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Do you give ultimatums?

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plainpain posted 4/5/2014 00:03 AM

Wondering about this, a year into R. I wonder what he would do if he bumped into OW/OC on the street. I want to give him an ultimatum... "If you speak to her, I am leaving". With an OC it is different than just OW. I know him, and he couldn't just turn and run. So, what is the line? What is the 'deal breaker', and does he need to know what it is? Do I say, "if you ever look at porn again, I am leaving?" Maybe I won't leave... but I will die inside. Do I have to spell that out?

I have my 'deal breakers'... just wondering if there is value in articulating them at this point? He is a model FWH... but I have fear still, of ever going through this pain and humiliation again.

Wodnships posted 4/5/2014 00:07 AM

My wife knows in no uncertain terms if she ever communicants with the OM in any way again it is over between us. I even told her I'd leave if he were on fire in the street and she peed on him to put it out.

plainpain posted 4/5/2014 00:16 AM

I guess I worry he would have a 2 minute conversation with her and then not tell me about it, fearing i would leave. I'd rather he told me about it, clearly. But am I going to leave if he has a 2 minute conversation with her on the street? No. If he lies to me about it? Yes. 100%. But am I giving him licence to do it as long as he tells me after?

Tearsoflove posted 4/5/2014 00:22 AM

I don't call them ultimatums, I call them boundaries for me to remain in a safe marriage.

The first is no contact with OW.

The second is no friendships with women.

He said he should be able to have friends and that I shouldn't be able to pick his friends. I said "I'm not picking your friends. You can have any friends you want. You just can't have female friends and also be married to me. You get to choose: the friendships or the marriage. You've already proven you have terrible boundaries with women and I can't stay in a marriage where I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe with you having female friendships anymore. You get to choose what's more important to you."

Whether you call them ultimatums or boundaries, you have to be prepared to follow through with the consequence of him not choosing what you hope for. My consequence was the end of the marriage and I was fully prepared to end it. You don't get third chances with me.

Wodnships posted 4/5/2014 00:29 AM

Plainpain,

Only you know what is right for you. If you are fine with casual conversation if he sees her out and about there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are just settling for that because you think it's better then him lying to you, that's no way to live.

The biggest thing is like Tears said if you are going to set a rule you have to be willing to follow through.

plainpain posted 4/5/2014 00:48 AM

I worry that I don't even know for sure what a deal breaker is for me any more. Sometimes I think using all the hot water should be a deal breaker. Any thoughtless, careless act of selfishness that doesn't factor in the needs of anyone else.

Zayda1 posted 4/5/2014 06:48 AM

WH is very aware that if he has another affair or speaks to OW again I will leave. I have also told myself that I will leave knowing I did everything I could to save this marriage. If he acts out again it's on him and I will not shoulder any blame for any subsequent affair.

deena04 posted 4/5/2014 07:04 AM

You asked so here goes:
No female friends.
No flirting and I mean none.
No porn and / or nude pics of pornstars.
No lying to me.
No defensiveness when I ask questions.
My list goes on and he knows where our doors are if he chooses not to follow them.

refuz2bavictim posted 4/5/2014 07:13 AM

I worry that I don't even know for sure what a deal breaker is for me any more.

You can set boundaries that have open ended consequences if you are not sure how you feel. Like Tearsoflove, I don't see these as ultimatums, but as boundaries for my own protection. My reactions to his actions are not designed to act AGAINST him but in PROTECTION of me.

When I don't know how I will want to react, I leave it open ended.

If my husband views porn, he has breached an agreement. I reserve the right to do something as extreme as ending the relationship (if I realize it is, the last straw) or as minor as me implementing a 180 to protect myself, as well as allow him time to get his shit together. I have a range of consequences that I choose from on a case by case basis. This is my current boundary "right now" and I may change that, if I see that he isn't working on his part of our agreements.

So I can say that I don't give ultimatums. I do communicate what I feel is acceptable and what my actions may be if he fails to adhere to his agreements with me.

mbbd posted 4/5/2014 08:00 AM

This question and reading the responses validated my decision to insist on H taking the polygraph scheduled for later this month. My H told the AP that he had a prior affair, which he swears is a lie. I need to know and in counseling, I stated over and over again that not knowing for sure was causing me more grief than I could put into words. I was also angry that my H wasn't jumping at the chance to take it to help me. So, was it an ultimatum? I think it was clear to him that I insist... so yes, I think it is.

I also think anyone in this crappy situation has the right to stay and demand a condition, no change that, conditions... or leave.

Life is way to short to settle for less than you deserve!

tryin2havefaith posted 4/5/2014 08:11 AM

What Zayda said 100%!

Merlin posted 4/5/2014 08:48 AM

I had only one - that she give up OM and work on the marriage and family.

She said "I can't do that right now". I filed later that day.

whattheh posted 4/5/2014 16:12 PM

No friendships or being overly friendly with women.

If he ever cheats again then I will file for D immediately. And I will make sure everyone knows what he did and that it happened before.

BrokenButTrying posted 4/5/2014 16:38 PM

Plainpain, I hope you don't mind a WS perspective on this?

If your WH bumped into the OW in the street you should expect him to turn, walk in the opposite direction and call you immediately. Even with an OC in the equation, surely contact about the child should be scheduled and closely monitored. It would not include causal chat in the street.

I agree with Tearsoflove, it wouldn't be an ultimatum. It would be a boundary to protect you and your marriage. A boundary that your WH should be happy to respect and actively enforce for you.

plainpain posted 4/5/2014 20:16 PM

That actually helps a lot, to think of it as a boundary rather than an ultimatum. We had a talk about it last night, and I just said, "You can't have coffee with her, you know that, right? You can't give her a ride. If she's bleeding on the side of the road, you can't stop to help her." He was good with that. He gets it. He never wants to see her again, but he's such a 'good guy'... KISA. I know his Achilles heal, and so does she.

Anyway, we live on opposite sides of the country so we're not likely to cross paths, but it did need to be said. Thank you for the responses.

tushnurse posted 4/5/2014 20:21 PM

Call em whatever you want but if they are an absolute the
Yah you have to tell him. You don't have to be snotty about it. Just very factually say I hope you realize if you ever do xy or z again pack your shit cause worth more and won't tolerate it. Ever.
That way they can never claim oh I didn't know.

BeautifulEmpty posted 4/6/2014 01:42 AM

Before the last dday, I gave my H an ultimatum. Chose between polyamory and me, I wouldn't accept both. I didn't even know he'd had another affair at the time but he'd been begging me to go back to poly for roughly 8 months. I already had PTSD from our past of extremely abusive, poorly managed polyamory and one straight up affair so I was triggering constantly and hysterical.
After years of him saying he'd always choose me, he said no, he chose himself.
That was when I left and told him to get out.

Now, I don't give ultimatums. I say do whatever you want. I'll do what I want depending on what you choose to do. You know what I want...and I make sure I'm clear although I've been clear for years.
That's that. Our MC has asked in front of him what I will do in certain circumstances. I've assured her that I will file for divorce instantly on the first available business day. No conversations. No questions. I have an attorney fully appraised on our situation and on already paid retainer for just such an occasion.

Sometimes when we have these conversations, I will tell him that I'm not threatening. I'm telling him what will happen. It's a choose your own adventure story with me telling the future depending on what he chooses to do. Simple enough.

I hate feeling like I'm holding him hostage in some way. I've been very clear that he is welcome to do what he likes but if he is wanting something I won't do with him, then quit wasting my time. Again, simple enough.

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