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False R Concerns

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KBeguile posted 4/2/2014 19:21 PM

Because of the nature of my initial infidelity, Heart discovering my return to porn viewing has caused her to return to the emotional roller coaster.

While I'm grateful to be given another chance because of the progress and changes I managed to make of myself over the last year, I'm terribly worried about Heart and her recovery.

I know I can't control her healing. Is there anything I can do, in addition to helping her, taking care of her, taking care of the house, etc.? Am I looking at the same time table for recovery as before? Have my thoughtless actions returned us to Square One?

Thanks. Personal stories appreciated.

rachelc posted 4/2/2014 19:43 PM

Can she come here and post? Would that help?

Are you in a recovery program K?

ThoughtIKnewYa posted 4/2/2014 19:45 PM

Well, it's another d-day for her. You may not view it that way, but I'm sure she probably does. All of the behavioral changes were, unfortunately, wiped out by that act. Once again, you didn't consider her or her feelings, only yourself and attempting to ease your discomfort. She was sick and counting on you to help her through it, then you were looking at porn. It's a kick in the teeth, for sure!

Ask her if she'd be willing to do the partner's program at RN. Not for YOU, but for her.

KBeguile posted 4/2/2014 20:54 PM

rachelc:

Can she come here and post? Would that help?

She already does, on occasion. I do not know if it would help her, but I wish that she would derive help from someone or something.

Are you in a recovery program K?

Just started on RecoveryNation, per ThoughtIKnewYa's suggestion.

ThoughtIKnewYa:

Well, it's another d-day for her. You may not view it that way, but I'm sure she probably does. All of the behavioral changes were, unfortunately, wiped out by that act. Once again, you didn't consider her or her feelings, only yourself and attempting to ease your discomfort. She was sick and counting on you to help her through it, then you were looking at porn. It's a kick in the teeth, for sure!

Ask her if she'd be willing to do the partner's program at RN. Not for YOU, but for her.

It is another D-Day. And the pain is so tangible I feel like I could cut it with a knife. Hell, a dull pair of safety scissors.

She's already looked/looking into the partner's program at RN. I'm currently reading through Lesson 1 and preparing to respond to the questions/exercises at the end.

My own solo attempts failed because it was an attempt to externally motivate myself. This time I have internal reasons to want to change that I didn't have before. I'm much more hopeful for success this time.

painfulpast posted 4/2/2014 21:34 PM

Curiously, you mention false R. Can you explain that in this context?

Yes, it is another DDay, but not all DDays are equal. A new lover is very different than TT may be depending on TT.

What matters most is the pain the BS feels. That is the real judge of how deep the new wound is. Only he/she can give that, and from your words, the pain is very deep.

I'm not certain what RN is, but please don't stop showing your remorse and your regret at this new set of lies. That is what you can do now, and you must be consistent. Actions speak much louder than words do, so please back up your words with your actions.

(((((hugs)))))

william posted 4/3/2014 06:43 AM

deleted, im a BS and shouldnt have posted here. im sorry.

[This message edited by william at 6:43 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

Aubrie posted 4/3/2014 10:58 AM

My own solo attempts failed because it was an attempt to externally motivate myself. This time I have internal reasons to want to change that I didn't have before. I'm much more hopeful for success this time.
Keep in mind while you're hopeful for success, Heart just lost all hope. The clock has been reset. To her, you may or may not "get it". Crap just got really real. This could be the epic "make or break". Kwim?

Quit trying on your own. Don't WebMD your way thru this. Reach out and get the help/IC/whatever you need.

nogoodap1 posted 4/3/2014 12:31 PM

If you haven't read it I would highly recommend "every mans battle" it's a very good book on dealing with porn and sexual infidelity. Although it biased on religion it still helps. I've been sober from porn and masturbaition for about a year. And I feel like I'm healthier and happier and wish I would have done it sooner.

20WrongsVs1 posted 4/3/2014 14:45 PM

This time I have internal reasons to want to change that I didn't have before

Do tell.

gahurts posted 4/3/2014 19:41 PM

KBeguile

I read your posts frequently. I am really pulling for you and Heart and want to see you fully R'ed.

Heart discovering my return to porn viewing has caused her to return to the emotional roller coaster

Is there anything I can do, in addition to helping her, taking care of her, taking care of the house, etc.?

Dude, you answered your own question. Stay away from the porn. Heart should be your only focus for anything sexual, sensual or any external validation involving a woman. She has to be the only woman you look at sexually. In her mind, she thinks you are comparing her to those other women and she has to compete against them. Big time D-day for her.

There are a couple of threads by Blakesteele (I posted a couple of times on one of them) with detailed discussions on porn usage. I recommend you read these and the book mentioned by the previous poster.

Hang in there K. This is a long ride but I know you are working hard.

[This message edited by gahurts at 7:42 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

authenticnow posted 4/3/2014 20:09 PM

deleted, im a BS and shouldnt have posted here. im sorry.
william, BSs are allowed to post in the wayward forum, as long as there is no stop sign and it's within the forum description.

sadone29 posted 4/4/2014 09:12 AM

KBeguile, can you explain what a return to porn means? Was it just once or is it an every day kind of thing? Is it a slip or relapse?

Do you and Heart have strict boundaries in place when something like this happens? Maybe the two of you can set up some consequences for both slips and relapses.

For example, maybe a slip would have the consequence of her detaching for x number of days with both of you sleeping separately while you worked on yourself and figured out why the slip happened.

A relapse might have you leave the house until you've been porn free for a certain amount of time and she feels safe again.

Just a thought. I hope you both work through this!

KBeguile posted 4/4/2014 19:47 PM

painfulpast said:

Curiously, you mention false R. Can you explain that in this context?

In this context, it would be False R Without Intent? I suppose. It wasn't my intention to break R -- I was weak and succumbed to looking at pornography. Even without anything else, it was a breach of our R agreement, so it constitutes False R.

Yes, it is another DDay, but not all DDays are equal. A new lover is very different than TT may be depending on TT.

What matters most is the pain the BS feels. That is the real judge of how deep the new wound is. Only he/she can give that, and from your words, the pain is very deep.

The pain is deep. It extends beyond the time I've known her, and is a very sore subject. I feel terrible for hurting her in the way that I have, which is why I'm fighting even harder to try and short-circuit my thought process this time.

I'm not certain what RN is, but please don't stop showing your remorse and your regret at this new set of lies. That is what you can do now, and you must be consistent. Actions speak much louder than words do, so please back up your words with your actions.

(((((hugs)))))

RecoveryNation.com, which was suggested in my other thread. I've gone through the first lesson already, and I'm eager to work further. I think I will learn a lot of good material from them. Even if it's something I already thought I knew, reinforcement doesn't hurt, and a new presentation of the subject material just may spark a hidden truth about myself and my situation of which I wasn't previously aware.


Aubrie said:

Keep in mind while you're hopeful for success, Heart just lost all hope. The clock has been reset. To her, you may or may not "get it". Crap just got really real. This could be the epic "make or break". Kwim?

All too well. The only reason I'm even approaching another chance in this arena is because she has seen and valued my progress toward being a better father for DS and a better home caretaker.

Quit trying on your own. Don't WebMD your way thru this. Reach out and get the help/IC/whatever you need.

Nope. Absolutely no "WebMD"ing it. I'm working through RecoveryNation.com, and I have the option to seek active coaching to keep me honest. Depending on the cost, I will probably enlist the help of a personal coach in the matter.


nogoodap1 said:

If you haven't read it I would highly recommend "every mans battle" it's a very good book on dealing with porn and sexual infidelity. Although it biased on religion it still helps. I've been sober from porn and masturbaition for about a year. And I feel like I'm healthier and happier and wish I would have done it sooner.

I'm not certain if you're aware of my personal stance on religion, but thank you for the consideration, both in the book and in the religious context.

When I gave up masturbation, I achieved one level of 'happier and healthier,' and I'm noticing an even greater difference now that I've given up the porn altogether.


20WrongsVs1 said:

Do tell.

Like I said prior to this, I've noticed my creativity and engagement with the people in my life is way better without the influence porn had on my life. Porn, as I have noticed, is the equivalent to eating junk food when on a diet: it might give you some initial happiness, but you pay for it much more later.

Thus, my creativity is my 'anti-drug'.

gahurts said:

I read your posts frequently. I am really pulling for you and Heart and want to see you fully R'ed.

Thank you. I know it sounds superficially silly, but I want to see us R'ed, too. I'm glad that you're pulling for us. I need all the help I can get.

Dude, you answered your own question. Stay away from the porn. Heart should be your only focus for anything sexual, sensual or any external validation involving a woman. She has to be the only woman you look at sexually. In her mind, she thinks you are comparing her to those other women and she has to compete against them. Big time D-day for her.


Well, it sounds so simple when you put it that way ... which is why I'm becoming more convinced that there is/was/will be(?) a part of me that - until I fill the emotional void that carries over from my childhood with something more fulfilling and practical to my current life - will succumb to pornography every time, if given half a chance ... an 'addiction' to it.

The important thing I've realized is that it isn't simply 'white knuckling' it (or, as Aubrie put it earlier, 'WebMDing it') that will solve the problem. RecoveryNation (and other places) have confirmed that what needs to happen is that I need to replace the bad habit with something much more meaningful and productive. In my case, I'm going to keep a sketchbook or scrap paper near me at all times, and when I feel an urge, I'm going to replace it with a pencil sketch. In time, my creative side should supplant my emotional void.

There are a couple of threads by Blakesteele (I posted a couple of times on one of them) with detailed discussions on porn usage. I recommend you read these and the book mentioned by the previous poster.

I'll definitely be looking for those. Thank you for the heads up!

Hang in there K. This is a long ride but I know you are working hard.

It's a labor of love. I don't do this because I feel like I 'owe it' to anyone, nor do I do it simply because I feel like I need to go through the motions because it's what others have done. I do this hard work because of my love for Heart and my hatred for the things I've done to her.


sadone29 said:

KBeguile, can you explain what a return to porn means? Was it just once or is it an every day kind of thing? Is it a slip or relapse?

It certainly wasn't an 'every day' thing, and it was nothing compared to the copious usage of porn during my As. Still, I would have to consider it a 'relapse,' simply because it wasn't something I was consciously choosing to spend my time doing. I realized, after the fact, that what I was essentially doing was (1) giving myself permission I didn't have (2) to fill spaces of boredom with a familiar activity that required very little personal investment to accomplish. Even without the thrills it used to bring me, it was still providing a kind of outlet that I didn't need in my life, and I'm glad that I stopped.

Do you and Heart have strict boundaries in place when something like this happens? Maybe the two of you can set up some consequences for both slips and relapses.

For example, maybe a slip would have the consequence of her detaching for x number of days with both of you sleeping separately while you worked on yourself and figured out why the slip happened.

A relapse might have you leave the house until you've been porn free for a certain amount of time and she feels safe again.

Just a thought. I hope you both work through this!

Thank you for the suggestion.

We have had an ongoing boundary about this, but because I wasn't deriving sexual pleasure from it, I (mistakenly) figured it was safe and gave myself permission to view it. This breached boundaries, led to hiding my activities from her, and many other bad behaviors, even though the bad behavior I thought was the true root of the problem had been curtailed.

The problem with choosing something purely external -- 'if you do [a], [b] happens' -- is that it makes it much more likely to relapse because that kind of thinking doesn't really stick around. And when it DOES stick around, it tends to beat you down, rather than propping you up.

The best bet is to find something internal. In my case, it's the fact that my creativity greatly suffers when I consume that kind of garbage.

--

william, I specifically removed the Stop Sign so that I could hear what BSes have to say. I like hearing input from everyone ... especially when it's either unflattering or really drives home a particular point I may not be considering. Don't silence yourself! You might have something to contribute!

sadone29 posted 4/4/2014 20:46 PM

I totally get what you're saying. I was suggesting the boundaries more for Heart's sake (since I come from that point of view, that's who I tend to think of first, sorry!). It's more to help her protect herself during relapses.

But finding that internal thing you speak of is essential. And you need it no matter what or when, I'm starting to see. H was just talking about how he has been relaxing on his recovery because our relationship has been going so well lately. And that's not a good thing. He's been slipping back to a few old habits because of that (not porn, but it could easily lead down that road). The good thing is that he's catching it faster now and gets back on track.

Try to remember the good things too. Most people don't choose to delve this deep. Hard work but worth it.

gahurts posted 4/5/2014 15:22 PM

Well, it sounds so simple when you put it that wayWell, it sounds so simple when you put it that way

No K. I know it's not simple. I struggled with this for most of my adult life. After D-day, looking at porn made me sick to my stomach and emotionally distraught. But slowly it became ok again. I know exactly what you are talking about. It wasn't until I started dating GF that I lost all interest in porn and now I will never go back. Just watching a movie with the potential of nudity in it makes me anxious now.

You need to find something that means more to you than the porn so that you can be whole for your wife.

KBeguile posted 4/7/2014 20:49 PM

gahurts said:

You need to find something that means more to you than the porn so that you can be whole for your wife.

I have, I think. I have always been a creative person, and not having that spark of creativity (ability to tell stories well, draw, etc.) - which I've noticed tends to dull when I am exposed to porn - definitely disheartens me. It also makes me a really disinterested and shitty role-player.

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