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User Topic: t/j sadjacey's post, rachelc response
reallysad2012
♀ 37658
Member # 37658
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

apologies if I am doing this wrong with the t/j...I couldn't find title of original post after I started to post this new thread

the thing is, and answering as a former WW, a wayward who has done their work shouldn't get down talking about what they did with their BS. If they are, that means shame is still attached to them and that's the part that's not healthy

rachelc said this in another thread and it jumped out at me because I feel this is a stumbling block in R for me and H. I have pointed out to my H that he should look into finding his own acceptance for his actions and that he needs to find his own happiness but he insists he will never forgive himself and he won't be happy until I am happy. I have pointed out that that is a lot of pressure on me.

I know I can do nothing about how he handles things so I am trying to focus on the things I do have control over, which is me.

Things aren't bad between us. They are actually quite good. So I think if we continue this way, he will eventually get to where he needs to be. The WSs need time just like the BSs. Just wondering if anyone else is having this issue and I am hoping some WSs can shed some light on whether or not this sounds like typical issues WSs go through.


me BS
him WH
his A was in 2001, DDay confession 9/5/2012

Posts: 105 | Registered: Nov 2012
Jovie
♀ 41956
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a post not too long ago about forgiveness in the wayward forum, and in 2 pages of responses, nearly every wayward that answered said that they don't think they will ever be able to forgive themselves.

I've been talking about this a lot in IC and MC and agree that you do need to come to some kind of "acceptance" where you can sort of talk freely, without shame, about the mistakes you made. And it has been stressed to me that I need to find this "forgiveness" with or without BH's forgiveness. For me, it just seems like a fine line moving from feeling remorseful to feeling... like you can move on with life.

I'm not that far out, but this seems like an insurmountable task to me.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jan 2014
HUFI-PUFI
♂ 25460
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reallysad2012 - I have pointed out to my H that he should look into finding his own acceptance for his actions and that he needs to find his own happiness but he insists he will never forgive himself and he won't be happy until I am happy ... Just wondering if anyone else is having this issue and I am hoping some WSs can shed some light on whether or not this sounds like typical issues WSs go through.

Jovie is correct in his reply. The majority of WS's in his thread (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=524831&HL=41956) did talk about not letting themselves forgive themselves. And after 6 years in the Wayward forum, I have seen this come up time after time.

obliquestrat had asked in R forum about a standard healing timeline and while I know the healing process for the WS is not linear, there are stages and it seems to me that regret/guilt and remorse/shame stages are very common pairings for many of us.

Quite often that feeling happens as a result of feeling shame and guilt over his actions and the consequences. Its a form of self-punishment. In the early days, its quite understandable but if the WS wallows in this guilt and shame for too long, then he risks in becoming shame bound and that's very unhealthy.

The following threads talk about the shame spiral and about forgiveness and acceptance.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=525466

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=524937

I would encourage you to continue talking to your WS on the issue of acceptance and how finding that within himself can be the stepping stone to self-forgiveness.

HUFI


Don’t listen to your head, it’s easily confused. Don’t listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3285 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been talking about this a lot in IC and MC and agree that you do need to come to some kind of "acceptance" where you can sort of talk freely, without shame, about the mistakes you made.

While I can't pinpoint the moment this happened for my H, I can remember the "before" and the "after" and how much easier it was for me to work through things in a healthy way when he could acknowledge his actions without self-flagellation.

I sometimes think that people say "I will never forgive myself" as a way of proving that they are still invested in healing. But I think it is much more difficult to accept your actions for what they were and, for me anyway, sent a message that my H had really changed.

That being said, it is a process, and while it is worthwhile work, I wouldn't push it any more than I would push a BS to forgive too quickly.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1768 | Registered: Nov 2010
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it is a process, and while it is worthwhile work, I

that is for sure! When you think about it, the wayward staying in this shame position, heck even threatening suicide but more of what we see here - being defensive when it's talked about - do they REALIZE that at this point its still all about them?



his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5535 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you think about it, the wayward staying in this shame position, heck even threatening suicide but more of what we see here - being defensive when it's talked about - do they REALIZE that at this point its still all about them?

No, and it's what makes them an unsafe partner. But as I am learning, it is not easy to look shame in the face and deal with it. It is hard, painful work even if you start it from a relatively good place. I have a lot of respect for people who undertake it when their world is crashing down around them, like my H did, and as I have seen lots of WS/BS do in my time here.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1768 | Registered: Nov 2010
Skan
♀ 35812
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that my FWH has not forgiven himself. He has come to acceptance about his decisions and actions. And he is seeking forgiveness from himself for himself. I can see the progress from being so paralyzed by shame that he wouldn't standup for himself even when he needed to, and was sunk in self-pity so much that he sorta went belly-up whenever things got heated. I think that it was, in many ways, this shame that led to his sneaking behaviors and lies that almost separated us. Now, that I believe that he bounced hard on the bottom several times, I see a different person emerging. He's opener. He's willing to stand his ground and start asking for what he needs and willing to stand up to me when he things that I'm being unfair. There is a lightness around him that once wasn't there.

I have forgiven him. He has not forgiven himself, but he is trying to seek that. I honestly hope that he finds that forgiveness someday. Neither of us, however, will ever forget. And I think that that is key. To never forget what was, when our intimacy and bonds were loosened.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 5101 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's willing to stand his ground and start asking for what he needs and willing to stand up to me when he things that I'm being unfair. There is a lightness around him that once wasn't there.
I have forgiven him. He has not forgiven himself, but he is trying to seek that. I honestly hope that he finds that forgiveness someday.

this is great! He must be doing some hard introspective work!


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5535 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
reallysad2012
♀ 37658
Member # 37658
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for the responses. When I posted I was feeling some fear that H would not be able to forgive himself or accept what he has done. I do think there is a difference between forgiveness and acceptance, so if he can reach acceptance but not forgiveness, that would be okay with me. I just don't want to see self-hatred and I want him to believe he deserves happiness. He keeps saying he doesn't. I keep trying to tell him I can't be happy with a shell of a man who is just going through the motions of life. Most of the time he isn't like that and he does engage in life, but sometimes there is a slip backwards and that is so scary for me. For my healing, I have begun to focus so much more on the present, which is helping him, I think.


me BS
him WH
his A was in 2001, DDay confession 9/5/2012

Posts: 105 | Registered: Nov 2012
Topic Posts: 9

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