Here is my problem and what is bothering me. I do not NEED the money. My wife makes much more than I do. Her affair and lies have set me back undoubtedly. I will be living on a couch for the next few months till I can get myself together. Even then, I will barely making ends meet. I could use the money, but I don't need it. I feel like she is only offering it out of guilt and it sickens me. I feel like this is a character thing since I have already been completely walked over and betrayed. If I file for divorce and request alimony I worry I will feel like I am not being the gentleman I am. On the other hand, my wife has proven she cares less to protect me and making her face the consequences of her affair and betrayal is important. I could take anything she gives and stick it in saving, maybe using it for a rainy day, a future wedding IF we R (we never had one), or simply giving it to a charity. What do I do?????
2. I have taken a great deal of time (over 7 months) to figure out what went wrong in our marriage; what my stuff to own is, and what hers is, what she wants and needs (to the best of my ability given I just found out about the affair now), what I want and need, what I can and cannot promise, and exactly how to healthfully either R or D. I have laid out a clear path for each option. I am considering talking to my spouse in a safe, public place (like a park), and articulately and carefully presenting her with each option to either R or D. I am 100% confident in my ability to follow through on either path with resolve and certainty. The fact is, I do not know her current state of mind. We have been separated (second time) now since 3/18/14. Our latest separation was due to her telling me "I cannot do this anymore, I don't love you, I want a divorce, it is over." Factually, I cannot know if she is still in her A. However, after careful reflection of the past events and what I know as fact, it is more probable she is over her A and the fantasy of it. With that said, I have concluded, with further careful reflection, she is in a state of being exhausted from all the lies and fearful of the pending consequences of her affair.
Here is my struggle. I can move on - without a doubt - and be happy. There is no doubt I tried my all to save our marriage and my love to her is undeniable. However, I know my wife well enough to know in about 6 years time she will heal completely (highly dependent on her dealing with her issues instead of her current path) she will look back and think, "If only I knew what I know now, I made a mistake, I could have been so happy, he really loved me. I regret so much."
Why does this matter? No one would argue I have every right to walk away now and leave her on the side of the road. She made her bed and now it is hers to sleep in. She jumped out of our foxhole, ran fast, and left me to fight the battle alone to take severe wounds and with much loss. But, I love her. I truly care about her happiness. Do I know better for her than she knows for herself? Can I make such a promise to GUIDE her to happiness (not to be confused with MAKING her happy)? You are damn right I can. I can because I know how, I know where to go, I know who to seek, I know her better than she knows herself (she is acting on irrationality and not clear headed), I know myself, I know how to be husband and a man, and I know how to reach her. I do not say this lightly. This is fact.
What is my problem then? Well, I can't help her or guide her if she doesn't want it. I can't do a thing to save her from herself if she doesn't have the will. This is HER choice and HER choice alone. That isn't even the problem. No matter how she chooses I have fulfilled my oaths and love for her.But, lets say she does have the will and puts her trust in me and my promise to see us through these next 2-6 years of recovery. Hmmm... I will have a hell of a fight on my hands and I know what it means to fight a war. I wont just be fighting any war. I will be fighting a war of equal difficulty, if not greater, than any war I have fought before. Fear is not a factor here. I do not fear what I already have been through. It is much more deep than fear - it is actually KNOWING with experience what my mind, body, heart, and soul will suffer and have to battle. Can I do it? I wouldn't even have considered it if I couldn't. I can because I have before. I am a veteran at severe personal and real wars. But, and this is key, the cost is great.
So why...why should I put myself through hell for a woman who literally left me to die on the side of the road? Because, to me, that is a commitment I made on the alter in a small courthouse to the woman I love. I vowed to stand by her, to protect her, to love her unconditionally, to fight for her even if it is against herself, and to never give up as long as I can breathe.
In the movie Braveheart there is a speech Wallace gives as his comrades are leaving the battlefield after seeing how out numbered they were. They were leaving the field not out of fear, but out of hard earned experience and knowledge that the cost is too great for something they saw as less than worthwhile. Wallace gave them a quick look into their futures. He made them look at themselves years from that moment and see that the will to fight for what you love is more important than the seemingly safer alternative. There is another story of few US marines who were walking down a road in WW2 towards a fight where they were heavily out numbered in order to reinforce US soliders. They were sleep deprived, hungry, poorly armed, and battle hardened. US Army tanks and infantry were retreating and crossed paths. The story goes an infantry man told one marine desperately, "what are you marines doing? Don't you know it is hell up there? "The marine replies, "get behind us, we know the way." While these are stories, they are based on real human conditions. The moral behind the stories, at least to me, is it at the end of it all, it isn't success, money, comfort, safety, or even time that matters. What matters is how proud you are of what you see in the mirror, and how bravely you fought for what you love when you are at the end of your life.
I have fought some hard, personal, and real battles. I know what I am getting myself into through experience. I know in my soul fighting for my wife and the oaths I stand for will honor my character, regardless of whatever else I lose in the process. The real reality is the battle might already be over and I will have to move on and bury the casualties. Lets face it, I have been badly betrayed, I was fighting an enemy and the one person I thought was my ultimate ally ended up leaving my side completely exposed. I ended up, and still am, taking deep wounds.
Am I holding onto something already long dead because I am so ingrained on never giving up, that I am failing to see there is nothing left to give up on? Or am I just at the near bottom of that moment when your mind begins to give up despite the fact your body can go a 100 more rounds? Will I regret allowing my mind to tell my body, "you can't and shouldn't, when in reality "I can and dammit, I should!"
You can see my warrior spirit and sheepdog mentality is causing me some serious struggles. I know I fight to the very end and while this is a necessary quality for physical survival, it may cause me a great deal of further harm in the case of my WW who is lost.
If, you have words of wisdom and can shed light on something I am perhaps not seeing, then please comment. I am really looking towards the veterans of being a BS, and a WW.
At the moment, my inner answer to number one is, "NO", and number two is "Hell Yes."
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to my inner battle and for your help.
[This message edited by justme1264 at 5:17 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
People process grief in some fairly predictable ways. Right now you seem to be in the denial/bargaining phase. You also are clinging to the idea that there's something you could do or say which would open your wife's eyes to what a great guy you are. Only there's not. You're grasping at false hope.
You're long past the moment of rallying the troops, my friend. You've already been betrayed by Robert the Bruce, you've already been tried & sentenced, you've already been drawn & quartered. It's time for the Lord High Executioner to lop off your head via divorce so you can move on to your freedom.
We all truly do know what you're going through. Each of us has been at the NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! phase, not wanting to accept that this is what's happening. You're not alone.
"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl
Is a part of me hoping to continue to be able to grow the marriage I know I can have? Of course - I think that will always be there. But I am doubting if I truly am hoping for THIS marriage to be saved. Or it is out of my personal belief system as a role of her husband, and what I define as love in its entirety. I don't know, it is hard to process.
I hear you when you repeat what she said. But I was there, I have known my wife for 8 years. I know when she is making a mistake and doesn't yet see it, or does see it, but doesn't truly understand what the cost of the mistake will be.
I am trying to figure out if my motivation is truly out of love or out of my fighting spirit.
You have an incredible point about betrayal when it comes Robert the Bruce. But, if I don't reach our to my wife this final time then I will have admitted fealty to the A-Hole English King (leaving her to her fate when I can extend the option for her to grab the lifeboat).
Do not get me wrong, you cannot save someone who doesn't want to be saved. This isn't that. Her actions and reactions will say everything after I am done talking to her - I will walk away, knowing I never admitted allegiance to everything I stand against. I will go the chopping block of D with dignity.
Maybe that is what it will end up being regardless. And eventually she will ride the battle field in honor of what she destroyed and lost.
I have to be careful because I MAY very well still be blinded to my false understanding of who my wife really is vs the blanket of lies that has been her A.
You gave me a lot to think about - mainly am I really fighting for a woman who deserves to be fought - the woman I know/knew to be my wife - or am I fighting for a woman who is truly the enemy?
Wallace may have slept with the queen after his love died. But it wasnt her face he saw right before he died. He didn't yell freedom for the queen...he yelled it for her.
Please, don't stop making me face my inner struggle here. I need to be 1000000% certain before I make this decision. I cannot tell you how valuable your comments are. In the end I will do what I believe to be right - but that doesn't mean what I current think is right, is actually right. I am not wise enough to know I do not have all the angles figured out to make a sound choice - otherwise I wouldn't be posting here.
What you said hits to a new cord. I didn't think about it that way. You are right - I cannot tell her what her way is or even begin to think I know what her way SHOULD be. That is her choice and a very human need. Damn...you really hit the spot. I need to think about this. Something doesn't sit right and I will respond when I can figure it out.
[This message edited by justme1264 at 6:11 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
This is one of the more maddening bits of being betrayed and watching your spouse fuck up their life, taking you (and any children) down with their sinking ship. You can't do a damn thing about it.
Can I encourage you to consider the following - my wife is making decisions out of pure fear from her lies. It is the consequences she is worried about. She is so worried about them that she rather be unhappy and push everything away than face them. Her fear is irrational. Sure there will be consequences - but in reality she is like a 4 year old who stole candy and thinks the FBI is going to lock her up forever.
What I am considering is offering to give her the reality and show her it isn't as bad as she thinks it is. That she will have to pay up but isn't doomed.
My wife's lying stems from her FOO. I don't know - sure, my role in helping her was valid BEFORE she had the A and decided to D. And if I had a little more time it would have been a different outcome(I literally was going to do this 10 days before I found out about the full affair but wasn't fully ready to be certain I can promise it successfully).
Fact is, and you are all going say agree, she made a choice - the questions now is did she make the choice to forge her new path or did she make the choice out of pure, irrational, fear?
I think I am missing the point and trying to rationalize what I cannot make sense of, or do not want to accept.
I am deeply hurt she chose the "easy" way out and didn't stand by my side while I battled some heavy demons. I do not resent her. I accept her. I am just deeply hurt. It is as if while I am on the chopping block, smiling at her face, ready to die for everything I believe in and knowing my work will go on to do huge things...it is as if she turned around, flicked me off, and screwed the Scottish Lords who originally betrayed me. Maybe this is irrational of me and I am actually over reacting. But it sure as hell feels that painful.
I want to encourage you to take your focus OFF your wife and turn it on yourself. What are you proving by clinging to a corpse? Who are you trying to please? Who do you need to prove that you've done everything possible?
I also want to suggest that when the anger comes - and brother I think you're in for a hell of an anger tsunami - you should welcome it. I have a feeling you're going to be shocked at the depths and intensity of the anger. You'll probably see this situation more clearly when anger comes & clears out all the confusion.
However, you can become a pest and push her further away if you keep pressing. Can you put some space between you? Are there children involved? Are you in IC? Will she go to MC? I also understand the money part, but when that anger comes, you will want it. I say take her up on her offer. File with a lawyer. See her reaction.
[This message edited by Caretaker1 at 6:43 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
I am in IC, we do not have children, we have had time apart for the last 6 month off and on. She called me back in Jan the week after she ended her A. She did not tell me about the affair. She had FULL intentions to be with me but her lies caught up to her and it was more than she could handle so she ran. She said she doesnt know how to and couldnt do it anymore. She left because she gave up and got dead scared of having to face the feelings of hers and mine due to the outfall of all she did. There are more lies and more things she is hiding from - she simply ran because she is not equipped to deal with the truth.
More time apart is a must. Even if we R, the path is clear to me and it would still result in me filing for D. I would only not finalize the divorce IF she shows she is again worthwhile. There is a lot more to this. I would not be jumping back into this M because frankly she is not safe to be in a M with. That would take time and that would be just one of the many trials of the path to R.
[This message edited by justme1264 at 7:04 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
However, I know my wife well enough to know in about 6 years time she will heal completely (highly dependent on her dealing with her issues instead of her current path) she will look back and think, "If only I knew what I know now, I made a mistake, I could have been so happy, he really loved me. I regret so much."
Yeah, I loved his potential too. I knew him. I knew he would regret this. I knew he was making the biggest mistake of his life. I knew he was lost. I knew he would 'see' it one day. I knew he would wake up. I knew he was scared. I knew it was my job to show him he way back.
In my BS fogged eyes I saw a lot of 'me' in these things I knew. Truth is I was projecting my integrity, my good heart, my values and my commitment to this M on a man who was making it crystal clear to me that he did not share them and that he was toxic to me.
She had a 6m A and lied about it, repeatedly. This wasn't a mistake or an error of judgement - it was a choice. She is choosing to not work on your M. Try all you like you can't nice or wish or hope her into true remorse. If she doesn't have a shred of it now (regret is VERY different to remorse) it isn't going to magically grow.
You want to be her KISA. Maybe you're toxic to her too. Maybe your tolerance, kindness and empathy is bad for someone like her.
You're making more excuses than she is.. You're gaslighting yourself more than she is.
The dreaded 'what ifs' are very very common - I lived in that hell for a long time myself. I knew him too. I knew him so well I ignored everything I was seeing that contradicted what I knew.
We were special. Our love was special. Our M was special. His betrayal was different.....
Bullshit. He and every unremorseful wayward on these boards are exactly the same - including your wife. Everything she is doing is in the cheaters handbook. Everything you are doing is in the early chapters of the BS handbook. Nothing special or unique. Just fucked up.
Your war analogy is a good one. She lost the battle friend, she retreated from the war. You're still standing in the trenches by yourself and your adversary has long left the battlefield. You're standing there in the hope that they will come back.
Tell me - from her actions would you say she was in the trenches with you or was she your adversary? Think on it and what the answer means.
You're not fighting some invisible foe - her FOO, her shame, her inability to cope and all of the other bullshit reasons you tell yourself as to why she did this and why she isn't fighting for you and your M. You're fighting a shadow, who you thought she was, what you think you 'know' about her. You're fighting to BE right instead of fighting for what IS right.
I hated being so wrong too. I refused to see it too. I found it very very hard to accept. I still find it difficult to accept now. But I was wrong about this man I married, had children with and spent almost a decade with. Devastatingly, breathtakingly, heartbreakingly wrong.
Stop seeing her through what you"know" about her and start seeing what she is showing you.
She is showing you who she is - believe her.
[This message edited by SBB at 8:00 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
I just posted something on the Just Found Out forum- just the raw state I am in - You are right on a lot of things you said. I think it is more than fighting a shadow. I think I died on the battle field already and I just haven't yet realized it. I think my difficulty in seeing my own death was because her A and betrayal left me wide open for the killing blow.
[This message edited by justme1264 at 8:07 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
I thought I would die of heartbreak too. Here I am 2 years post DD, still wildly alive.
What died on my 'battlefield' was the man I thought I married, the lies I told myself and the part of me that thought my job was to hold my family together no matter what. No matter what the expense to me. All needed to die.
I'm still mourning but I'm no longer dying.
You're going to be OK. So much more than OK. Your heart is in the right place - you'll be amazed at the leaps and bounds you'll make once your pour that energy into you.
It is nice to hear from someone who was once in the same place I am in right now. It is reassuring. I dont feel like I will die from heartbreak - it is more than heartbreak - it is betrayal. I don't feel like I will die - I know I will thrive again. I just feel...hurt...there isn't even a word to describe the level of hurt. Hurt doesn't even fit.
If you don't mind me asking...is he regretting it...was it the biggest mistake of his life?
[This message edited by justme1264 at 8:32 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
Who knows if he regrets it? This 42 y/o loser is currently shacked up with his 24 y/o office gopher (not even DD OW) playing happy families with my girls 50% of the time. When this ridiculous relationship ends he'll be more depressed than ever before and will come fishing - not because he loves me but because he is a parasite who needs a host.
He will regret it one day but by then I'll be way beyond caring. You will get there too. Just got to get through this hard stuff first.
We all reach 'DONE' at different times for different reasons. Read up on the 180/NC. Don't allow her to cake eat. There is an emotional bakery as well as a physical one. I ended up in False R for 3m after an 8w S because I kept the emotional bakery open. I was too wounded to protect myself.
On DD I told him:
You don't know it yet but you've just made the biggest mistake of your life. I don't know it yet but you've just done me the biggest favour of my life.
I sure do know it now. I won't thank him for the favour.
You deserve better than someone who could do this to their husband. When you're feeling sentimental remind yourself of how she lied to and betrayed you for that entire 6m - exposed you to STDs and brought another into your M. The disrespect is as astonishing as the cruelty and ease with which they did it.
You'll hit the anger phase soon enough - channel it into evicting this parasite from your life, from your heart and from your mind.