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scream posted 3/26/2014 07:12 AM

Coming off of PrayingforHopes' last post that got a lot of deserved attention. I wanna ask BSs if they have second thoughts about the way they did things after Dday? And during R? My wife has said she wonders if she made R to easy for me...she never seperated or cut me off emotionaly or physically. We have worked hard to be where we are now. But I know she wonders if we would be further along or in a different place had she acted more like Prayings wife.

I told her that I don't know if I could have been like him. Right after Dday I was still to self absorbed. I may have made things worse. Not gotten the help I needed and shut down. So if you have second thoughts what would you have done? In retrospect do you think things would be better?

I love my wife. And I will always be sorry and never forget what I have done to her. But more than that I respect her for the woman she is. And her strength of character.

lilacs40 posted 3/26/2014 07:39 AM

I believe that I made R too easy the first time around and wonder if that's why we ended up with a second D-Day. I also think that is why I am having a hard time this time.

Last time WH did give me passwords but resented the fact that he had to. This time he won't give any. He showed very little remorse last time and I feel that this time he's showing even less.

I believe that had I demanded more we would have either divorced then or we would not have had a second D-Day (different women).

Of course I'm basing my opinion on having what is probably a not remorseful WH. If he showed even a bit of remorse perhaps my feelings would be different

Kelany posted 3/26/2014 07:41 AM

I feel a lot like your wife...

My wife has said she wonders if she made R to easy for me...she never seperated or cut me off emotionaly or physically.

Dday1 my husband was definitely still foggy, entitled, minimizing and rugsweeping.

We had a year of false R. He lied through his teeth. To me, our therapist and a psychologist who assessed him. He completely omitted 2 prior affairs, one was a LTA. He had another brief affair during false R, and pursued another which resulted in him being fired for sexual harassment. He continued with daily porn and compulsive masturbation despite very frequent sex with me.

DDay2 was so much more horrific. Even then it took 3 more months for full disclosure and 3 more for R.

What I wish I had done was kicked him out, demanded the truth my gut was screaming for, demanded a poly and him to leave his job before even considering R.

JanaGreen posted 3/26/2014 08:04 AM

I don't know. It's hard to say. I probably was too easy on him at first. It was hard to be hard on him because he was making himself so sick. I put my feelings on the back burner to take care of him (he had a drunk ONS and confessed).

Unfortunately he didn't do anything real to prevent crap behavior in the future and I ended up with another D-Day and going through absolute hell for 9 months. When I finally accepted that we were done and that I'd be fine without him (and probably better off) - THAT'S when he woke up.

I don't know what would have happened if I'd adopted that attitude after D-Day 1. I felt like he was about to die of stress overload, so I don't know that I could have. I did go through hell but we came through it and I am glad things worked out. I wouldn't have wished that on anyone, though.

I think it's impossible not to have second thoughts. It's such an extreme, impossible situation. Nobody really knows what to do and so we just muddle through and wing it.

AML04 posted 3/26/2014 08:16 AM

It's hard to say. I never wanted to push him away but I almost feel like he had no consequences because he never really thought he would lose me. He definitely regretted what he did and felt awful about it but he dragged his feet doing the hard work. I wish I had laid out my requirements for R and told him I wouldn't accept anything less.

At 10 mos today I think we're finally making progress but think we may have been further along if he actually was able to feel what he could have lost.

annb posted 3/26/2014 08:35 AM

Even though I was devastated, somehow I managed to put on my bitch boots shortly after D-Day. It scared the sh*t out of my WH, he knew I meant business, basically my way or the highway. Shock and Awe.

Even though he TT me to death, he went NC on D-Day and gave me access to everything. No game playing, no fence-sitting, he understood that if he didn't want to lose me, his three boys, AND his job (I was willing to go to HR), he had absolutely no time to be in the "fog." He began looking for a new job immediately even though OW worked 3,000 miles across the country. He had a great career with a company he had been with for 25 years, gone.

I am personally in the camp that feels a WS truly does not "get it" unless they begin to experience consequences and FEEL and SEE the trauma they have caused their spouses and family. That's why much advice in JFO from veterans like me is that you cannot "nice" your WS back into the marriage. A BS stands to suffer greater emotional torture while the WS takes time to become emotionally engaged.

scream posted 3/26/2014 09:15 AM

Thanks everybody. Lot to think about. Another you think having those consequences would have made empathy easier? I try to empathise. I don't think I do a really good job all the time. Walking in her that possible? Without having gone through it.

I had an LTA. I lied for the majority of my life and marriage. I shut down,shut out and basicly treated my wife as nothing. That is so much to make up for it will take the rest of her life. And that is all I want the chance to do. I have been doing my best to deserve that chance. We have our ups and downs. But atleast we have them together.

I feel empathy for WSs that don't have the oppertunity I have been given. I can walk in there shoes. And they hurt to wear.

Kelany posted 3/26/2014 09:26 AM

I'm not sure. My husband spent most of his life compartmentalizing and being detached due to foo issues. It's difficult for him to empathize, but he tries hard now. He's having to learn it.

I honestly don't think it would have helped too much as he shut down during that time. Was defensive and entitled. He hadn't yet learned to empathize, it was all talk. I just think I would have shocked him into reality sooner.

Hannah25 posted 3/26/2014 09:39 AM

I'm starting to worry that I wasn't tough enough. My WBF is definitely sorry, but I don't think he ever believed that I'd really leave. I hope it doesn't come back to bite me...

AFrayedKnot posted 3/26/2014 09:45 AM

No second thoughts here. I played it perfectly. By perfectly I mean honest. Honesty is the closest to perfection that a person can get.

When I was angry I screamed and yelled. When I was disgusted I expressed why and detached. When I was desperate I begged. When I was sad and depressed I cried. When I was determined I set the rules with consequences. When I was accepting and forgiving I expressed understanding. I let her see and feel every bit of confusion and contradiction that was going on in my head. I held nothing back. She saw the INSANITY she created. She saw what reality looked like.

Neverwudaguessed posted 3/26/2014 10:05 AM

I'm with Chico; I didn't kick my husband out because he was crying and falling apart over what he did to me AND what he did to himself and his life. He made NC call as soon as I found out although he had already ended it two weeks earlier. He was completely transparent, calls from work, texts, listens, cries, holds me through all of my crazy emotions, trigger responses, etc. He set up IC and MC immediately. Maybe I will regret not kicking him out or threatening to Divorce down the line; it has only been 6 months, but so far, we are working things out together and there is an intimacy created in that which was missing previously between us, but is also, I believe essential to healing.

alifeforesaken posted 3/26/2014 10:18 AM

I often feel I was too easy. I know he is broken, I was always the stronger one. I held back a little more than I should have, but mostly because I didn't want to make any hasty decisions, which I think led me to doing some things right, but not others.

My reaction to the A was out of character, not at all how I thought I'd react. I think the end game would have been the same for me. I think I took the path of least resistance for us, but that is not the path of least resistance for me. If that makes sense.

scream posted 3/26/2014 10:42 AM

Love all these responses...thank you for sharing. Am I wrong in assuming most BSs would rather a firm and detached stance toward their WS? I do realize everyone and every situation is different. Kind of a get out and get your shit together thing?

I think I may have become a basket case. Dropped further into a really bad place. Looking back not that I wouldn't have blamed her. I do often wonder why she still let's me stay. And I get scared she will wake up and decide its not worth it. Big scare...BSs talk about the other shoe dropping...that's it for me. "Hey I can and deserve better than him."

Neverwudaguessed posted 3/26/2014 10:57 AM

For me is is not Hey I can and deserve better than him." It is that I can get and deserve better than the treatment he had given. To see the huge changes he made since Dday through therapy will keep me from having second thoughts, as long as they continue...

craig2001 posted 3/26/2014 11:26 AM

I was far too patient and if I had to do it all over again, I would be much more direct in what I needed and expected. I would never have backed down on anything I said.

Being too patient led to TT and partial truths for too long of a time.

scream posted 3/26/2014 12:22 PM

Intresting. My wife can be extremly patient. And I try to give all she needs to heal. And at times life gets in the way. No matter what we may be going through our lives don't stop. Not an excuse but a hinderence some times.

Do any BSs think a trial seperation would have been the way to go? My wife said the other day that if not for the kids she would have packed my shit. I think I always knew that. Kids can and do play a role in R.

I know my wife thinks I have had it fairly easy compared to some. And in a lot of ways she is right. But I have not been easy on myself. I guess like her, I wonder what would have been.

Kelany posted 3/26/2014 12:27 PM

Our kids were a huge reason I didn't immediately kick him out. And I worried to much about his well-being. Which is ironic, given he didn't care about mine for 5 years.

somethingremorse posted 3/26/2014 13:26 PM

My BW has allowed me to stay, has worked through things with me, has shown me love and strength. I realize how lucky that I am. I should have just as easily been in PFH's shoes.

I admit that there are times that I think I'm getting off "too easy." Those are the times that I'm being a martyr, thinking that I have to be punished. For me, I do not think that those thoughts are valuable.

I know that being with my BW has greatly helped my growth. First, she is the person I can talk to the best. When something is bothering me, or I have a question about the way I see things, talking to BW is the best thing I can do for me. Next, I do see her pain and reactions to my actions. This is a clear mirror into how far I let myself fall. Without that, I would be greatly tempted to minimize the terrible things that I did. Finally, seeing BW and my kids and going through happy times reminds me of what is the most important thing in my life. I allowed myself not to think about them for a long time. I am completely certain that I would not have made the progress that I have without BW beside me.

Now it is a different question of whether BW would heal better if she was harder on me.

cdnmommy posted 3/26/2014 13:30 PM

I haven't read all of the replies but I will answer from my perspective.

I wish I had been tougher on my H after DDay1. I believed he was remorseful, thought he was hurting, and ignored my gut because I wanted to be as kind to him as possible. I didn't utilize SI because our MC told me that it wasn't a good idea, or I would have known that his behaviour was inconsistent with a remorseful WS. I should have stood up for myself. It's not that I was desperate to R, but I think I was desperate to believe my H and ignored his actions to my detriment.

I found my voice after DDay2, and was not at all keen to reconcile. I decided that I would wait and see, and understandably refused to commit until I witnessed some real changes. There are a hundred little things I would do-over if I could, but they are minor and I am happy with my "I choose me" approach.

Our reconciliation has been very successful and I believe we will make it, but I have reached a point where I feel that even if we don't, it has been worth it. If I had ended our M when the affair happened, I don't think our son would have the relationship with my H that he has now. My husband was very disengaged from our family, and I don't think he would have had any interest in 50/50 custody at that time nor would I have wanted that. He is an awesome dad and we have all benefitted from his being an involved father.

ReunitePangea posted 3/26/2014 14:18 PM

Overall I think I handled things as good as I could after DDay. I did the opposite of what is told to many BS on JFO and I did nice my way to R. R has been going well overall - still work to be done but at 1 1/2 years out we have made good progress.

I do feel on somethings, I should not have been as nice as I was. While I know this is not helpful at all - I wish I punished the OM somehow and that still bothers me today that he got off easy with crickets.

I think standard advise that is given to all BS on JFO that you can not nice your way back into the marriage is not as universal as it is made out to be. The individual situation needs to be evaluated to figure out what the best way to handle things is. My situation was that my WW has a very long LTA - it was as long as it was because neither one of them knew how to end their broken relationship. Me finding out was actual a relief in that it put an end to it once and for all. My definition of nice is that I handled things very calmly, rationalle but I did it by also being clear and decisive. I offered my WW R on DDay but did not leave my WW any wiggle room if she agreed. My demands and needs were met.

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