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Do the lies and deceit ever stop?

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OathswornDad posted 3/20/2014 18:55 PM

It'll be two years in August since she left. It's been a hellish roller coaster ride. I buried my brother a year ago a week after losing my job. I worked manual labor for half my pay and no benefits until I was rear ended in January, herniating multiple discs in my back and making me unable to work for the time being. (Up until this point I thought our co-parenting relationship had been going well. Very little fighting. Helping each other out. Etc.)
Shortly after that, I'm driving with my kids when my daughter starts singing silly little songs and mentions the name of my ex-wife's BF, who is supposedly in Alabama.
I call her up and ask her. She lies.
Later on she calls and wants to meet to talk. She admits her lying and her deceit and informs me that her BF, the one she left me for (who turned out to be catfishing her, he ended up being very fat IRL) is staying with her. "Visiting" she says. I'm upset, but it keep my temper pretty much in check.
I'm okay with the fact that she's gone. I've got a sort of relationship going on and pursuing others, trying to move on with my life and deal with the shitstorm that has been the past year or so.
I tell her I want to meet him. I'll feel better once I can at least look in the eyes of the guy who betrayed me and helped to wreck my life, if he's going to be around my kids. There's not much I can do about it but I hate being lied to and kept things hidden from.
He refuses. She refuses to talk much more about it and we argue.

Things settle down some. I move on and try to let it go and just focus on being the best dad I can.
So today I drop off my cousins and have the kids with me. I'm right by her house picking up prescriptions and she's getting off so I just text her that I'll drop them off there.

Guess what greets my eyes when I pull in her driveway.
His car. I let out a sigh and keep my composure. I go to get my kids out. My ex is not home yet.
I didn't lose my temper. My daughter had a blowout and I was out of wipes and the sonofabitch wouldn't even open the door and give me some. I had to wet some napkins with a hose and change my 3 yo in the driveway.

She gets there, asks me for their things, and pretty much blows me off. I ask her if there is something she wants to tell me. She acts like it's none of my business. I tell her I at least want to meet the guy, to look him in the eyes. She goes to ask him and he says no, apparently. Coward is hiding inside.

She apparently thinks nothing of lying to me about this and hiding it from me.

I'm tired of the bombshells. I just want it all out in the open.

What the hell do I do?

Nature_Girl posted 3/20/2014 19:00 PM

I'm sorry, man. There's nothing you can do, though. She's not obligated to introduce you, he's not obligated to meet you, and you have zero control over any other person but yourself. This is yet another enormous bite from the shit sandwich that is infidelity that you have to chew & swallow.

PurpleRose posted 3/20/2014 19:23 PM

What do you do?

You stop expecting her to tell you about her life. You stop expecting her to act like a friend. You stop expecting that you are entitled to meet her friends.

You have to let all that go. It is irritating as all hell, but there is nothing you can do about it.


OathswornDad posted 3/20/2014 19:34 PM

It just feels like surrender. As if she can do whatever she wants when she has the kids and have whoever she wants shacking up with her when they are there and I'm the bad guy for even balking when I catch her in yet another lie.

Sigh. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. This co-parenting thing has me in fits. I don't want my kids growing up thinking it's okay to lie to me. It (and other experiences) have made me so distrustful of women.

Nature_Girl posted 3/20/2014 19:40 PM

It feels like surrender because it is surrender. You really have no choice. Well, you do have a choice. You can continue to deny reality and try to force her to act in certain ways and force her to meet your expectations, OR, you can accept that she's an autonomous being you do not control.

Yes, she can do whatever she wants with whoever she wants when she has the kids. Shit? Meet bread. Here's your sandwich.

Yes, she'll teach your kids to lie to you. Shit? Meet bread. Here's another sandwich.

This is your reality. You must adapt. You must.

OathswornDad posted 3/20/2014 20:12 PM

How do I combat such a reality? I'm not just going to roll over and let her corrupt my kids into the same fucked up reality she has. There has to be some way to fix at least my half so they have some sort of chance.
Or maybe a woman's best chance is to lie to a man and hope he's too stupid to find out.

Kajem posted 3/20/2014 20:22 PM

The only thing you can do is teach your kids that lying to you is not a good idea. You do that by being a pillar of trust to them. When they slip you use that moment to teach them why they shouldn't lie to anyone, especially you.

What goes on in her house is she's teaching the kids how to treat her. You will teach your kids how to treat you, sow the seeds of trust. Let her sow the seeds of distrust.

It sucks, but you really can't control her.

My XH is like your XW, I've been divorced almost 11 years, his (and ow) lies are still ongoing. The difference time makes is my kids (19,21,23) all see them for the liars they are.

It does get better, once the truth is out in the open and seen by everyone. My XH and NW still stand by their lies in the face of truth, like a 3yo denying they stole a cookie while holding the cookie.


[This message edited by Kajem at 8:31 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]

PurpleRose posted 3/20/2014 20:25 PM

Here is how you stop catching her in lies...

Stop asking her questions.

It's pretty simple, actually. When you have zero expectations, you won't be let down when she doesn't meet those expectations. If you are not asking her personal questions, she won't feel the need to lie to you ( because it really is not your business what she is doing anymore).

The absolute paradox here is that you have to trust the person who completely violated your trust. Trust that she will take care of your kids, trust that she will protect them.

It sure is ridiculous, I know. But there is nothing you can do about it.

Thefly559 posted 3/20/2014 22:05 PM

brother you have gotten some great advice here. I am in the same boat as you. I try to just stay constant, instill good values, show my children the difference between lies and truth. I am learning to remove my kids from my brain when they are with her. it is so dam hard and I am sorry , but control the one person you can , the rest will fall into place all the best

Nature_Girl posted 3/20/2014 23:00 PM

You do not have the right, either moral or legal, to control your ex and what she does. So yes, you will just roll over & let her do whatever she's gonna do. Should she teach the kids to lie to you? Of course not. Can you do a damn thing about it? No, you can't. Should she at least give you the name of the man who is around your children? Yes, absolutely. Is she obligated to? No, not unless it's in your divorce decree, and even if it is, good luck enforcing it.

I can tell you are really hurting and this is tearing at you. I am so very sorry. All I can say is that you're in good company here. We've all had to learn to tolerate what is intolerable.

Caretaker1 posted 3/20/2014 23:15 PM

I am so sorry about your brother , your job loss and health issues and the divorce. You have had way too many tragic things happen in a short period of time.
I am bracing myself for something similar. It sounds like she settled for a guy that isn't in good shape and you are probably a better catch. This is what they want, let them have it. Visiting? Sounds like they are living together. You are divorced, my Stbx is doing stuff like this with the kids while divorcing. I don't ask anymore, however, the kids always reveal. I know my value system is completely different than hers and I would not shack up even if engaged. Why aren't they feeling wounded and what is right and wrong? Does this guy have his own kids?

[This message edited by Caretaker1 at 11:17 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]

OathswornDad posted 3/20/2014 23:18 PM

I suppose I just have to nut up and swallow the shitstorm that is divorce. As much as it eats at me I have to accept that I have lost. Being the Better man and taking the high road has got me diddly squat.

quedagh posted 3/20/2014 23:24 PM

No, sir, sadly it does not!

I do not speak to my exww since the last crazy physical attack and she still lies- in texts, in emails, to anyone who listens, and to my poor littles.

I used to text, "just because you say it doesn't make it true."

Now I just text... nothing. If a response is necessary it is "sure" or "no"

If I have to give information or make a request it is as brief as possible.

My poor littles have figured it out- and they just assume their mother is lying to them if she is speaking to them. This makes me sad. But also makes me glad they can detect deceit.

They learned this because of amazing insight inducing statements from their mother like, "Yes, we have a labradoodle named Lassie." When the dog in question is a known poodle that she bought from a poodle breeder with papers, a family tree, and a very long name that only a breeder with name-drop marketing needs would use. So they ask me, "Dad, is Lassie a poodle or a labradoodle? Because I always thought she was a poodle." and dad says, "She is a poodle, Dozer (the other dog) is a labradoodle. They don't even look alike. Why do you ask?" She can't even tell the truth about the kid's dogs. Yikes.

As for the jerk around your kids- that one is horrible and it sucks. There is no easy answer for that. I am sorry. ugh.

I simply showed up at the guys house and knocked on his door to introduce myself. He couldn't really flee or avoid me at that point. I was brief and direct- they don't need a dad, you are a known drunk- don't drive them when you are drunk, you will be gone in a few years so please don't try to bond with them-they have suffered enough emotional hits.

He married exww a few months later

Nature_Girl posted 3/20/2014 23:27 PM

If you have the money, you should hire a PI to find out who this guy is. Anyone shifty enough to be a catfisher (and you know what? I think my ex was a catfisher) is not a good person.

If I had the money I'd hire a PI to find out who the men are my ex lives with and exposes my kids to. One of those men has taken an unhealthy interest in my kids.

I really do understand where you're coming from. I just want you to understand you can't do jack about what you're describing. Vent here, we all totally know what you're talking about.

quedagh posted 3/20/2014 23:38 PM

Catfisher! Catfisher! Catfisher!

You should point at him and scream that whenever you see him through a window or, like in this case, standing inside the house watching you be an amazing parent. Sort of like Invasion of the bodysnatchers.


Nature_Girl posted 3/20/2014 23:50 PM

BTW, get the book "Divorce Poison". It's about parental alienation and how to counter it. It might help you! Also, "Joint Custody with a Jerk" is another good book that will help you.

Caretaker1 posted 3/21/2014 00:06 AM

OK I'm lost....Catfisher....what is that? Is that those people on TV who put there arms in fishes mouths in muddy lakes?

A PI will cost thousands. You are divorced. Do you really feel he's a threat? If so, then start with a simple background check you can order online. Do you know his full name? Find out if he has a criminal record or driving infractions. is he divorced, does he have kids? If he does, then proceed accordingly.

OathswornDad posted 3/21/2014 01:54 AM

What really concerns me (or maybe it doesn'tt. Maybe I'm just jealous) is that my ex was abused as a teenager by someone her mother basically allowed to become her abuser.
My XW's mother left her (albeit abusive and alcoholic) husband when my XW was very young. She lived in foster homes for a while. Her mom was unstable. When she was 12-13 she basically involved with an older neighbor that molested her. The sicko even lived with them for a while. From 12-25, my XW was essentially his prisoner. He never allowed her to learn how to drive or any of the other things that are normal in development. It wasn't until he started molesting another 12yo girl that my XW finally had the courage to turn him in (at great risk to herself) and put him away.

At that point, I entered the picture. My XW was staying with my aunt and we basically hooked up. She was trying to get her old apt. cleared out and I stepped in as a guy with a car who was willing to help her out. Classic damsel in distress syndrome. When she moved into her own place we started seriously seeing each other and basically moved in together. It was fantastic at the moment. Sex was great, my friends (for the most part) liked her, she converted to Catholicism (this was influenced by her staying with a heavily Catholic couple when she was trying to escape her ex.) which made my family happy.
I was the white knight and she was my damsel.

After (or really before and I was just too caught up in it to notice) we got married after 2 years and 1 week together, things started to go downhill. I had to get a job in a fab shop in order to provide for my new family. After a year of that I ended up with a great plant job with awesome benefits. We had a daughter. I worked shift work. Nights took me away, and my schedule wasn't exactly conducive to normal family life. I started to drink too much. Not getting drunk, just staying in a haze when I was off. I'd go to my man cave and piddle.
Honestly, I was miserable, but I was consigned to my misery. I was married after all.
I'd escape into some chat forums to pass the time. I "met" a guy who seemed almost a kindred spirit. We'd chat about higher level thinking stuff. We really had a lot in common.
I'd talk about my then wife, and then she'd join in on the discussion at times. After a while, we'd chat with each other. Then they started chatting. I was trusting.
Then he stopped talking to me. I asked her and she said he wasn't talking to her either. This was when she was 1 month pregnant with my son.

I escaped my sexless marriage online and in a bottle and in my hobbies.
I found out a month after my son was born that she was having (at the time) an online affair, and had been for quite a while. She left, didn't want to try to salvage it. Didn't want anything. Turns out the pictures of him he sent her weren't him. Apparently he's a big fat guy. 23 years old. College student. Living with his parents.

I know his full name. I know his address. If I wanted to do something, I could have.
And here I am now.

Jennifer99 posted 3/21/2014 08:48 AM

I REALLY understand how you feel.

I have to constantly reframe my EXPECTATIONS. I hope it becomes natural soon. Its a lot of work.

I work on changing how I think about things while making sure that ds has what he needs to be safe, secure, and independent without ME. Its a good thing anyway.

quedagh posted 3/21/2014 08:52 AM

Just keep your chin up- focus on the littles- it is a shitty haul.

As long as you are there for your littles, they will know it.

I understand the fear of a stranger around them. That one sucks and it still shadows over my head. Just guide your littles to be open and honest with you by respecting their thoughts and feelings- and they will tell you as soon as something goes awry- if it does. Sadly, that's all you can do.

The rollercoaster of feelings will be there a long time. Feel what you feel, acknowledge it is normal, and it will not last long.

Stay strong.

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