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User Topic: A theory stuck in my brain...
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. I can't believe I'm about to say this...but maybe in this vast world of SI there is someone with the same experience.

I've been toying with the idea stbxwh might be questioning his sexuality and his LTEA might be an attempt to continue running from the truth.

The facts:
- we have had a terrible sex life from early on when we were in our early-mid twenties. I used to chase him around the house begging for it. Last many years, sex might happen 4-5 times a year. This was always a big prob for me and he said it was for him too. But he was never interested. Blamed it on me and fighting.
- when we did have sex, it was never just fun sex it was always attached to some negative emotion for him- like guilt. We only really had sex when he was guilty- usually after a night of drinking and fighting with me.
- he drank a lot. All our friends wondered why he felt the need to always be the drunkest wherever we were.
- he has always been unhappy to depressed. Blamed it on me.
-when we were out, he NEVER looked at women, but I often felt like he looked at guys.
- some of our mutual friends have told me since our separation they wouldn't be surprised if...
-he abhors porn. Thinks it's embarrassing. Thinks it's disgusting. Any type.
-he is obsessed with his looks and looking trendy. Always. Not related to A.
-his Dad is gay (probably means nothing- but theories if genetics)
-whenever there is anything about anti-gay stuff in a movie or on tv, he cries. When we first heard song "same love" he bawled.
- the AP is ugly. Many have said she "looks like a teen boy".
Not to toot my own horn, but people say Im attractive and a million more times than her.
-on the tape recording of them, he was a bit aloof and she was throwing herself at him. I *think* she really was the "force" behind the A. She loves him and wasn't going to give up. I blame him- yes- but I do not feel he pursued her.
- he is so. Fucking. Angry. About everything. All the time. Anger like "something else is up here because who is THIS angry?"
- when we talk about "what if our kid was gay?" and I talk about it making zero difference to me - he cries...
- his stepdad is a redneck asshole who, when stbxwh was 15, told him to stop listening to such "homo" music and man up. Basically told him he WOULD go into
Business, make a bunch of money, get a wife. Stbxwh wanted to travel- but did everything to fit the mold stepfather laid out.
- he swears, SWEARS there was no PA. This one I'm careful about because there could be lots of reasons to lie about it...
He's certainly lied about a lot.
- I asked him once if he was gay and he lost. His. Shit. I asked him very lovingly after A was all out in the open between NC and just told him he seemed really lost, unhappy, troubled... He was furious and brought it up 3-4 times in MC after as "the biggest insult." And said "Im not gay."

Anyway- I have thought this for years waaaaay before A happened. I thought for a long time he had a crush on his male best friend.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this? I know- it really doesn't matter at this point and it's energy into figuring him out that really should be directed elsewhere. Just wondering your thoughts...

[This message edited by Klove at 7:21 PM, March 30th (Sunday)]


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
norabird
♀ 42092
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am tempted to give you the advice to stop directing your thoughts to him, as I have been told; however I have been so bad at putting this into practice that I'm not sure I would give it convincingly!

FWIW, yes, maybe he is still closeted and trying to run from it. How sad to think he is just incapable of facing himself. But no matter what the real root issue here...it doesn't really change things. He is still a jerk and you are still better off without him.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But no matter what the real root issue here...it doesn't really change things. He is still a jerk and you are still better off without him.

Absolutely. Without question.
And I CERTAINLY agree efforts better spent elsewhere...
Just...curious.


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
Leia
♀ 42510
Member # 42510
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Um...yeah...I don't want to go into too many details because this story has no bearing on the A, but there is someone in the family who is young, and everyone knows that this person is probably gay--except for this person. The dates that this person has chosen has looked like they could belong to either gender. I know you want to figure out why, just to satisfy your own mind. I know when I looked at the list of NPD and other personality disorders, I could make a check mark by the symptoms on the list fitting STBXWH. It helps to have a reason in one's own mind, but like others have said, I wouldn't want to dwell on it too long.


"Somebody get this walking carpet out of my way." Princess Leia, Star Wars

Posts: 296 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Kansas
Nature_Girl
♀ 32554
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've had to develop tremendous mental discipline to choose not to think about this, that, or the other various theory that would divert too much of my energy, time and thoughts in wasted effort. I suggest you put this theory - which certainly is worth considering some day - into the "I'll think about that later" bucket.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - DIVORCED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJgjyDFfJuU

Posts: 10027 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally agree with y'all.
It's just something I've wanted to ask you since I joined SI but have been too afraid to speak the words out loud. Just because it would mean...it was all a lie.
I just realize how supportive and knowledgable you all are...and that it's time to disclose one of my bigger...secrets.


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
Pass
♂ 38122
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Klove,

After input from a lot of people on here, I asked my shrink if The Princess is NPD - she certainly fits everything I've read about it. The first thing he said was that there was no way of knowing without spending time with her to form a diagnosis. That part has nothing to do with your situation, of course.

Here's the part that relates: My shrink said, "Even if she did get a positive diagnosis, does that change how she has treated you? Does it change how you feel about yourself?"

If your STBX is gay, he still was just as shitty to you. If he is, maybe he is denying it, or doesn't even know it. But he still cheated. It doesn't change any of the facts about what happened.

But ... I totally understand. On DDay, I found out that The Princess was planning a threesome with her best (female) friend, and that friend's married boyfriend. I suppose that could mean it's possible that she is lesbian or bi - or it could have just been some cheap thrills with experimentation - but I don't care. We were married, so she wasn't supposed to screw anyone of any gender.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 2157 | Registered: Jan 2013
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

f your STBX is gay, he still was just as shitty to you. If he is, maybe he is denying it, or doesn't even know it. But he still cheated. It doesn't change any of the facts about what happened.

This I know 100%
Just wondered if anyone could relate...
12 yrs is a lonnnnng time to feel rejected sexually.


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
Pass
♂ 38122
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand. Sorry for missing the point!


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 2157 | Registered: Jan 2013
norabird
♀ 42092
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On the plus side....now you are free to start working your way toward a relationship where you will feel desired and wanted. I am very sorry you got so much rejection inside the marriage; whether it comes from his sexual identity or from some other cause, it has nothing to do with YOU and your deserving the desire of your partner. And it is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I'm glad you feel able to explore those secrets and your doubts and questioning around them here.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
norabird
♀ 42092
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ps....have you checked out any of the TMI BOB threads? Maybe it's time to do a little shopping for yourself after all this neglect!


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If I didn't have BOB I'd have killed someone by now!


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
Klove
♀ 42096
Member # 42096
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pass- you didnt miss the point and all of your points are well taken and absolutely right. It really DOESN'T matter. Just something came up today that reminded me I had never shared this with y'all...I just was curious about your take.


"But stand still is all I did
Love like ours is never fixed
Still I stuck around
I did behave
I saved you every time
I was a fool for love
I was a fool for love"

Posts: 294 | Registered: Jan 2014
Threnody
♀ 1558
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have had several members here whose WSs had homosexual relationships -- some experimenting, some bi, some full-out homosexual lifestyle stuff. There's an I Can Relate forum where they discuss some of these issues, and we have one member (at least) in New Beginnings who is coparenting with her ex, who has come out. I want to say it's cmego, but I can't recall exactly.

It has happened. You're not alone in this. The emotions can be conflicting, but as others have written it doesn't change the underlying principle of what choices he made in relating to YOU.

((( Klove )))

It's a lot to think about. It's a lot to absorb. It's good you're asking questions, but don't get too hung up on sorting it all out right away. Take your time. Sit with your thoughts now and then before going on to the next question. You'll find throughout this process that your anger and your need-to-know will ebb and flow. It's all part of recovery from betrayal -- no matter the reasons for it.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14040 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
ButterflyGirl
♀ 38377
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, March 30th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure how much this helps or relates, but I think my ex has some sexual dysfunction.. His dad was bi, but also a prostitute for both sides, a drug addict, abusive, and went to jail for raping a 5-year-old girl.. And my ex said his father abused him too, so there are definite issues..

I also don't think we had a lot of "normal" sex and that it was tied to negative emotion (or his drinking) a lot of the time. He also acted homophobic a lot and is deathly scared our kids will be gay, but I think it has to do with them being family.. One of my best friends for over 10 years is a gay guy, and my ex really never had a problem with him (and I'm perfectly fine with however my kids turn out)..

I probably watch too much Law and Order, SVU, but when they speak about rape not being about sex, but more about anger or rage or guilt or shame, that's what I think when I think about my ex.. It doesn't seem to be about the sex really.. Not that it was bad sex, but it certainly didn't feel like "making love" most of the time.. He was also extremely selfish about sex..

But yeah, as others have said, I'm done trying to figure him out. Now I figure me out. Why did I tolerate that? What are my needs? Was me being molested as a kid affecting me too? I want a normal, healthy relationship in the future. How do I get that?

It's true that we don't see things when we are in a relationship that other people do who are outside it. And now, as we separate from them, we are outside it too and can see things a bit more clearly. I think it's good you are figuring things out, but only to the extent that you use it to help yourself.

I begged my ex to get therapy when he admitted to the extent of abuse he went through as a child after D-Day, but he told me to never speak of it again. I can't help him anymore. He has to want to help himself (like an addict or alcoholic) if he is ever going to get better.. Right now, he doesn't, and I can't force him..

When the exes are really bad here, I think it's even more important that the betrayed partner gets therapy to heal from all the dysfunction and learn what normal is supposed to look like.

Sending you hugs Klove..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2695 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
HurtsButImOK
♀ 38865
Member # 38865
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went through the same thing Klove, wondering if x is gay but in denial. Much like your list there were all kinds of 'off' things throughout the relationship.

For me it was a process that was part of reassessing the whole relationship. Realising that my gut had been right about cheating made me wonder if my gut might also be right about his sexuality. Mainly though I think I was wanting a bit of an 'ahh ha' moment that I thought would help me understand why he betrayed me. In the end, even if he did come out, it wont change my life or decision to leave the relationship.

Keep focusing on your healing, you will get through this.


Me: Awesome - 35.... ummm, not anymore

"I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel". –Maya Angelou


Posts: 756 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Australia
realitybites
♀ 6908
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know, you could be on to something with your thoughts. Will you ever be able to prove it? I know how you feel and it would drive me crazy. Is he secretly bi? Who knows.

By the way I think it was brave of you to write this out, those moments of clarity where we look back and remember things and start writing them down is powerful and cleansing, good for you.

The hard digging for you however IMO only is getting to the root of why YOU stayed in this kind of marriage, not whether he did or did not do things. A BS always have that "feeling" of wasted years after an A and the pain starts in, but deep down inside you have to admit that you were in that marriage as well and "waiting" for him to do what? Something that never happened because he never changed, he just finally imploded the whole thing.

I don't mean this to make you feel bad....I just think the BS takes so much sh** in a marriage for so long that it becomes "normal" for them each and every year they sit in that same marriage. The waiting....the hope of change....I know, I have been there.

I would take this time, hopefully in IC to uncage your own anger and feelings and hopes and dreams and release yourself from hanging onto whatever or whoever your WS may or may not be.


Posts: 5698 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Kajem
♀ 36134
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your not alone in questioning whether or not he's subconsciously questioning his sexuality. I've wondered the same thing about XSO for a long time.

when they speak about rape not being about sex, but more about anger or rage or guilt or shame, that's what I think when I think about my ex.. It doesn't seem to be about the sex really.. Not that it was bad sex, but it certainly didn't feel like "making love" most of the time.. He was also extremely selfish about sex..

^^^^^^^ This is true in my case as well. I hate myself for settling.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5547 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
confused615
♀ 30826
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can understand why you would wonder..why you would want to know.

It would be another betrayal, though. Im not sure if you've thought about that yet. I've read your threads. I know you are trying to 180..but have slipped. I know you are still in a lot of pain.

As a BS who found out her WH was cheating with a man...I want to offer some advice.

Please stop. Stop wondering. You have a lot of other shit that needs your focus and attention right now. If you were to find out your stbxwh was/is gay or bisexual, it would set your healing back...way back. It is a huge betrayal. I mean, when you get married, the very least you should know about your husband is their sexuality..right? If you find out he is..and he was lying to you about who he was throughout the entire marriage...it will take whatever healing you have done and rip it to shreds.

I DO understand the "need to know." And Im not suggesting you never try to find out. But wait until you are stronger. Until you no longer feel love for him. And, hey, maybe by the time that happens you won't feel you need to know.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7916 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Faithful w/Love
♀ 33128
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KLove,
As I was reading your post, I actually wonder if something happened when he was young with Stepdad, meaning some type of abuse. And with dad being openly gay, he was most likely embarrassed about it and I wonder if kids made fun of him or he became self conscious regarding it. Maybe he felt in some way that sex made him feel disgusting because of his dad's personal preference of other men. Maybe he questions himself all the time because his dad is gay and he brought all that into his adult life instead of really excepting who his dad is and that it is okay.
I am not stating that he is not gay or may have thoughts about it. But, I would go to the I can relate and many should be able to help you.

HOWEVER, none of this lets him go and have an A. That is an excuse. HE needs help figuring out what the heck is going on with him and this you can not do.

It is actually sad that he takes it out on you knowing inside these are his demons to face and life will not get better if he doesn't get some help.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2887 | Registered: Aug 2011
Topic Posts: 20

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