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My husband has known the OW for about 4 - 5 years.

At first she was just someone he saw around cleaning on the industrial site where our company is. he then started talking to her more and having a laugh etc and enjoying their conversations because she made him laugh and feel better!! (I didn't know this) Then he had over 12 months of thinking she was wonderful, his life, etc etc and having to be in constant contact with her both via phone and face to face, all day, every day.

when I found out, he apparantley was able to go completely cold turkey on the contact (I do not think there is any contact, and believe me I do check) and within a couple of weeks his attitude changed towards her, he no longer 'liked' her, could see that she has not been good for him, that she WAS partly to blame because she did not discourage him or help with his depression, that she used him and took delight in slipping little bits of what she was doing with him into her conversations with me, but of course I didn't know she was talking about my H

He appears to actively dislike her now.

So my question is this - is it possible to change your feelings toward someone so quickly. Or is it just words to try to make me feel better. I would love to hear if this happened to anyone elses partner.

Thanks

Often times, members here will admonish your partner for saying bad things about her, saying that is "blameshifting." Sometimes it could be a bit of that but yes I think it is very possible and desirable for a WS to take off the rose colored glasses and see that the OP manipulated them (and they allowed it to happen, unfortunately). All of us feel like fools when we give in to manipulation and I think the WS should too. Just because it is their own fault they gave in does not diminish the part the OP played.

As for answering your question, my H seemed to throw the whore under the bus immediately after D-day. While he didn't directly bring her up often, if ever, he said things that I knew meant he now understands "that kind of woman" and he seems to despise the types of women who try to capitalize on any vulnerability or weakness they learn of in the MM's personal life or marriage. In our case, the whore used his mother's and DD's death to her advantage.

He sees women he works with in action, looking for MM to be their KISA at work when they have so many personal sob stories, then planning for "innocent" outings with them after work and such. I can tell by how disgusted he is at seeing these things, that he does apply it to what happened in our situation. As for my H, he learned his lesson and now knows how to recognize and avoid those types of women.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 9:06 AM, March 26th (Wednesday)]

I always had that same question. My husband, the cheater, only knew her 6 months, but threw her under the bus quicker than a NY minute. I always found that hard to believe.

However, once the fog lifed, which occurred on d-day, he saw the girl for who she was. I've always said, he would have died if his son brought her home! And reading Bobbi_sue's response has made me think in another way. He very well could feel that way seeing how he was manipulated.

So the bottom line--yes.

that she WAS partly to blame because she did not discourage him or help with his depression,

She is not to blame for any of his actions. He owns them all himself. She is to blame for her actions. She was a nobody and she owed nothing to you or your husband. He's not quite owning all that's his yet....

Once a WS sees the truth in what they were doing they can be disgusted by everything and everyone involved. So it sounds very normal that he feels this way. He allowed himself to continue with her because he lied to himself about what impact it would have. He can't deny those things now.

However-he needs to one day get to indifference with her. She is a nobody. She is a tool. He used her as a tool to get what he thought he needed. She could have been anyone. She's like a hammer.

I don't care for those who feel they were manipulated by their AP. It takes the responsibility off their choices and their actions. Nobody MADE anyone else do anything. They don't get it if they are blaming any of their actions on anyone else for any reason.

For me, it upsets me when I hear about a WS having hate and other strong but negative feelings for the AP. The reason is this. Their viewpoint has been corrected. They had strong positive feelings for the AP previously, but now that they realize what they were doing those feelings can switch to strong negative feelings.

Strong negative feelings are still emotional and passionate. They connect a feeling to a person. He needs to work towards seeing her as a hammer. In my marriage we've been calling it a baloney sandwich. That woman needs to be a baloney sandwich. Nothing that excites any sort of feeling, just a blah-whatever reaction.

When they get to this point of indifference they can easily walk away from their tools and baloney sandwiches.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 9:17 AM, March 26th (Wednesday)]

I agree with what BtraydWife said.

If whatever attracted him to her is no longer there then he would see her differently and the initial attraction would likely disappear instantly.

If he sees how he was manipulated, I think it's a very healthy sign, and a rare one. There are some who do wake up and see these women for what they are, and if he has a clear thinking mind now, it is natural that he would be disgusted by her and by women like her. Good for him, if that is the case! Hopefully he also sees his part in it all, since you say he realizes she was partly to blame, meaning most of the blame is on him. I trust he has erected good boundaries in dealing with women now, and has disclosed to you just what he would do in certain scenarios?

It's important to realize that there are those people out there who would destroy our marriages if they had half a chance. Otherwise, there would be no need for boundaries, because everyone could be trusted.

If you have doubts as to his sincerity (which is understandable) just give it time and observe. His future actions will reveal to you the truth or falsehood of his words and actions now.

I believe this can happen.

My WH threw OW under the bus immediately. He admitted at first he still thought about her, wondered what she was doing, etc. I think this is normal since they spent 2 years together, talking everyday. After a couple of weeks he started to realize what kind of person she really was and hated her. Now he shows indifference.

Gemstone, that is exactly what happened to me. My wife went from this guy could do no wrong to immense hate. i think she finally saw what kind of low life he was as she found out how much he was lying to her when everything came out in the wash. The topper was when after it was over she found out he had Hep C since he was a former drug user and he never told her and all their sex was unprotected sex. As a result, we both had to have every test in the book done and thank god everything came up clean. I constantly ask her how she could go from him being Mr Wonderful to Mr Scum and all she says is that she now knows what he was truely like. Before she said he put on his besat act and she was stupid enough to believe everything he told her.

Thank you all for your responses. I can see this does happen, so I should not think the worst of him.

yes he does realise he was manipulated by this woman (he lent/gave her quite a bit of money because she was in debt and played the sob story)and I think he does have a bit of a KISA complex.

He didn't blame her at all when I first found out, it is only as we talked more, when he was able to think about it without the 'fog' that he realised that if she had been the 'best and only friend' he thought she was, that she would have really helped him with his depression instead of leading him down the path even further. She knew me as well, so she knew a lot of what he was saying was b------t, but she was getting her own kicks out of the relationship so was happy to continue with it.

we have definatley set the boundaries in his dealing with any women now. He has always been a bit of a flirt, but never anything heavy, always jokey and it was never a problem, but boy it is now and he knows it. I don't think that before he ever really thought much about it, but now he realises that his perceptions are a little off in this matter so he treads very, very carefully.

He has said that in all honesty, she could have been anybody, he needed someone in his life to give him what she did and in a way she was irrelevant. Maybe that, and the fact that he is disgusted with himself, embarrased and ashamed, is what led him to change his feelings/perceptions, so quickly.

I think I probably think about her far more than he does, he has said that the only time she comes into his mind is when I mention her, so I try not to, but as I'm sure you all know, sometimes you can't but help probing at the pain.

This post provoked me to ask my H if he thought that he had been manipulated.

his attitude changed towards her

Like any situation, when a person is able to distance themselves they can discern matters with greater clarity.

she WAS partly to blame because she did not discourage him

If the baker did not bake the cupcakes then I would not get in my car, drive to the bakery, buy the cupcakes and eat them.

Your husband's statement shows that some in our society still shift the blame for an A onto the woman. The OW should have ..... It seems that you also find some comfort in being able to shift some of the blame onto OW.

At first, my H blamed shifted onto me, but not on anyone else. Fortunately, my H sees how his behavior and his choices led to the A.

help with his depression

Engaging in anything secretive is stressful. Remember how much stress you had when you could not tell anybody about something? Stress makes depression worse.

that she used him

My H said that he realizes that he put himself in the position to be manipulated. He began to withdraw from the A when it became obvious that she wanted his money.

took delight in slipping little bits of what she was doing with him into her conversations with me

Gemsone, she was trying to put the nail in the M coffin.

He sees women he works with in action, looking for MM to be their KISA at work when they have so many personal sob stories, then planning for "innocent" outings with them after work and such

@Bobbi- I have been talking to my H and warning him for years about what I call "Weepy Wendy". Now H sees that he got caught. There is nothing new under the sun.

I wish my WBF hated the OP. I wish I did too. She was a nice person who didn't know about me. He lied and took advantage of her. He has no one to blame but himself.

No No No to a bunch of what everyone is saying. Stop shifting the blame BSs!

If the baker did not bake the cupcakes then I would not get in my car, drive to the bakery, buy the cupcakes and eat them.

Your husband's statement shows that some in our society still shift the blame for an A onto the woman. The OW should have ..... It seems that you also find some comfort in being able to shift some of the blame onto OW.

Yes!! Only I'm sure many BHs give this imaginary power to the OM as well. I don't think it's a man/woman thing. I think it's a BS fog thing and most WS would happily play along.

That's why WS who believe they were manipulated are getting better but they are not quite there yet. I'm not safe in my marriage if my WH blames anyone else for his actions, incuding the AP.

The problem isn't that someone tried to manipulate them, people every where are constantly trying that. The problem, the REAL problem, is that they fell for the manipulation.

Just as WSs don't get to blame the BS, they also do not get to blame the AP. They can not own their actions and blame them on someone else at the same time.

Baloney sandwiches people. You are giving too much power to the manipulating APs and it's unhealthy.

It gives a false sense of control while letting the WS off the hook. That's a dangerous combination.

I wish my WBF hated the OP

No you don't. What you really want is for him to feel indifference for her. She was a tool he used, that's all.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 11:56 AM, March 26th (Wednesday)]

My two cents.

I didn't like any of the OW in my situation once I found out.

Wh threw them each under bus, minimizing (didn't know why he did it statement) but in each and every case CHOSE to be unfaithful.

Th Ow, even if she is manipulative made not one vow to us.

Our respective WS however did. Chances are he may have lied to the OW. Chances are WS lied to themselves.

Even if the OW is laying naked and spread eagle, our WS can say no. They chose not to. For what ever reason they risked everything for their own personal pleasure. I remember one comment of many, my WH made. He didn't mean for it to happen, it just did. Now that defies logic. Again, was he naked and fell on her so genitals aligned?, I think not.

I'm human, resent ow. Resent things WS shard with her that he didn't with me. At the end of the day, of the two WS and OW, the WS is responsible. It was his choice, she owed me nothing.

My my WH is the person that had a marriage bond, and children with me. It is amazing how protective the WS can be of AP. Too bad same consideration could have been for us.

He could have said no. He chose affair over me and children.

Th Ow, even if she is manipulative made not one vow to us.

I have said repeatedly that no matter what trashy manipulative whore the OW (or OM) might be, that does not diminish the responsibility of the WS. However I don't agree with dismissing people who "didn't make vows" so easily. I think it is right for both the BS and the WS (who have come to their senses) to strongly dislike or even despise the OP.

In some cases, members here are not married and their WS didn't really make a "vow" to them either, though it was likely assumed they were in a monogamous relationship, and the WS probably conducted the outside sex without the knowledge of his partner. Is that still cheating, or is it okay if he didn't say vows?

I am a little bothered by the big deal about the vows that seem to imply that people who don't make vows (usually the OW or OM) don't really have much obligation to be decent people (so we can't hate them or blame them for anything) and the only real wrong-doing is done by the person who made vows, and broke them.

I wonder how fast some of us disliked our spouses on DDay?

If the baker did not bake the cupcakes then I would not get in my car, drive to the bakery, buy the cupcakes and eat them

The fact is, the baker does bake the cupcakes but you don't have to eat them. You have the capacity to make a decision about whether you want to eat the cupcakes. You know the consequences of your decision and you make an informed choice.

IMO a WS who tries to shift blame (in any proportion) to an AP is no different from one who tries to shift blame to the BS. I would go as far as to question who the real manipulator is. Is it the AP with whom a grownup WS has chosen to engage or is it the WS who is now trying to manipulate the BS into believing that they have a diminished responsibility for the choices they made? We all know about TT, the lies, the rugsweeping, gaslighting, minimising etc. so why on earth would we suggest for even one second that the WS wasn't entirely at fault? I think it could be denial. We struggle to come to terms with what our WS's have done to us and perhaps WE try to shift some of the blame to the AP to salvage a tiny bit of the WS 'who would never do this to us'. Any cornered WS is going to pounce on that and milk it for all it's worth.

Just my thoughts

He knew her for 4-5 years and you find out – then all of sudden he hates her and sees how manipulative she was?

Hmm…I’d have to question that one.

My H had an affair with his secretary – for about 18 months – when I discovered it – he said “he didn’t really love her…blah blah”.

My question was “let me get this straight…yesterday, when I didn’t know – you loved her..now all of sudden, because I know – you don’t love her anymore and she means nothing to you?” Doesn’t make sense to me.

Once he finally left his place of employment – and got some distance from her –that’s when real R began for us and that’s when he really saw her and HIMSELF for what THEY were! Two liars and cheaters trying to justify what they were doing.

As long as he was working with her – he never could reach indifference. Now? I firmly know in my heart – he’s indifferent. He doesn’t blame her or me for anything – he takes full responsibility for everything HE did.

I love the cupcake analogy – perfect!

My wife's OM was an old High School boyfriend. She's always kind of lamented the way they broke up and felt that she was unfair to him.

A couple days after D-day things starting coming out that really made him seem like not such a good guy. He once took her to score speed and left her alone in a drug house while he got high. While they were talking this time he criticized her for using a word that was too "scholarly." He told her that he doesn't like dumb woman but could never be with one that was smarter then him. And he used to give happy ending massages. Those are just my favorites.

Anyway my point is, I think it's what someone said above. After they get out of the fog the rose colored glasses are lifted and they start to see the person they were really involved with completely.

PS I now refuse to refer to him as anything but "Happy Endings"

@Bobbi- I hate hate hate the AP. I no longer refer to "it" as the other woman. I

am the only woman. The AP told me that she always knew about me. As I have said in other posts, I hate her because she knowingly and willingly set out to hurt another human being. I despise her as though she were a stalker out to kill me.

@Living- I can find a food analogy for almost anything.

@Betrayed- Agreed it is not a gender specific blame. However, as a person focused on Women's Studies, I wanted to focus on the fact that so many people have been taught to shift the blame to the female. We have to admit that so often the blame for the A is placed on the fault of the wife ( got fat, no sex, mean etc...) or the slutty other woman.

Sorry for the t/j

[This message edited by TheBestMe at 2:30 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)]

My husband is fully aware that HE cheated on me, she did not cheat on me. He takes full responsibility for causing me hurt and pain and putting me in a place I did nothing to deserve.

He and he alone made the first move to her, and he and he alone made the decision to not walk away when things between them became more intense. that is not desputed at all and he has never denied full responsibilty for his actions, in fact his words at the beginning were that it was not her fault

However, I for one am delighted that he is now able to see that she most certainly is not an innocent party to this. She was fully aware that he was married, (she cleaned in our house)and she chose to continue the relationship knowing that it would cause pain to me and our family. In her words 'she had done nothing wrong'

I cannot accept that; - the OP has to accept some responsibility in any affair. They may not have been the one who cheated on the BS, they may not have broken any vows to the BS, but they have certainly behaved in a way that is totally against any kindness or thought towards another person, it is selfish, nasty behaviour which cannot be condoned.

The WS is totally responsible for cheating on their partner, but the OP's are nasty, evil minded people with no care for anyone else.