"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

RollrCoasterRydr posted 3/9/2014 21:02 PM

Can finally breathe normally. It is amazing what a little time can do to calm one's nerves. Let me set up the scenario for you...
I have information about the A... suspect PA, but for sure EA. I have been looking for a little more proof before confrontation and I think I am ready. I have a DR to make sure words aren't twisted later on in case it becomes hostile.
This afternoon I saw my WH on an online RPG. The character name was a combination of his name and the OW's name. My heart started racing, my stomach got queasy and I had to race out of the room. I was about ready to do the confrontation right there. I figure it would be a bad idea.
I do want R if it possible. I have heard that the most important thing to do during confrontation is to get as much information as possible. I understand that means I must be thinking rationally and that if I am too aggressive, I may not get some of the answers I think I really need. So... I can use a little advice. I know that I can't predict what will happen, but if I can use the collective's experience, maybe I can at least be prepared. Are there any questions I should ask, anything I shouldn't say?

trynhard posted 3/9/2014 21:24 PM

suspect PA, but for sure EA

For me, I would not care if I knew 100% it is EA or PA. I would have all the proof I needed. Both are bad.

Here is a suggestion.... perhaps as you search for the EA and PA. Ignore your fear. No matter this should be good.

Apply some pressure.. Now the instructions.. Get yourself together and DO NOT get RATTLED.

This way, you are not accusing.. you are just making some statements about the marriage. Pay close attention to how he reacts.

In just casual conversation...

Very light pressure
"H, Lately, something just does not feel right with us, our marriage... Do you have anything you might want to tell me?"

If nothing.. The go about your day. Maybe do it again.

A few days later, add slight more pressure.. State your value.. I believe in our commitment and vows..

"H, You know, I place much value in our marriage, and the promise we made to each other. I was watching (whatever show.. go watch one infidelity is all over tv) and got to thinking, Do you believe it is wrong like that show?"

If nothing..
and you can think of other types of pressure like this, not accusing..

move to heavier pressure...
"Something in me is telling me something is very very wrong. I am not sure what it is.. Do you feel something?"

And the final.. "I just don't think believe all is good. That is what is in me right now. Oh well, I am sure I will discover what that is any day now."

He is not going to tell you. And if he has not cracked by now, then be prepared. Do yourself a favor. NO SEX until you have your proof.. make up a reason.. infection... and you should get ready to asked him to leave the house on you have the proof.. if he will. STAY STONG...

Do you see what I am saying? If he really has done no wrong, then you did not damage your marriage. Work HARD on your M at that point.

Keep searching for proof. Can you have someone following him for a few days?

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:32 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]

RollrCoasterRydr posted 3/9/2014 21:54 PM

trynhard - thanks for your advice. I know about the EA from emails. OW#1 is an ex-girlfriend that is living another state but did a cross country drive last summer. I have seen a picture of her in what looks a lot like our car and using a numbering sequence that is like our camera. The communications have been going on for at least five years now. OW#2 is also an ex from another state (different direction!), but I don't suspect PA from that one. It started more recently. WS is constantly on phone and laptop. No texts or phone calls except for one blocked call two months ago that lasted 7 minutes (it was during one of our detached time frames so it is very suspect). There have been some references to video chat. I guess I am taking the right path; I have already started some of the conversations you mentioned, but am getting no replies or am being brushed off.

scarednbroken posted 3/9/2014 22:04 PM

I agree with the above. Be non confrontational. I would also after several attempts, just say - "i know. Not what do we do??"

One more piece of advice - you say you want to R. Prepare yourself for the possibility that your WS does not - or is unwilling to do what is necessary for R. Be prepared to D. And be willing to accept that WS will choose D rather than R.

I'm hoping for you. Good luck. And many many hugs.

BtraydWife posted 3/9/2014 22:23 PM

Do you have a list of minimum requirements he must meet in order to have a chance at R? Post your list so we can be sure you aren't missing anything.

If so, do you also have a consequence that you are ready to follow through on if he won't do everything on the list? Let's hear that too.

You need those two things or a confrontation doesn't change much.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 10:24 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]

gonnabe2016 posted 3/9/2014 22:46 PM

Ask no questions upon confrontation. State everything as fact. You know what you know, and you don't need to get any additional information from him at this point. Your purpose is finding out whether he's ready to stop acting like a douche and begin acting like a husband who is committed to his wife.

You say: "I believe that marriage should be an unbroken circle between 2 people. There is NO room in a marriage for more than this. I know that you have broken this circle and that is not acceptable to me. Are you willing to re-commit to this marriage? Yes or no. If yes, then here is what needs to happen <list out your requirements>."

If your WH stutters or goes into *deny* mode, then you tell him that you are unwilling to be married to a man that you have to *share*.....and that he can either *man up* and be the husband that you deserve or --> there's the door.

Don't let him gaslight you by telling you that what you know isn't what is *real* or listen to any sudden *complaints* he has about you. Those things put you in *defense* mode.....and that is NOT where you want to be at confrontation time. What YOU are looking for is for him to re-commit to putting you first and getting hisdamnself back into the marriage.

If he's willing to do that, great. THEN you can dig in and get the answers you want. If he isn't...then he needs to take his shit and go.

momentintime posted 3/10/2014 01:13 AM

Don't fill the silence....let the pressure reside with him. Ask questions but don't interrupt during the answers. We often want to say so much, tell of our pain. Don't you are on a fact finding mission and if you are talking you can't hear the answers.

trynhard posted 3/10/2014 06:56 AM

I have already started some of the conversations you mentioned, but am getting no replies or am being brushed off.

OK.. It is possible your H is just "talking". But not sure without more info.. Take it slow right now.. It would not be a good for the M should HE not be doing any wrong, just occasional talk or so... How would you feel if all the sudden your H started to accuse you of something you did not do? Not good. If you are not doing anything wrong a person might "brush" you off. This is not a good behavior in a any M but it happens.

I know about the EA from emails.

Tell us about the emails..
Do they flirt?
Any mention of sex?
Any I love you's?
Any you mean so much to me's
Post the most damaging one...
Let us here read them and get our gut feelings.

Do not ignore your gut feelings. They are right and something is not right about your M. It can be fixed.. You might need to conflict because NOBODY should be emailing an old GF. He has crossed a boundary. But conflict really needs to be the right way.. Most folks conflict in such an ugly way.. There are good ways to go about it that mean business..

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:08 AM, March 10th (Monday)]

slide095 posted 3/10/2014 07:48 AM

Did you just see the emails, or do you have printouts/screenshots?

Did he leave it open or did you use a keylogger due to suspicion?

Good luck!

RollrCoasterRydr posted 3/10/2014 08:04 AM

Do you have a list of minimum requirements he must meet in order to have a chance at R? Post your list so we can be sure you aren't missing anything.

I do, but I am a little confused here because I don't know how to articulate clearly how I feel about R. There are things I love about my H. When I feel loved by him, I feel like can do anything or be anything. But when he is being detached, my first thought that is that there is a problem with us. And before I found out about the A, I assumed it was because I can be socially inept (I'm perfectly fine in the professional world, or in church circles, but if I relax and try to be myself, I say things that people don't "get") and that I was just making it about me and being paranoid.
When he is being detached, I don't want R. I want to break free and go back to being the strong, independent woman I was before this M.
That being said, I want to see the change that I see others on this board who are experiencing R.
I want complete transparency.
I want him to be in IC - and I want him to initiate it
I want access to passwords and no questions if I ask for the phone or to see what he is typing on his keyboard.
I want to see his bank accounts and get passwords so I can see history.

So here is a question. I realize that he is probably going to be blindsided. He may suspect I know, but he is probably in denial. I have a letter that I wrote to read to him so I can say what I need to say and not have the emotion make me mess it up. The letter is as non confrontational as is possible. I say that I know about the current A and I am aware there are others. I tell him that I want him to supply me with all the facts and that if he leaves anything out I will doubt his honesty and his honesty is going to play a large factor if we are going to try for a future together.
So, I was thinking this first conversation was going to be a fact finding mission.
So, let me lay it out and see where this goes.
He could be silent and say nothing in which case I lay out my conditions of R
He could give me some information, leaving out things I am aware of - then I can say - there's more, I have proof, keep going. If he doesn't I give my conditions for R
He could give me lots of information and it verifies what I know - then I give my conditions for R
He gives me more information than I have and I discover it confirms PA and it's worse than I imagined at which point I might not want R
So, in summary, it will go from fact finding to terms of R within the same conversation.
I think it is safe to say that as soon as my terms are laid out, he will become defensive and probably internally hostile and will probably not want R on my terms.
I think I will tell him to write down all his email accounts and passwords and facebook profiles and bank accounts. If he leaves any out, I will know he isn't ready. But here's a question. I can see the possibility that won't want to during this confrontation, but after thinking about it may want to. At that point, when he brings me the information, I won't know if he has just set up new accounts, or if he is really sincere. I guess it's one of those things I just have no control over.

MammaMia posted 3/10/2014 08:11 AM

If you have a VAR by all means USE it!!!! You can go back and listen to what he has to say when you are a lot calmer. Do NOT tell him you are using a Voice Activated Recorder. I wish I had done that when I confronted and when I asked him questions...

RollrCoasterRydr posted 3/10/2014 08:20 AM

As to the consequences of not following my conditions... Wow, I am not even sure what will happen after this first discussion. We are pros at living as roommates. I am pretty sure that he will be extremely sad. He will feel hopeless and helpless. He will initially beat himself up for making a stupid choice, but then he will feel victimized. And then he'll speak with the OW and maybe a few friends who will tell him how unreasonable I am being.
I am offering him the opportunity to fly free to be with the OW. However, it isn't practical because she lives so far away and he would never leave our teenage DS. Although one never knows. We have a guest room and I wouldn't mind if one of us slept there. What will we tell our son? If we R, the kids don't need to know the details. But I don't want to be the victim here and I don't know how I won't end up being the bad guy without saying something.
I thought about saying that "your dad isn't sure he loves me anymore and we need time to work it out."
If I get complete and total admission and remorse on this conversation, is it unreasonable that we can pretend to the family that everything is all right? Or should I just go to the "Dad is sleeping in the guest room, we have some things to work out" stage no matter what?

RollrCoasterRydr posted 3/10/2014 08:29 AM

But I don't want to be the victim here

What I meant to say was that I am not at fault, but my kids know that I believe marriage is forever except for a few things. I picture my son (who already has anger issues) blaming me for our new circumstances. My H has already told him that I am controlling, I hold the moneybags so if we don't have something it's my choice, and that I never admit to being wrong and that I don't listen to anything anyone has to say.
The only thing I know to do in this situation is to tell my H, we need to sit with the kids together, he needs to tell them that he isn't sure about being in the M. If he doesn't do that, I can pull out the proof I have... I don't think he would want that at all.
Sigh.

hopefulmother posted 3/10/2014 09:38 AM

DO NOT CRY or act emotional in front of him. Act cold. Do not promise anything. Don't let him know your resources. State the fact, you know he has been having an A. Then lay down the law. He most likely will deny. Tell him you have proof.

If he doesn't give you what you want. 180. I suggest separation to really scare the shit out of him.

trynhard posted 3/10/2014 09:50 AM

Wow, I am not even sure what will happen after this first discussion.

Your mind is taking you to the worst... and is racing.. It's natural because you are in shock.. just slow down some right now..

Are you sure he is in an EA?
If that is all, then I do think you can behave in ways to get your M back. Neither an PA nor a EA is the end of the world. It is your choice though first.. and his reaction to your good values.. Does he want the M?

I am curious to know what was said in one of those emails? The worst one you confirmed it. I am sure you are right and know.

We are pros at living as roommates.

It can be fixed.

But when he is being detached,

it can be fixed based on what YOU do.

VAR is a tool to can be used to help you feel safe. If you find nothing, you feel safe. It is a choice not to trust, but sometimes you don't if his behaviors are not trusting and transparent. Also you can buy a computer tracker. Do your kids use the computer too? You want to protect them if it gets found. It can be hidden. You can also say things and behave in ways to open him up. It might take some learning and skill.

he isn't sure about being in the M.

Did he say it to you or did you read it?

If he said it, then perhaps you can conflict him about that.. It's a values. I don't love someone who chooses not to love me.
Me, That is said to me, then I am sure my spouse won't be married to me. I make it happen. Period. I just go get a Lawyer and move toward peace... It is an attitude. He might wake up and cling to your strength, or he might run and hide.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:14 AM, March 10th (Monday)]

ReunitePangea posted 3/10/2014 10:06 AM

Rollr - I am sorry you are here.

The way I did my confrontation was that I gathered as much evidence that I could in about a weeks time. I then proceeded to type my WW an email indicating that I knew, presented much of my evidence (not all though), expressed that I was willing to work with her to get through this IF she came clean and met my expectations. I briefly outlined my expectations. I waited for the kids to be put to bed for the night and told my WW I was going to leave the house for a bit, send her an email and she could contact me when she was ready to discuss it. When we did discuss it later that night, it was very emotional for both of us but I tried my best to keep it without anger filled confrontation. You likely will be angry if you are not already later but when you are in fact gathering mode it might be best to focus on using whatever techniques you know will work to get the most truth possible.

I did it that way so that I had the opportunity to get all of my points out. That method worked for me - I got a quick confession. Think about how much evidence that you know that you want to give away - if he comes clean, some of this evidence can be used to tell if you are getting the truth.

trynhard posted 3/10/2014 10:29 AM

I have the same thought like ReunitePangea.

When conflicting.. addressing the EA... some thoughts about keeping your own values.

Here is a suggestions. Make up your mind, you want the M first. But it does have conditions.

"Husband, First, I have these emails." Show him. Let him respond. Listen careful. try your best to not get rattled. No more facts are really needed. I should be a Yes or no.. and that is the first start.. is all you need.

Deny? You say, OK, If I treated you this way, you would not like it, I don't like it. I have a value, either you choose to love your spouse, or not. Your answer says it all. This is a NO.

He throw it back on you.. His answer is a NO.

Then go in peace.

If he admits, Then asked him if he still wants the M. Only a 100% yes.. all other decisions take them as a no. You move on and go in peace. You waste time in limbo. Limbo = misery.

It does not matter how you feel right now. This is about living up to your standards, your worthiness. You are worthy for more that what you are getting.

If a 100% yes.. Then tell him you will change and work harder at the M. Then do it. Read and learn to change and be different. One part of it is to never accept any "disconnect" behaviors from you man.. And yes, everything is going to be far more open in every way. That is a good value you both should have.. all those things you already have in your mind. Tell him it is his choice to decide, not yours. He says no, then you go on in peace.

You don't even need to know he has some PA right now.. both a EA and PA are wrong.

He is going to react to you in a way that will be to come closer to you.. or hide, run, end it.

And yes, it will hurt. But in time, that hurt does go away.

strength and courage are good values that protect us and keep us attractive. And at times like these we are tested. Stand proud you have it.. keep it no matter what feeling you have.. be that kind of woman always.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:41 AM, March 10th (Monday)]

BtraydWife posted 3/10/2014 11:33 AM

I don't like that you want this to be a fact finding mission. It's likely you will be disappointed and not get that at all.

I also don't like the send an email then leave the house. That's serious conflict avoiding and that's what has gotten you both to this place. It's time for some accountability.

Dismiss the comments that he might just be talking to her. That's minimizing. You know what you saw, an EA is an affair and it does not need to be more to be inappropriate.

A few more requirements should be him writing a detailed timeline. This is when he should be forthcoming with any info you don't know-not during confrontation.

Also a STD test for the both of you, and you see/hear or get his results directly from the DR. This is non negotiable and you don't have sex with him until this happens. DONT let him convince you this isn't necessary. He has lied to you and cheated, he should not be trusted to make decisions for you regarding your health. Don't fall into the "he'd never do that" trap. He has proven already capable of things you believed he'd never do.

You need a consequence and it needs to be that he moves out, immediately. Anything less than that and he will have no reason to be truthful to you. Repeat this until it really sinks in. If you half ass this in anyway he will half ass his commitment to you. Too many BSs cave and what they end up with is exactly what you have now. This confrontation is about enacting a change.

He doesn't want to live with her so you saying he can go doesn't actually offer him anything. He wants to live with you and keep her.

Repeat this one too. People don't change until staying the same is harder than changing. You have to make him staying the same-terribly difficult and painful for him.

One more point. This is not him picking between you and this other woman. This is between him facing his issues or continuing to run from them. The need to deny there is a problem is very strong for a WS. She's not the problem, your WH is. She can and will be replaced if he doesn't get his issues addressed.

You need to wait to confront until you can follow through with kicking him out. This is the foundation of the confrontation and it's useless without follow through.