What made a bigger impact on my FWH was us reading "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass together. We each read a chapter and discussed each one. She explains how important the truth is to the BS's healing and my FWH finally "got it" and 8-9 months after d-day finally told me the whole truth.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson "She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:29 AM, March 30th (Sunday)]
You will probably find people who it worked for and people who it didn't. I think it depends where a WS is and what their mindset is at the time it is read.
All of these things are tools to try and reach your WS. Use them all. What do you have to lose?
Realize, though, that if she isn't there, nothing will really make a difference. So make sure to take care of you.
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl
"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."
It is tough but a false R would be harder
I think the negative of puttings things out there to check where she is at is the sliver of belief they are further along and more open eyed than actually are. It is tough but a false R would be harder
Gently, this is the making for rugsweeping. Rugsweeping so that you don't have to face the reality of your situation, whatever that may be, would be more detrimental. You will be angry with yourself.
Put it out there. It is always better to know what cards are on the table. Hugs!
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp
This is a post by Joseph, a member of the now defunct BAN Message Board. He wrote to this letter to his wife to explain why he asked for details of her affair. To Whomever, I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes. You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.
To Whomever, I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.
No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.
You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.
You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.
Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.
To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.
When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.
Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.
You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.
So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.
I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.
So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.
It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.
Something I have observed - the WS we now know since DD (and often much before that) changed from who we originally stood on the alter and exchanged vows with. There is a school of thought which states, "no one really changes; they just become more of who they are." I think the moral of this statement is people's character evolves over time based on this person's actions, or lack thereof, to themselves and the world around them. WSs I am finding, especially the serial ones, illicit revulsion in their former spouses and for good reason -they are not safe...if not down right toxic to our own sanity. Our feelings as the BSs of indifference towards toxic ex spouses, such as these, is something more though I think - it is a hellish orgy of the human emotional spectrum, which really is another way to define, 'un-remorseful betrayal.' I think it is fair to say most reading this forum section have a solid understanding of remorse. So you can appreciate what un-remorseful betrayal feels and is like; it is as horrible as anything the person you loved could do to you. I do not think any of us would have imagined someone raising their hand on that special day of our vows and simply say, "I object - do not marry him/her, they will betray you without remorse." We all would have looked at that person, probably even the soon-to-be WS, with admonishment. Makes me wonder, why do priests always ask if anyone objects?
WSs I am finding, especially the serial ones, illicit revulsion in their former spouses and for good reason -they are not safe...if not down right toxic to our own sanity.
Our feelings as the BSs of indifference towards toxic ex spouses, such as these, is something more though I think - it is a hellish orgy of the human emotional spectrum, which really is another way to define, 'un-remorseful betrayal.' I think it is fair to say most reading this forum section have a solid understanding of remorse. So you can appreciate what un-remorseful betrayal feels and is like; it is as horrible as anything the person you loved could do to you.
I do not think any of us would have imagined someone raising their hand on that special day of our vows and simply say, "I object - do not marry him/her, they will betray you without remorse." We all would have looked at that person, probably even the soon-to-be WS, with admonishment. Makes me wonder, why do priests always ask if anyone objects?
So yeah, I think I am just processing and trying to discern if my WS has "un-remorsefully betrayed" me or not. You can only replay and re-look at the past facts and actions of your WS so much. Thing is, it is hard to figure out without current communication and/or observation. It isn't about R anymore or wanting the marriage. Frankly, all of that is irrelevant. Kind of like having to learn Algebra, but first we need make sure we both understand multiplication.
I do not want anyone to confuse this me trying to make "sense" of things. That isn't as all what I am doing. I am actually trying to understand better in order to have an even better understanding of myself, and the world around me.
Please, if you see any holes in my thought process here, or see something that I am not seeing, POST and swing that 2x4. I love 2x4s...I can build a house with them
[This message edited by justme1264 at 2:08 PM, March 30th (Sunday)]
