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Uhtred posted 3/27/2014 19:33 PM

People,

I'm looking for something to calm and ease my nerves. This may be a bit long and I hope someone will read it and respond. I guess I'm just looking for opinions on remorse or being sorry that you got caught. I just want to be heard tonight because I'm struggling.. I might should've posted this in the reconciliation forum since I'm trying my best to dig my way out of this shit storm with her.

I'll start by saying that my wife and I were very much in love (obviously me more than her). The moment she started the affair I knew something wasn't right and confided in a friend that I thought she was having an affair. He laughed and said there was no way and that I was imagining things. We've never fought more than the average couple and we've never been apart since our wedding day.

About two weeks after she started having sex with the other man we had a knock down drag out that resulted in me getting a motel for the night. Here are the contents of my email and her reply. Remember this happened two weeks after my wife and AP started sleeping together.

IHTOILM,

I'm not sure what happened last night but I'm left with a serious feeling of emptiness and sadness. Depression has sat in on me something severe. Where do we go from here? What are we doing to each other that is causing this? Why would I explode on you like I did and why did you explode on me? I feel a bit of anger and resentment at you and can't seem to shake it. I love my family and cannot see myself leaving, but I did. I try the best way that I know how to please you and to take care of our family. Maybe I'm a lousy person for leaving but it is the only thing I knew to do at the time. I love our boys very much and would not neglect them for anything in the world.

I'm sorry for referring to your mother like I did. I love them like they were my own and have the utmost respect for them. I realize that they have given us a lot and I'm grateful. You do not pull any punches when it comes to my family and have made it clear on a few occasions in front of other people. I only have one specific memory of you doing it and its really no big deal to me but it was in front of ****. I'm not sure why you reacted quite like you did since we were joking around outside. Maybe you have some anger and resentment toward me.

I hate what happened last night and what's done is done. It seems like there is something between us that doesn't feel right. I have always loved you and always will and am at a loss for words. I can't imagine a life without you being in it but here I stand. I'm still very angry and know that I spoke to you out of anger last night and I'm sorry for that. This is such a small problem that has compounded into a large one. I'm not asking you to beg because you made it clear last night that you didn't want me to leave. I will see you this evening and will see the boys and help get them off to bed.

Her response,

I will be here when you get home.

I am unsure of exactly why last night happened like it did as well. I have gone over it a thousand times in my head and I don't know why things got so out of control. Like you, I have had a heavy heart today and I am sick with depression. I love this family too and I don't want to see us lose each other over anything. I have always been confident that given our past we could overcome any other obstacles that arise.

Thank you for apologizing for what you said about my parents. I know you love them as they do you. I know that in the past I have said too much about your parents and for that I apologize also.

I don't know that I have anger and resentment towards you that is unresolved. I try not to hang on to things if possible because I know that does me no good whatsoever.

I hate what happened last night too. I never want us to do that to each other again. I don't want to get to a point where there is no turning back, right now I don't feel like we are at that point and I hope that you don't either. I am not ready to throw in the towel. I am sorry for my actions. I feel like we owe it to each other and most of all to the boys to work through our problems and be the best family we can be for them.

In no way do I feel like this is an excuse nor do I want to think I want you to take it that way but I had a horrible case of pms and have started my period, like I said, that is no excuse but it does typically make my emotions much more dramatic. I also am very worried and scared of what is going on with my breast. I spent my entire day yesterday thinking of it and I am scared, I have never been scared like this.

I love you Uhtred. I want you to stay at home tonight where you belong and where we can make steps to fix our problems and move on stronger together.

This was the beginning of the affair and there are many emails like this throughout the affair. I broke down to her and cried on numerous occasions telling her that something was wrong and she assured me that I was the love of her life and things were ok between us.

Only to find her texting and emailing other man during these episodes and planning their meet ups.
I've never been one to cry but what she was doing was breaking my heart and I didn't have concrete evidence at the time but I knew in my heart that she was up to no good.

At one point she was going out dancing with her mom and dad and taking my oldest son (VFW harmless crowd) while I stayed home with our youngest. The dancing was over at 8:30. I strongly suggested that she not do this because I was uncomfortable with it. I gave in though because I participate in mixed martial arts and was gone a few nights and some mornings during the week. My suspicions were strong and her mom posted some pictures on FB of my wife standing next to who I thought was the affair partner. I confronted her about it and she assured me that nothing was going on and that I was the love of her life. I shed a tear or two because again my heart was breaking. Come to find out the AP was there most of the time with his wife too I just didn't know he was the AP at the time.

2 weeks before DDAY I cried to her telling her I loved her and felt like she didn't want me anymore. She smiled and said it couldn't be further from the truth and that she loved me more than anything (except herself.

2 days before DDAY I repeated the same thing and One of the things that I can't seem to get past is during the affair period I cried out for her and it fell on deaf ears. She was a most excellent pretender because after each episode she'd make me feel like I was imagining things and of course she loved me. There was a lot of blame shifting on the kids and about numerous other things but I'd fall back into being depressed because my heart knew what my brain was screaming.

I'm just wondering how someone can say that they love you and claim that they never stopped even during the affair period and keep doing these things that were killing me knowingly.

If you read my email to her closely I tell her that I'm having anger and resentment toward her. I mention that there is something between us that's not right.

She responds that she loves me too and given our past (I've never had an affair) that we could work through anything and she wasn't ready to throw in the towel. I guess she wanted to have her cake and eat it too? How could she not see that she was the cause of why I left the first time and that the affair that she was having was breaking us apart? She says at the time it didn't even dawn on her that the reason I was acting out was because she was having an affair. She says she sees it clearly now.

Can one really be that stupid? I guess my whole point of all of this is that she was killing me slowly the whole time and I was begging her to stop. Now that she got caught she is sorry for everything and will never put me back in this situation again (just like she's always told me that I never had to worry about her having an affair and that's its something she could never forgive. She has lived transparently and to my knowledge has not had any contact with the om. She is doing IC and trying to right her wrongs.

How does one determine remorse or sorry that I got caught and hurt you in the process? She always said that she thought that she could handle it because she'd never get caught and that she was going to end it eventually.

I'm glad she is sorry now but I gave her so many chances to stop before she made me catch her. Serious damage has occurred to me and to the marriage. I question myself daily as to why the hell I'm still here fighting for someone that took me for granted, didn't show me love, and treated me like a piece of garbage to be thrown away.

I have a lot of texts, emails, and pictures burned into my mind. I have a considerable amount of dreams about her and AP. I've been woken up in twice in middle of the night having her in a rear naked choke dreaming that I found them together and was choking the other man. I know she'll read this and I'm sure that we'll have a good talk about it but her words aren't good enough. Her reasons aren't good enough for me.

Thanks for listening if you're still reading I just needed to write some shit down and get it off my chest. Opinions and suggestions are welcome.

Uhtred posted 3/27/2014 19:45 PM

I forgot to add that the affair went on for a year before discovery and seemed to show no plan of stopping it.

SeanFLA posted 3/27/2014 20:07 PM

I guess I'm not quite sure what your question is. If its asking how do you know remorse vs feeling bad about getting caught? If it is well remorse is different than guilt or regret. Whereas she might feel guilty or regretful that's she was caught, she might not be remorseful. You will know remorse when you see it. When she comes begging on her hands and knees for you not to leave her, well that's a good sign remorse is kicking in.

StillGoing posted 3/27/2014 20:14 PM

I hear you.

Unfortunately a lot of that stuff is standard fare. Starting fights means creating a divide between the two of you so the A can take root. Making you question your view of reality is called gaslighting. My wife did some fucked up things in those departments.

Wish I had a solid answer wrt remorse. If her reasons aren't good enough, I think it might do you some good to think about what answer would be good enough.

I know that my wife was sure that, during her A, the A was not the problem in our marriage and that those problems were independent of the affair.

She had a lot of reasons, and they kept changing. They weren't good enough for me either. Because I would not have an affair for any of them.

You don't have to be sure about staying or not. Work it out. In the meantime, you may want to consider sleeping on the couch. You know how dangerous that choke can be, and if you are half asleep she can't tap out.

Her being remorseful doesn't mean you are required to stay, either. IMO it is a requirement for R, but R is a choice you both get to make regardless. I decided to stay and it will be 4 years in about a month. We are doing pretty well, though that means all the normal problems life has. I trust her again, though I will never completely trust anyone ever again. I have my issues right now but those are about me; I'm really happy with where the two of us are right now.

This shit, it's all rough. There's no straight road. Stay calm, stay safe, stay right man.

Howie posted 3/27/2014 20:37 PM

'How does one determine remorse or sorry that I got caught and hurt you in the process? She always said that she thought that she could handle it because she'd never get caught and that she was going to end it eventually."
The complexity of your response is the first key, these situations can be more complex that categories of yes/no. My wife said she never stopped loving me, she lied becasue she wanted what she wanted- and I would never know,I would never be hurt. So that was great (for her) right?.In these cases of betrayals,there are real rats and then there are cases of selfishness and utter compartmentalization. I am convinced my wife was convinced she wasn't hurting me. So that fantasy ends with discovery-what then?
There are actions and words and time.The right actions, no contact, absolute truth, answering your questions,the right words,apologizes and vows never again. And then,the test of time, your gut, your mind, your heart evaluating every aspect of her reform-- after weeks, months.
Like the guy said there is NO simple easy road now.
The fact that she was an frequent and excellent
liar has bearing mostly in terms of your new
alertness (good),not necessarily in terms of her truthful remorse. My wife was a great liar,really good at it but-as time as shown,her remorse was honest and real.
The damage is real, and yours. Can you love her after? Does she deserve the chance? My advice: watch and wait. Sorry you are here.

justinpaintoday posted 3/27/2014 20:47 PM

Ur ww is not remorseful she's just regrets that she got caught. She may legitimately regret hurting you she may legitimately read decisions that she's made. But regret this passive my wife regrets things however my wife is not remorseful. Remorse is active remorse is an action. It is continually focusing on rebuilding and feeling you and the trust that she selfishly broke.

I'm sorry you're here but unfortunately it looks like you belong.

deeplysad posted 3/27/2014 21:29 PM

I often wonder how a person can look at someone they supposedly love in so much pain and continue to lie to their face. My personal opinion is that there is something seriously wrong with that person.

How she could watch you try so hard to figure out what was wrong and try so hard to fix your marriage and not confess is beyond my comprehension. I'm just not wired that way.

It was like she was intentionally torturing you. Your pain meant nothing. She wanted what she wanted and she didn't care who got hurt.

Do you really feel you'll be able to ever trust her again? Can you ever truly love her again? I mean you don't even know who she really is anymore. She certainly isn't the person you thought you married.

For me, remorse is down on the floor, crying so hard you can't breathe. It means going to IC and showing you the remorse every day in every way. Has that happened? Sounds to me like lots of regret that the fun ended, but no real remorse.

JMHO.

Uhtred posted 3/27/2014 21:47 PM

I will say this that she has demonstrated to me down on her knees weeping that if I give her another chance she won't make me regret it. She tells me daily that she is sorry for putting me here. All I can say is I'm sorry that you put me here to. It's just hard looking back at all the "chances" that I gave her to straighten up and she took it all for granted. She figured I'd be there to support her while she stayed at home my kids were in school and me paying for it all for her to go fuck around while I was hard at work.

I just don't see how you can watch someone bleed the one you say that is the love of your life and still carry on doing what your doing. I just can't make sense of it because I'd never do that to the one I loved most. She says she's not that person anymore. I wish I could read the thoughts in her head. She tells me all of this but she's told me a lot more lies than truth so I don't trust her at all. I do love her still. She was the love of my life. I just can't love her like I used to no matter how hard I try. She really ruined a good thing. Some of the reasoning for the affair that she gives I find to be bullshit and some I agree with.

Uhtred posted 3/27/2014 21:51 PM

For someone that had a heavy heart and was sick with depression she sure didn't have a problem going and continuing what she was doing and continuing to hurt me. I guess more than anything I just see where I stood in her ranks and it fucking hurts like hell. I gave my best to her and that just wasn't good enough.

BAB61 posted 3/27/2014 22:59 PM

I feel for you Uhtred! My STBX was completely unremorseful and told me it was all my fault, because "You always have to be right" ... well, usually I am! He also claimed we hadn't had sex in 2 years. But that was an out and out lie. He tried to lie to me about it .. and he lied to OW and some of his friends (they knew he was sexting her, but didn't think it was more).

Not trying to t/j but just laying some ground work ... sounds to my like she really is completely unrepentant. If you had never caught her she would still be cake-eating and gaslighting you.

True remorse: is sorry, understands the pain caused, wants to help you heal, works to heal the breach, is committed to not straying again, agrees to NC with AP, agrees to IC and MC, truly listens to your rants and vents, owns the A as their fault/choice, is willing to go above and beyond what you need to feel safe ... at least in my book ... and since that didn't happen with STBX I kicked him out!

reallyscrewedup7 posted 3/28/2014 09:07 AM

Uhtred,

I wish I could give you something to cling to while you work on your marriage, but honestly, it is dead. And you searching for something to cling to when there is no marriage left is painful. Pure hell actually.

Look, it is clear you love her. It is also clear she doesn't want to lose you NOW. And I know you do not want to "lose" but sometimes you have to let go. Just let it be and find yourself.

To that end, I prescribe the following
1. Find a specialist in PTSD. You have it in spades brother and you need professional help. With all the vets in Houston, I bet you can find a dozen good ones that provide various therapies that will help you.
2. Maybe it is time to consider pulling the plug on the marriage. Take your time and seriously reflect on this, but you are trying to hold onto something that is just not there. I get the strong impression you think she is not and cannot ever be safe. That if she sees some guy she might like, she will replace you again. All the crying and weeping and begging is just because she doesn't want to be alone. Maybe I am wrong, but that is the impression I am getting from you.

Look I am not recommending #2 lightly. I know I had to do it to find myself and learn again to value myself. We are still together because even when faced with divorce, she worked on herself to become and demonstrate that she was safe and would be fully invested in us, not just her. It worked for us, but frankly, if it had not, I would have been more than fine moving on without her.

I know you are not there. But maybe after you take some time to consider your options without her, you might get to the point where you can make a better decision for yourself.

Just some thought. But please get help regardless.

BtraydWife posted 3/28/2014 10:21 AM

((uhtred))

I don't know all your details but from the other responses and from what you wrote it seems you have an unremorseful ww. I'm so sorry.

Cheaters lie. They lie to themselves, their APs, their friends, their families, and their spouses.

They also compartmentalize, and that's similar to having different personalities. There is the affair Mrs Uhtred and the married Mrs Uhtred and as much as she can, she doesn't let the two mix.

Cheaters can't face their issues. They are cowards. So running from facing the issues is very common. It's also why people drag on in sort of R. It's just the WS still trying to deny and avoid their problems.

It is a very selfish thing. To cause someone hurt and only be worried about yourself.

Getting down on her knees means nothing, in fact it's part of an over the top show to try to persuade you. It's a sign of deceit. You can tell because she doesn't follow it up with actions.

Actions matter so much more than words. People lie. People rarely do something they don't want to do, and if they are able to muster up some fake actions, they won't be able to maintain them long term.

She shows you who she is with actions. Her words will be used to confuse and distract you from those actions. Words from an unremorseful wayward are for stalling.

You can't make anyone face their own problems. What you can do is set boundaries on what kind of person you are willing to be with and what kind of treatment from them you are willing to accept.

The best and only way possible to knock an unremorseful fence sitter off is by following through with serious consequences. It's not a guarantee that it will work, but it's the best shot you have. The really unwell ones will run away taking all their unresolved problems with them.

If she does leave rather than work to save the marriage it is important you remember this.

Try to understand that she is not picking him or any other man over you. She is picking running from her issues instead of facing them.
Being with you requires her to face her problems and get help. Being with someone else allows her to deny she has any problems. Likely because they have issue of their own.

You are healthy enough to know what she's doing isn't right and she's running from facing that, not from you. And until she's able to accept that she has problems and she makes the decision to face them and work on them, nothing will change.

5454real posted 3/28/2014 11:15 AM

Uhtred,

RSU has some really good points regarding PTSD. Regarding your ww, is there anything that you have requested of her that she is unwilling or unable to do?

Her affair might well have been a deal breaker for you. She will never be able to rewrite history I am not suggesting you just get over it. IC and MC can give you the tools to help deal with the fallout. What they can't do is make you fall in love with, or trust her again. Those our decisions you will have to make.

IDK, maybe you have already made those decisions. if so, act accordingly. if not, I will refer you to one of the least favorite words on this site. time

strength brother

Uhtred posted 3/29/2014 08:22 AM

I appreciate all of the responses. There isn't anything that my wife hasn't done that I haven't asked her or that she didn't offer. She checks in with me I have all the passwords she changed her number and is repentant and remorseful.

I just can't get over the amount of tears that have fallen from my eyes. I can't seem to get over the pain that this has caused me. What she has done has really destroyed the person I was and am. I'm in IC and MC. We have a good counselor that really pushes I just don't know why after 11 months I'm still grieving. It feels like a death that just happened today.

I know she is starting to realize the magnitude of what has happened. She was never with anyone before me and all that was special is lost. I will try to find someone who specializes in PTSD. Thanks everyone

sisoon posted 3/29/2014 12:46 PM

There isn't anything that my wife hasn't done that I haven't asked her or that she didn't offer. She checks in with me I have all the passwords she changed her number and is repentant and remorseful.

That says to me your W's actions do show remorse.

I just can't get over the amount of tears that have fallen from my eyes. I can't seem to get over the pain that this has caused me.

Great love + betrayal = LOTS & LOTS of pain. 11 months just isn't enough time to heal the grief, especially since you focused on anger first (and may have over-focused on anger).

I imagine you feel like your grief is never-ending. Actually, it's finite. If you keep processing it, you will get through it - but you've got to give yourself more time, maybe much more.

And keep in mind SG's point - if the A is a deal killer, you can walk away with your head held high.
****************************************

Remember, lots of fWSes here report loving their BSes even during the their As. IMO, that wasn't love, but I've never been inside any WS's head either. To some extent, my W thought I would support her in her A because she was doing it to prevent ow from committing suicide. Once she got in touch with reality, though, we've ben able to get back together.

BSes probably will never understand WSes' ability to cheat.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:47 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]