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alleyk posted 4/1/2014 03:37 AM

I couldn't take it anymore, and I've been contacting them and asking their side of the story. Bad move?

I've been given info that I already suspected. But the worst part is, in the last MC session I mentioned that I knew there was more that one woman, and I wanted everything out in the open on the table, and at a certain point my WH said to the counselor that the AP (i knew about) was the only woman he had sex with since we've been together. I now have confirmation from 2 other women that he slept with. What to f'ing do????

norabird posted 4/1/2014 11:07 AM

I have thought about doing this so much. we aren't in R though so I try to tell myself there's no point.

In your case, I understand why you have contacted them--it's because you knew you only had the partial truth. And I think it's important you know that he has hid more from you.

But if he can't tell you the whole truth...is he worth trying with? At the very least institute the 180, and see a lawyer. Trust and honesty are the bedrocks of R (I think they are motivated by remorse) and you don't have them.

kiki1 posted 4/1/2014 11:28 AM

Hugs AlleyK, that sucks. It was what i got too, initially, half truths. Its gotten better, but I'm thinking he'll never admit to anything that i dont have some clue about. I just decided that eventually I had enough truth, more was only going to hurt more. If i was going to try with him again, I would do that with knowledge that he hadnt been faithful, probably most of our 23 yr. marriage. I'm not suggesting you do that, I'm only telling you that's the point i got too. As long as he was willing to put the effort in to improve our lives from what they were, I would let the past stay in the past. After all this wretchedness and 2 ow, it didnt matter anymore. However, i dont feel very fulfilled either, so my choice was probably not the best. Just the only way i could make peace with it.

I wouldnt trust the ow to tell me the truth. They would no doubt not even talk with me. Your absolutely sure you got the truth?

muddled posted 4/1/2014 12:28 PM

I understand why you would contact the OW especially if there is denial, minimizing, or TT. If the WS wants a R then we need the facts to make our decision if we want to R. IMHO, it’s sort of like gathering the facts and presenting them to the jury to decide.

alleyk posted 4/1/2014 12:52 PM

kiki1- I'm sure I got the truth. One girl (who didn't seem very smart) I got to confirm they slept together by mentioning WS had been with another girl who had an STD, so I asked if she used protection and she said 'yes of course'. Guess I didn't really care about the details of their relationship, she was obviously a booty call, I just wanted confirmation they had sex since my WS said he only slept with one person. She even said the last time they saw each other they got into an argument, that they were at a dive bar and he wanted to go mess around, and she wanted to actually hang out and get to know him as a person instead of a booty call (her words). It was quite sad, really.

As a backdrop I have to say that during this time we were having issues with each other and the marriage, and I wasn't being nice to him at all, nor were we intimate for some time. I have said before I accept my half and how I contributed to the marriage break down. (Of course that does not excuse him stepping out, pursuing other women, etc.)

When we had dday and I did figure out he was contacting other OW(plural) besides the main OW, I sort of made a conscious decision (like you) that it was now in the past and if I was going to R with him then I would have to move forward with that knowledge regardless of details. I guess I just found it irritating that he would deny any OW(plural) besides the one when I was asking him to be honest. I think he is scared if I knew the totality of his misdeeds I would leave him, or he is scared to reveal his 'true self'... ??

norabird- I'm not sure if he's worth trying/fighting for! Honestly I go back and forth. I agreed to R, and I have seen many positive changes in him, coupled with setbacks like lies here and there. I told myself I would give it a year to see what kind of person he really, truly is.

confused615 posted 4/1/2014 13:38 PM

So he doesn't know you know about the two other women he had sex with? He still maintains it's "only" one?

If he is telling you it was one woman, and you now know it was at least 3, then this is not just a detail. This is necessary information he has purposely withheld from you. He is still lying. As long as he is lying, regardless of the reason, he is not R material.

I contacted AP the day after dday. It was one of the best things I did. I got the truth. FWH had lied to me..and only told me the truth once he realized I had contacted AP. AP told me things FWH never would have told me.

alleyk posted 4/1/2014 23:09 PM

confused615 - nope, he doesn't know I contacted the other women and know details. He knows I have a general idea, that's all.

I'm really stuck at the fact that he told our MC that he only had sex with one other woman. When he said that I said right away that I don't believe him. I also mentioned how on dday he told me (and OW1) that he's a compulsive liar. I think this is the truth! So - what to do with a person like that??

It's a biggie, I know. One that I don't want to bring up (to my WH) until our next counseling session with the therapist. I want a third party to hear and witness his reaction/response. I don't know what that's going to bring me, perhaps some sort of clarity?

strengthandhope posted 4/1/2014 23:20 PM

What you nees is remorse and transparency. Until that happens and you can feels safe without lies to your questions. ..there will be no true R. I would not be working with my husband especially after 4 DDs unless I knew he was ready for the real work it is going to take. I helped hin rugsweep in the past. It is not going to happen again. I cannot even say we are in R yet because he is SA and we are very early on in this and we have our lives so inter tangled. Good luck I hope things get easier for you.

sunvalley posted 4/1/2014 23:32 PM

I contacted the OWomen (plural as well) because I was initially told back in July that it was only 1 OW and it had ended in 2012. After 2m of TTs from him, he finally admitted there were 3 additional OW (2 of which were still going on until July when he admitted to the 1st) plus more online that he never met in person. Even after he admitted to all of them, and told me he had ended them all in July when he came clean about the 1, the TTs from him continued in regards to the details. I contacted each of the OW because I didn't trust I was getting the truth out of him and he was still very scared of losing me so he thought he was 'protecting' me by not giving me the details I needed. While I found out the information I was looking for from them, there are pros and cons to both sides. These OW have no emotional concern for your wellbeing and will manipulate the truths for their own purposes as well - unless they didn't know he was married, and especially if they thought they loved him, they are likely to more than willingly give you the details you are looking for (and more!) but at a cost to you and some of them can be quite spiteful and selfish as I discovered...even the ones I thought I dealt with in a mature adult manner still said things that sit with me and aren't really relevant or necessary for my recovery...ie more damage than good. I still suffer PTSD from the way my situation unfolded and part of that comes from how it all unfolded. We are now 8m in R and it has been a rollercoaster, but I think the bottom line is if you are going to contact them for the details, get the information you need and get out, your esteem is likely low from all of this and they can make it even lower. Take what they tell you with a grain of salt, because they aren't and never have been looking out for your best interests. Once you have the information you need cut all ties to them, so you don't feel any need to contact them further. Now that I know the whole story in my case, I wish that he was the one who told me those additional details, but in his state of mind at the time I'm not sure he would ever have had the guts....his healing and getting help only came once I had most of the details from the OW and had kicked him out.

shygirl07 posted 4/1/2014 23:43 PM

Ive contacted OW and have had decent luck. The last OW is the OW the POS left me for .. his ex lol. . I didn't insult her for destroying us , I was subjective and told her hes a dirt bag cheater POS liar,etc. THings she knows she dated him before I dated him. She gave me an apology which was as good as nothing... long story short I would do it.... it might give some closure...

kiki1 posted 4/3/2014 08:24 AM

Well, AlleyK, i suppose the best you can do now is put it out there at your next MC appt. that you know what you know.

I will tell you, it took my wh over 2 yrs. to acknowledge ow #1. Once that occurred, all holds were off, the dam broke and it was easier for him to be honest.

i know why he did it, why it took him so long. He was ashamed of who he was, what he had done. My reaction to this new revelation was extreme grief. I did the best i could to be calm, in order for him to be honest, but a new dday is a new dday and it hurts.

Good Luck, hugs

LovelyDaffodils posted 4/5/2014 16:15 PM

I go back and forth whether to contact the one name I have or not. I'm quite sure she is the one, though WH has not given me the name. I found it in his contact list on DDay, and now it and some others are not there. But this one's first (not common) name was also in the file name of now deleted files/pics. I had the 1st and last name from my Dday list and phone number. There are also those other names he deleted?

Alleyk how did you know of these OW and were sure they were involved? Did he tell you? How does that conversation with OW go? What is the right thing to say that will get the closest to the truth answers.

I have no desire to talk to these OW, but I need answers. He is not giving names. He has promised to give full disclosure when he knows he can do it all at once so this will be our last DDay. I just want something that tells me I'm getting all the truth when he does disclose.

LovelyDaffodils posted 4/5/2014 16:19 PM

Also, alleyk, like you, I told the MC the first time we went I didn't believe him. So next time back when told I found out more stuff, she was not surprised! So the session focused more on him giving full disclosure and ways to ask questions than my emotional issues.

alleyk posted 4/5/2014 17:20 PM

((LovelyDaffodils)) It really started with his cell phone records. Since I pay the bills and handle all our business, once I started to get that feeling in my gut I was checking them. At first my blind trust told me it was some guy friend, but then there was a number that was being texted to/called excessively, and at late/early morning hours. Couldn't figure out who it was at first, and WH changed his phone passcode. Finally I did some work on Google and found a name matched with the number, then found her on his Facebook and Instagram. But no proof of an affair, so I had to wait until I found out his phone passcode to check his texts (there were only a few he had not deleted already, but enough to provide proof)... hence DDay #1.

Looking back on his phone records after that, there were a few numbers he was calling at 1-3am etc., so I spend days upon days going over every single number to get names. Some were still contacts in his phone. A few of those I also found were his 'friends' on Facebook. The ones I couldn't find out I used google, you can also search Facebook with phone numbers, if the person has a number in their account. Also, privacystar.com/reverse-lookup is a great tool and sometimes will give you the phone owner's name.

Soon after Dday1 I told him I knew there were other women too, but he avoided talking about it saying nothing had rose to the extent of this OW. And he pretty much deleted all messages on all platforms, so I had no solid proof of anything with anyone else, besides a few cryptic emails (which he has also since deleted). I knew my only option was to contact them, but even then, would they tell me the truth? Plus, after DDay1 where I called the OW from his phone and had an extensive conversation with her (and WH in front of me), I wasn't sure I needed or wanted to go through that trauma once again. After all, I knew there were others, what would be the worst thing to hear that I did not already suspect?

But - at a certain point (really it was after he told MC that there was only this 'one' OW) I needed to know. Especially because I wanted to know if he was still lying! (Yes)

The dumb girl I spoke, who was also all over his cell phone records, of I contacted via messaging on FB. (He had actually already blocked her, and 5 other girls, so that was a clue!). I told her that I see she's friends with my H and we should be friends too. She said she wasn't, and I told her I knew, that he told me. I sort of pretended to be nice, and just asked questions in a way that gave me the answers I was looking for (which was did they sleep together). Really, I don't know what it's given me at this point, besides confirmation that my WH is still lying to me (maybe trying to rugsweep, or protect me, whatever what does it matter). The point is, when I was going through a rough time emotionally, severely stressed out, and in another town looking for a job and a place for us to live, he was out getting drunk, hitting on and sleeping with multiple women. The question for me (which I am trying to decide) is, is this how he is as a person and has always been, and hence will continue to be? Or was this more of an isolated situation where our marriage was breaking down? (Still no excuse to have affairs!)

Anyway, the right thing to say to the OW - guess thats hard to say, because it depends on what info you want, and what kind of person they are/where they stand. The initial OW seemed very apologetic and told me the story pretty straight up. But even though she was severely lied to (he said we were separated and divorcing) she would take him back in an instant, so I would never trust her or speak with her ever again. OW2, she was a straight up booty call, and she figured it out at a certain point, and I think had more respect in herself that OW1 (he also told her we were divorcing). Stupid WH wouldn't have the first clue how to file for S or D, let alone handle his business affairs or make it on his own, really. He a manchild that I've been taking care of for 10 years. I think if I did leave him he would just find one of these other women to move in with and take care of like I do. And since he's a musician there is a tons of groupie types that will jump at it...

LovelyDaffodils posted 4/5/2014 17:51 PM

What is really strange with mine is that NONE of these names I can find on facebook. Not even by number search. We also have no phone records-straight talk phones-unlimited for a monthly rate charge to a cc. Prevous phone WH during the affair, he smashed, to be sure sensitive work info would not be hacked from it-yeah sure....

I'm tempted to send a text, but not sure she would be truthful. The A lasted 8 months. He said he told her he was single, gave her a false name. So when her gut told him he was married, she ended the PA. But, she still would contact him now and then over nothing.... So even if she felt it was wrong, she didn't completely go NC. My gut doesn't believe how they met-he swears not a hook up site, but a casual friend from work knew her. But also knew he was married, so wtf?!! I just want to know if that is it, and if the number of times he says they met is true. Or if she isn't even the one in the pictures I found -just body parts-

I really think he is "behaving" now, but until I get full truth about the last 5 years, I'm in limbo...

So alleyk, you have your proof that he is still lying. I would take the info to the MC, see how he talks his way out of it. And as far as the marriage breakdown do to stress-There are 2,ok, 3 choices he had. 1. Help you deal with the stress, be caring, supportive. 2. Let you know he wanted to D, or 3 cheat... So, right, no excuse..

I think they have to do some work to show whether they really still are that person or not. But first HONESTY! GOOD LUCK