I've been toying with the idea stbxwh might be questioning his sexuality and his LTEA might be an attempt to continue running from the truth.
- we have had a terrible sex life from early on when we were in our early-mid twenties. I used to chase him around the house begging for it. Last many years, sex might happen 4-5 times a year. This was always a big prob for me and he said it was for him too. But he was never interested. Blamed it on me and fighting.
- when we did have sex, it was never just fun sex it was always attached to some negative emotion for him- like guilt. We only really had sex when he was guilty- usually after a night of drinking and fighting with me.
- he drank a lot. All our friends wondered why he felt the need to always be the drunkest wherever we were.
- he has always been unhappy to depressed. Blamed it on me.
-when we were out, he NEVER looked at women, but I often felt like he looked at guys.
- some of our mutual friends have told me since our separation they wouldn't be surprised if...
-he abhors porn. Thinks it's embarrassing. Thinks it's disgusting. Any type.
-he is obsessed with his looks and looking trendy. Always. Not related to A.
-his Dad is gay (probably means nothing- but theories if genetics)
-whenever there is anything about anti-gay stuff in a movie or on tv, he cries. When we first heard song "same love" he bawled.
- the AP is ugly. Many have said she "looks like a teen boy".
Not to toot my own horn, but people say Im attractive and a million more times than her.
-on the tape recording of them, he was a bit aloof and she was throwing herself at him. I *think* she really was the "force" behind the A. She loves him and wasn't going to give up. I blame him- yes- but I do not feel he pursued her.
- he is so. Fucking. Angry. About everything. All the time. Anger like "something else is up here because who is THIS angry?"
- when we talk about "what if our kid was gay?" and I talk about it making zero difference to me - he cries...
- his stepdad is a redneck asshole who, when stbxwh was 15, told him to stop listening to such "homo" music and man up. Basically told him he WOULD go into
Business, make a bunch of money, get a wife. Stbxwh wanted to travel- but did everything to fit the mold stepfather laid out.
- he swears, SWEARS there was no PA. This one I'm careful about because there could be lots of reasons to lie about it...
He's certainly lied about a lot.
- I asked him once if he was gay and he lost. His. Shit. I asked him very lovingly after A was all out in the open between NC and just told him he seemed really lost, unhappy, troubled... He was furious and brought it up 3-4 times in MC after as "the biggest insult." And said "Im not gay."
Anyway- I have thought this for years waaaaay before A happened. I thought for a long time he had a crush on his male best friend.
Just wondering if anyone has experience with this? I know- it really doesn't matter at this point and it's energy into figuring him out that really should be directed elsewhere. Just wondering your thoughts...
[This message edited by Klove at 7:21 PM, March 30th (Sunday)]
FWIW, yes, maybe he is still closeted and trying to run from it. How sad to think he is just incapable of facing himself. But no matter what the real root issue here...it doesn't really change things. He is still a jerk and you are still better off without him.
But no matter what the real root issue here...it doesn't really change things. He is still a jerk and you are still better off without him.
Absolutely. Without question.
And I CERTAINLY agree efforts better spent elsewhere...
After input from a lot of people on here, I asked my shrink if The Princess is NPD - she certainly fits everything I've read about it. The first thing he said was that there was no way of knowing without spending time with her to form a diagnosis. That part has nothing to do with your situation, of course.
Here's the part that relates: My shrink said, "Even if she did get a positive diagnosis, does that change how she has treated you? Does it change how you feel about yourself?"
If your STBX is gay, he still was just as shitty to you. If he is, maybe he is denying it, or doesn't even know it. But he still cheated. It doesn't change any of the facts about what happened.
But ... I totally understand. On DDay, I found out that The Princess was planning a threesome with her best (female) friend, and that friend's married boyfriend. I suppose that could mean it's possible that she is lesbian or bi - or it could have just been some cheap thrills with experimentation - but I don't care. We were married, so she wasn't supposed to screw anyone of any gender.
The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous!
f your STBX is gay, he still was just as shitty to you. If he is, maybe he is denying it, or doesn't even know it. But he still cheated. It doesn't change any of the facts about what happened.
This I know 100%
Just wondered if anyone could relate...
12 yrs is a lonnnnng time to feel rejected sexually.
It has happened. You're not alone in this. The emotions can be conflicting, but as others have written it doesn't change the underlying principle of what choices he made in relating to YOU.
((( Klove )))
It's a lot to think about. It's a lot to absorb. It's good you're asking questions, but don't get too hung up on sorting it all out right away. Take your time. Sit with your thoughts now and then before going on to the next question. You'll find throughout this process that your anger and your need-to-know will ebb and flow. It's all part of recovery from betrayal -- no matter the reasons for it.
I also don't think we had a lot of "normal" sex and that it was tied to negative emotion (or his drinking) a lot of the time. He also acted homophobic a lot and is deathly scared our kids will be gay, but I think it has to do with them being family.. One of my best friends for over 10 years is a gay guy, and my ex really never had a problem with him (and I'm perfectly fine with however my kids turn out)..
I probably watch too much Law and Order, SVU, but when they speak about rape not being about sex, but more about anger or rage or guilt or shame, that's what I think when I think about my ex.. It doesn't seem to be about the sex really.. Not that it was bad sex, but it certainly didn't feel like "making love" most of the time.. He was also extremely selfish about sex..
But yeah, as others have said, I'm done trying to figure him out. Now I figure me out. Why did I tolerate that? What are my needs? Was me being molested as a kid affecting me too? I want a normal, healthy relationship in the future. How do I get that?
It's true that we don't see things when we are in a relationship that other people do who are outside it. And now, as we separate from them, we are outside it too and can see things a bit more clearly. I think it's good you are figuring things out, but only to the extent that you use it to help yourself.
I begged my ex to get therapy when he admitted to the extent of abuse he went through as a child after D-Day, but he told me to never speak of it again. I can't help him anymore. He has to want to help himself (like an addict or alcoholic) if he is ever going to get better.. Right now, he doesn't, and I can't force him..
When the exes are really bad here, I think it's even more important that the betrayed partner gets therapy to heal from all the dysfunction and learn what normal is supposed to look like.
Sending you hugs Klove..
For me it was a process that was part of reassessing the whole relationship. Realising that my gut had been right about cheating made me wonder if my gut might also be right about his sexuality. Mainly though I think I was wanting a bit of an 'ahh ha' moment that I thought would help me understand why he betrayed me. In the end, even if he did come out, it wont change my life or decision to leave the relationship.
Keep focusing on your healing, you will get through this.
"I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel". –Maya Angelou
By the way I think it was brave of you to write this out, those moments of clarity where we look back and remember things and start writing them down is powerful and cleansing, good for you.
The hard digging for you however IMO only is getting to the root of why YOU stayed in this kind of marriage, not whether he did or did not do things. A BS always have that "feeling" of wasted years after an A and the pain starts in, but deep down inside you have to admit that you were in that marriage as well and "waiting" for him to do what? Something that never happened because he never changed, he just finally imploded the whole thing.
I don't mean this to make you feel bad....I just think the BS takes so much sh** in a marriage for so long that it becomes "normal" for them each and every year they sit in that same marriage. The waiting....the hope of change....I know, I have been there.
I would take this time, hopefully in IC to uncage your own anger and feelings and hopes and dreams and release yourself from hanging onto whatever or whoever your WS may or may not be.
when they speak about rape not being about sex, but more about anger or rage or guilt or shame, that's what I think when I think about my ex.. It doesn't seem to be about the sex really.. Not that it was bad sex, but it certainly didn't feel like "making love" most of the time.. He was also extremely selfish about sex..
^^^^^^^ This is true in my case as well. I hate myself for settling.
It would be another betrayal, though. Im not sure if you've thought about that yet. I've read your threads. I know you are trying to 180..but have slipped. I know you are still in a lot of pain.
As a BS who found out her WH was cheating with a man...I want to offer some advice.
Please stop. Stop wondering. You have a lot of other shit that needs your focus and attention right now. If you were to find out your stbxwh was/is gay or bisexual, it would set your healing back...way back. It is a huge betrayal. I mean, when you get married, the very least you should know about your husband is their sexuality..right? If you find out he is..and he was lying to you about who he was throughout the entire marriage...it will take whatever healing you have done and rip it to shreds.
I DO understand the "need to know." And Im not suggesting you never try to find out. But wait until you are stronger. Until you no longer feel love for him. And, hey, maybe by the time that happens you won't feel you need to know.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
HOWEVER, none of this lets him go and have an A. That is an excuse. HE needs help figuring out what the heck is going on with him and this you can not do.
It is actually sad that he takes it out on you knowing inside these are his demons to face and life will not get better if he doesn't get some help.
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"