan -- either have someone work on it with you or 'play out' various scenarios in your head and how you will react. If he acts menacingly towards you (more than just spouting off his verbal diarrhea) then call the cops. There was a time when things were extremely volatile between stbx and I and during an argument....he kind of came stomping towards me (think puffy peacock), and I told him that if he touched me, I was calling the cops. He must have known that I was serious, by the tone of my voice and look in my eye, because he stopped. And even better -- he Never pulled that shit with me again.

But, MIP....don't poke the bear. Don't argue with him when he tells you what is or is not going to happen. When he tells you that you can't do anything about something -- say nothing or "ok" and put it on your mental list as something to check with the L on.

He is just tryin o control you with fear.

See the attorney, obtain solid advice and give WH a raincoat. Because YOU will rain on his parade.

Take back your powere.

Thank you all for your support, I really need it and it gets me through.
Gonna, I am definitely guilty of poking the bear and you are right it gets me nothing....he does not care what I feel. He is fine with his mantra that makes him feel good of-- this is all my problem because I can't let go of the past. Every pain I feel is my fault. I can't tell you how much worse that makes the pain of the last years and the pain of discovering the phone. To be told that it is my fault because of a defect I have of not forgetting, not forgetting what I don't even know.
I think I maybe am weaker than other people? The pain at times is so overwhelming, incapacitating, panic-inducing, and that is when I poke the bear. Is it that negative (or I guess worse negative) attention is better than no attention?
Can other people handle the pain better?

I really am thinking this....that I am weaker than other people, or so damaged by all the betrayals that I am a spineless, crushed, nothing.

Where is the great self respect and fortitude and courage supposed to come from?

I am in a state that I describe as either being a burn victim where you are incapable of moving so as not to induce more hurt or a person in the middle of a war zone, huddled and waiting for the next incoming missile or bomb or shrapnel.

Is this not rational? Am I guilty of being overdramatic or histrionic? I can't judge anymore. Why can't I get a handle on the pain? He seems to be getting stronger as the shunning goes on. While it keeps reducing me.

I feel desperate to live with someone who does not care i am in pain. Even if that person would be a stranger and think that I caused all my own pain would not that stranger care more than this? When people who cut themselves, they obviously caused that harm, but we all still know that it is because of other deeper hurts they try to escape.
Even if he really thought that the whole problem was mine because I could not let go of the past he has to know that I have deep pain. Why is there no empathy for his wife?
Is it really just so that he can absolve himself of any guilt or bad feeling for himself? He will sacrifice all of me for that release for himself?

I am keeping appt with lawyer, keeping appt with MC.
Feeling destroyed. I miss having someone to love and someone love me, a man. I miss sex with someone I love who loves me. I feel so isolated. Even with people.

I'm still somewhat of a novice here-- my DDay was less than a year ago... but it is VERY common for a WS to rage at you and show no empathy after discovery and the realization that they no longer have all of the power.

Sometimes we talk about it here as the WS having "dead eyes." Many of us have described being curled up on the floor, sobbing, in pain... with the WS towering over us, watching us emotionless and continuing to hurl insults. It's cruel and indescribable. It's crazymaking.

So what you are feeling is COMPLETELY normal.

And his crap about controlling you, "reigning down" on you... it's because he knows he's losing control. When you leave him and D him, his ride is over. He has to face who he is. He will have the legal system put him in his place.

So let it. Don't let him bully you. He is going to try to intimidate you to he doesn't have to face consequences. He's going to blame you so that he doesn't have to look at himself. He will put himself in the center of his own universe and step over you in order to validate his selfish, ignorant, immature, disgusting behavior. If he can blame you, he doesn't have to be at fault. Don't let him.

See your L and take the good advice you've received here. If you are wounded by this and struggling, know that many of us have been there and we've seen through it and you can, too. If you feel like you can't live this nightmare and it's too much, look deep inside yourself for the strong you that existed before you met and began to be abused by this jerk and let her take the wheel. There is a saying of Winston Churchill's: "If you're going through hell, keep going." Keep going because the only way you'll find peace is to leave this man and regain a life that you live for YOU.

((hugs))

Where is the great self respect and fortitude and courage supposed to come from?

I feel damaged, too. Like a person with PTSD. It's really hard to get out of bed and function on a daily basis. I understand. I know that you can find the strength and the courage to move on with your life, mainlyinpain. But it will only happen when you get rid of this looser who is bringing you down. The fact that you survived with this man for so long speaks volumes about your strength. Don't doubt it ever again. You will have your self respect back as soon as you dump this guy.

I've been telling myself that I have to sell my big house and probably go bankrupt. I will have no money at all. I'm a real estate agent with no steady income. That is a scary place to be, but it is preferable to where I am now. I'm here for you. Good luck on Tuesday.

I do not want this person as an opponent of mine in any way.

Too late. He already made you opponents when he decided to cheat and rugsweep. You are just now catching up that this dynamic has existed for a while.

What you don't want is this person as a spouse.

Please get a safety plan as others have advised. Keep that attorney appointment. You CAN file for exclusive use of the home and mention his threats to the attorney.

Please don't think staying will change his attitude. This will happen no matter when you decide to make changes that empower yourself. The reason for the threat is that he sees you getting stronger and he sees himself losing control over you. This is not going to be better later on down the road.

Stick to your guns-don't be intimidated. But be careful. I'd start wearing a VAR when he's around and MAKE that safety plan.

that I am weaker than other people, or so damaged by all the betrayals

You've been abused and are just starting to realize that.

I've not been abused and when I read that he threatened you I got very angry inside. Seething angry. It made me want to stand up to him and knock his lights out.

It intimidated you because you've been taught that you can't do anything to help yourself. That's what his abuse taught you. You have to understand where those feelings come from and be compassionate with yourself as you re learn reality.

You can do this. You deserve to be treated with love and respect from your spouse. You deserve to move on without him if he won't provide those things for you.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 4:36 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]

MIP, you really aren't weak. You have much more strength than you know or are giving yourself credit for.

Your WH sounds emotionally abusive.....and it doesn't seem to be a *recent* development, so there has been a lot of emotional damage done to you (even without counting the damage from the betrayal) and it usually takes a while to sift through it, process it, and deal with it....and then even more time to remove the abuse from your life--by leaving or having a spouse who recognizes it and deals with it on his/her end.

And I have to admit that I did that 'poke the bear' thing for a long, long time. (psa--poking the bear is a really bad idea if your spouse is physically abusive). I didn't see it as poking him to get any type of attention from him....I did it to reclaim my *voice*. Over the years I had turned into a "yes dear" person and if I ever had any type of concern that I wanted to get off my chest, I would spend a long time trying to figure out *how* to bring it up to him so that he wouldn't go (verbally) bat-shit crazy on me. But that's a de-valuing kinda way to live, isn't it? So I started just *letting* my feelings-flag fly and telling him exactly what was on my mind. If I thought he was being an abusive asshole, I told him: "you're being an abusive asshole." I'm not sure that my *method* was all that great because abusers will generally *ramp up the abuse* when the abused person starts fighting back -- and that is exactly what happened in my case.

Anyway, it stayed pretty awful until I didn't have to be in his physical presence anymore. Dealing with an abusive person is soul-crushing and I think it will be so helpful for you when you can finally get some *space* away from him and not be living in the Hostile Hotel environment.

Your WH seems to feel *all-powerful*.....the 'shunning' of you, the haughty 'you can't make me' words he hurls at you. The guy needs to *learn* that he is 'just' a person -- that you have just as much *say* as he does -- and that a court-order trumps his grandiose ideas of *how* it's gonna work. Expect him to be pissed off about being knocked off of his self-built pedestal......

Hopefully the L that you are meeting with can give you some peace of mind about your future.

He seems to be getting stronger as the shunning goes on. While it keeps reducing me.

Ding ding ding. He shuns you BECAUSE it gives him the power and reduces you. That is why he does it and because you are conditioned it works the way he wants it to.

It is a hard, hard pattern to break out of. But knowing that it is purposeful on his part, that your feeling weak is what he wants, may help you see that this is not just 'how things are' but something that is being actively done to keep you down.

Hugs to you MIP. One day you'll be mainly in power

(((mainlyinpain)))

Thinking about you and hoping that you had a good meeting with the lawyer today.