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I did a bad thing.

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BrokenwingBird posted 4/5/2014 14:25 PM

. . .but so did he. Bad things are happening in general. We are both so afraid its time to walk away.

We are 6 months into R. One of the terms was that he could not see some of his best friends (who were women) by himself, at least for a while. I don't see these women as a threat necessarily, but it was the principle. Another term was no NEW female friends ever.

So there was this little 20 year old girl he worked with that he has been chatting with off and on since R began. I found out 3 times and said I am not comfortable with it and to stop. He insisted that nothing was going on, they were just friends, etc, but no problem. He admitted wrong doing each of the three times and said that he had not seen her, just talked on the phone, etc.

Last night after he left my house (we are separated) i found out he was going to see her while lying and telling me he was home. I ambushed him, and unleashed hell.

I hit him. I have never hit anyone in my life. He told me I could and that he deserved it but I am still ashamed. I know it damaged him emotionally in a big way now even though he said I could do it. I wasn't going to do it otherwise. . .but it is no excuse. I yelled at him and said nasty things. Probably because I really thought we were over. Now I just don't know.

Society and media always portray it to be ok for a woman to hit a man, especially if he is a lying cheating jerk (which my WH definitely is). But that is just so wrong. If I were a man, it would definitely not be ok.

We have both crossed a line. A point of no return maybe? We both love each other so much. We used to have something beautiful and special and want nothing more than to have it back. In fact we just got back from a romantic 3 day weekend and were both feeling so hopeful that we were getting "us" back. Then this happened and both of us are left devastated.

I just don't know if our love is worth fighting for, if we are both now so dysfunctional that we deserve each other, or that we need to walk away before things get worse. We are both just so sad. . .

confused615 posted 4/5/2014 15:03 PM

Please..don't do it again.

He told you to hit him..and you did?

You do realize you put yourself in damger of going to jail..right? Telling you to hit him sounds to me like a possible set up. You hit him..he has you arrested(which he had every legal right to do) go to're the "bad guy" here..and he "had to" cheat because you were abusive. And your two year old? He could say you're abusive towards him too..based on your DV charge..had he called the police.

If he was serious about wanting to R, he wouldn't be talking to the 20 year old. He may insist nothing is going on..but he's a liar..and a cheater..who has done nothing to make you think he is truly remorseful.

Don't hit him again. Don't put yourself in that position. Hitting isn't or woman. And women do go to jail for hitting their spouse.

He isn't worth it. Going to jail..sitting in jail..while he is out screwing OW and taking your son along with him..that's the last place you want to be.


[This message edited by confused615 at 3:04 PM, April 5th (Saturday)]

BrokenwingBird posted 4/5/2014 15:33 PM

Thank you Confused

You are absolutely right. I am normally much more level headed that this and would have thought about that in advance. I most certainly never will do it again. I don't know if he even wants to see me again. I don't know if I can see him. But you are totally right and what I did was SO very wrong. There is no way to fix it. I understand for the first time what he was trying to tell me about wishing to take back the affair but not being able to. We now both would have to forgive the unforgivable in each other in order to be together.

StillGoing posted 4/5/2014 16:07 PM

I don't understand - he invited you to hit him and you did, or you hit him and he was okay with it afterward?

peoplepleaser posted 4/5/2014 17:20 PM

I have an unpopular response to this, but before I do I will say this...

Yes, you put yourself in a crappy position by hitting him. Yes, there is no excuse for physical violence regardless of gender. Yes, hitting can be traumatizing. I do not condone it, either.

You are not alone, however. I posted a thread months ago asking if I was the only one. It is not uncommon following infidelity. All of the BSs I know IRL have engaged in some physically aggressive action against their WSs. She had asked me to do it several times months before that, and I never did. One night, though, she was full force blameshifting and calling me a F*&(ing B&^%*$. She was chasing me around the house to do it, cornering me and using her body to invade my space and intimidate me. I just snapped. I spit on her, called her a whore and backhanded her. It got her away from me and there was some satisfaction in knowing she wouldn't do that to me again (the intimidation, which had happened a couple times prior during heated conversations in which I just needed to walk away). Once I calmed down I regretted it immediately. I regretted it because it was beneath me, I regretted it because it was wrong and I regretted it because of how much it would damage our relationship. As much as I hate to admit it, however, it felt good in the moment. I'll never do it again, but I certainly got some satisfaction out of it at the time. It's not necessarily that I think she deserved it or that it solved anything. There are times I think back to it when I'm angry and it helps me put things in perspective, though.

I'm not sure how long you have been separated or what he is doing to move toward full R. You both have crossed a line. One theory behind physical aggression is that we use it when we feel we have no other tools available. I know for me, I was so angry and terribly hurt and she wasn't taking that seriously. Nothing I said or did woke her up from her fog of blaming me for what she did. I was incapable of making her actually SEE me and the pain she caused at that time. Though we are in a great place with R now, it is something we have not yet talked about and I don't look forward to that discussion. So, with that theory I'm guessing you feel out of control and hopeless. An A brings out the dysfunction in all of us and it is so very scary. It sounds like you both want to be in the relationship, but are just so sad about where you each are individually and together. I wouldn't say that you are at the point of no return, though I remember that it feels that way.

My suggestion would be to empower yourself to the point of knowing you will survive with him or without him. Focus on what you need to heal until he's ready and willing to meet your needs for R. Obviously what you are both doing is not working right now and he is clearly engaging in unacceptable behavior for a remorseful WS. Even continued lying is traumatic, but when it involves a prior agreement and suspicious activity it is devastating. He shouldn't get to hurt you anymore, not if he wants to R. For me, it happened when we were separated in-house and I was trying to do the 180. This ultimately worked for us (the separation and 180), as it gave us time to assess our needs and wants in life to determine if we would be able to salvage the relationship. We experienced what life would be without the other and neither of us liked it. They say you have to be willing to sacrifice the relationship in order to save it, and I have to agree.

Find a way to forgive yourself and figure out what this action means to you. Please know you are not alone.

kiki1 posted 4/5/2014 17:36 PM

your not alone. i have done the same. you can still move forward. it is common enough. unfortunately. hugs,,,,,,,,

UnexpectedSong posted 4/5/2014 18:31 PM

I regretted it because it was beneath me, I regretted it because it was wrong and I regretted it because of how much it would damage our relationship. As much as I hate to admit it, however, it felt good in the moment. I'll never do it again, but I certainly got some satisfaction out of it at the time.

One could say the same about an affair.

There is a spectrum of responses to trauma. It is good to analyze why you go to the emotional response you go to.

SBB posted 4/5/2014 18:57 PM

One could say the same about an affair.

There is a spectrum of responses to trauma. It is good to analyze why you go to the emotional response you go to.

^^THIS. I have shame about the one time I slapped the sad clown hard across the face - I have no shame about any of the other destructive stuff I did. That slap was proof I had lost myself completely - yet I was also afraid that this was even inside me. I can't control what fuckery he pulls but it is my job to control my reaction.

I'm sorry but if he's sneaking around with a NEW girl he is still on that slippery slope. He still sees nothing wrong with having inappropriate "friendships" and he still sees nothing wrong with lying to you.

Skan posted 4/5/2014 19:23 PM

We both love each other so much. We used to have something beautiful and special and want nothing more than to have it back.

Compassionately, YOU may love him so much. YOU may want nothing more than to have the love that you thought you had back, but if he's dating. If he's seeing a brand, new OW behind your back, if he's telling you lies so that he can see his new honey, then he isn't interested in your relationship.

He is showing you, by his actions of sneaking around behind your back with a brand, shiny new OW, that he isn't invested in your marriage. No matter what he "says." His words say one thing, but his actions are showing you exactly what the truth is.

peoplepleaser posted 4/5/2014 21:26 PM

Ok, I am sorry, but I took the roasting when I chose to subject myself to judgment by posting on this site about slapping WS and looking for support. At the time I was an emotional wreck and reeling from what I did, so I wasn't strong enough to challenge responses equating my actions to my WS, and to go so far as equating the trauma. The truth is...

We all KNOW it's not ok, or we wouldn't be posting our regret about it.

More importantly, slapping your WS as an emotional response to the most damaging and hurtful behavior one can engage in toward a loved one, shy of rape or verbal and physical abuse (which there is a HUGE difference between physical abuse and what's been described here, especially since we aren't even discussing an actual physical beating), is NOT the same as an A. Of course you can "say the same," about them, but that doesn't make the experience of them comparable. One is nearly premeditated (you don't have an instantaneous emotional reaction and end up sexting or falling into or on top of someone), involves days, months or years of deception, and is conducted against the other spouse under a cloak of thoughtful secrecy. In a lot of important ways specifically related to trauma, this differs from an instantaneous, raw and hopelessly honest reaction to being made to feel foolish, rejected, disrespected, and disgusted by the way in which the person who was supposed to love and protect you conspired with at least one other person against you. The loss of self esteem and confidence along with security and trust in the relationship is not on the same level. The urge to do it for many if not all of us, if we are completely honest with ourselves if not each other, is overwhelming. I commend those who haven't done it. I'll even recognize those of us who held off doing it for a while and then stopped ourselves from going further when we did. I know for me that when I did it my adrenaline was pumping so fiercely that I was not completely under control or in my body, yet I knew enough and gathered enough of myself to walk away immediately to calm down. And while you can take these last few sentences and "say the same about an A," this single action to which I refer that occurs in the split second after a trigger which renders one helpless and hopeless, desperate for understanding of their pain, is done genuinely and in front of the other person without pretense or deception.

The word trauma is thrown around a lot. Trauma is an event that causes one to realistically fear for their or anothers life while feeling helpless or hopeless. It involves flashbacks and intrusive dreams and thoughts. Trauma creates hypervigilance in various aspects of life as a result of the event. The aftermath causes one to avoid certain functional parts of their life, isolate and rearrange daily activities to avoid situations and places in which the trauma occurred. While the fallout from having such an intense emotional response may result in the WS being fearful of anger displayed in the BS, the unique circumstances under which it occurred does not elicit responses associated with trauma that are consistent over time. If there is a past history of physical abuse for the WS, however, it may trigger some symptoms of trauma related to their past.

Please know that I am not justifying this behavior in any way, but I am stepping back and recognizing the circumstances under which it happened to understand how it happened and why, for me it won't happen again. Regardless of the reason or circumstances it is damaging, but it is not an indication that the BS is on a slippery slope to becoming a perpetrator of domestic violence whenever they feel angry. We need to quit pathologizing behavior that is in the normal realm of what can be expected in certain situations. I am not saying that it is ok to hit someone, but I am saying that in certain situations it is understandable why someone would...even to the WS who experienced it. I believe that all of us as human beings have our breaking point. If you combine that with enough other factors at a specific time we act in ways we never imagined we could (heck, I don't even believe in spanking my child). You can take that quote and apply it to an A, if you like, but I will not accept that an isolated incident of lashing out given the emotional turmoil of a BS is comparable to an A.

When I read the posts criticizing me for my reaction, I only felt worse about myself and my situation. Worse than that, I felt in some small way rejected or abandoned by the one place I found the most support. You don't need to feel worse than you already expressed. You don't need any of us to tell you that what you did was wrong. You need to know that you are not alone, that it happens, that many of us on here understand and support you, and that even though it's not ok right now, it will be.

With regard to police action, you should be ok. If he didn't call the police, file a restraining order, and spent any about of time with you after that then there is no indication to a court of law that he realistically fears for his safety or the safety of others around you.

BrokenwingBird posted 4/5/2014 22:23 PM

Dear Peoplepleaser and others who have been in my shoes,

Thank you for your courageous responses. It is difficult to come out and explain the raw emotions you went through especially when it is such a touchy subject as this. It helps me to feel not so alone. I appreciate BOTH sides of input I have received.

Stillgoing: He invited me to hit him. He said, "go ahead, hit me yell at me whatever you want. I know what I did was wrong and I'm willing to take it". I wasn't even considering it before then.

He is a really tough "scrapy" guy who did ALOT of fighting in his youth as he grew up in a rough neighborhood. So I figured he didn't take it as such a big deal as I did or the rest of the world, especially since he volunteered. . .but afterward, he was NOT ok anymore. Because his ex wife and AP were violent with him on many occasions. I didn't realize due to the huge chip on his shoulder how much it was going to hurt him until after. One of the many reasons I regretted it, along with the fact that I dont believe in solving problems with violence. But I was not trying to solve a problem at the time. . .it was a very passionate crazy moment for me when I thought we were going to D.

Skan: According to WS this girl is just his friend and there is NOTHING going on between them bla bla bla. I told him in order for me to move forward I needed to hear it from her first hand. I said he either needed to text or call her while on speaker saying he couldn't see her anymore, he has a WIFE etc. and to get conformation that they are just friends. I figure I will be able to tell by her response whether or not they really had a romantic relationship or not. Of course she may be prompted, but judging by my WH past actions, if they are romantic, she probably thinks he is single.

SBB posted 4/5/2014 22:56 PM

How can you say there is nothing going on when he is well aware of your very clear request and chose to lie to you to spend time with this girl.

If she is an OW do you honestly think she'll tell you the truth?

If he tried to sneak behind your back to see her do you honestly think he won't lie to your face?

How do you expect him to honour your boundaries when he won't?

Him asking you to slap him? In his mind that brought you down to his level - now you're even. He can continue pursuing this affair now because the slap was his only consequence and now he gets to make you feel like shit about yourself for it. Not in a healing, growing way but in a way that ensures he can continue with what he is doing.

He may or may not be fucking her yet. Is that the point? Are you ok with your husband betraying you as long as there is no sex?

Please read and reread your posts. You're making more excuses than he is, you're lying to yourself more than he is lying to you, you are gaslighting yourself more than he is.

I know why you're doing it because I did it too. Spoiler alert - it won't work. The incident with catching him was your DD#2 but you can't see that. You also can't see that you're on your way to DD#3, 4, 5 etc. perhaps even on your way to becoming a WW yourself.

ETA I just realised I'm in the R forum. I am not in R so I'll bow out now. I urge you to read what you've posted and think of what advice you'd give to your sister, GF or daughter.

He has a right to choose who he is 'friends' with. You have a right to choose what you'll tolerate. You're not asking him for anything huge here yet he is choosing not to do it. He is making his choice clear here by his actions. As are you.

[This message edited by SBB at 11:01 PM, April 5th (Saturday)]

Dare2Trust posted 4/6/2014 01:19 AM


Men do not LIE about talking to a woman...sneaking around to spend time with a woman...and telling more LIES about whether or NOT he DID spend time with this woman; unless something about their relationship is highly inappropriate.

ESPECIALLY A MARRIED MAN who claims he is trying to Reconcile his marriage with his WIFE.

Here's what you just posted:

Last night after he left my house (we are separated) i found out he was going to see her while lying and telling me he was home

Your husband LIED to you...and HE was sneaking around SO he could go see and spend time with HIS NEW OW.

Now - I have no idea what your husband is doing with this NEW OW, when HE LIES TO YOU....and when he SNEAKS AROUND spending time with this gal.
But - I assume: HE and this OW are not simply talking.
Otherwise - WHY LIE ABOUT IT??

If this OW is important enough for WH to continually LIE about her to you....THEN "something is going on between your husband and this OW."

As far as getting this New OW to "testify/verify" what's going on between her and your husband....That's a huge waste of your time. This gal well-knows your husband is a married man with a child. SO, what makes your believe she'd be honest with you?.

You are correct - It's wrong to physically hit anyone.
And NO: I do not believe "Society and the Media" portray that it's ok/acceptable for a woman to hit a man. It's not acceptable.

[This message edited by Dare2Trust at 1:20 AM, April 6th (Sunday)]

BeautifulEmpty posted 4/6/2014 01:27 AM

I'm not going to comment on the hitting thing...I agree with's not the same as an A assuming no real abuse.

What I am going to comment on is that during our 3 year false R, one of the requirements for us getting back together was that he absolutely not hangout with women alone for any reason. In time, he began to do exactly that. I told him no but he did it repeatedly any way.
Eventually, he introduced me to his last OW. She asked if he and her could hang out before I met her so they could catch up (old friends from work). I told her straight up that I wasn't comfortable with that due to problems we had in the past. She told me how impressed she was. That she had never met a woman so up front. And...she became his last OW and the one who destroyed me beyond belief.

If your H is doing this, he is still ripe for an affair because he isn't honoring your wishes nor even understanding why they are a thing for you.

StillLivin posted 4/6/2014 01:29 AM

He is not worth going to jail over. He just isn't.
I'm not like many on this site. I personally feel that sometimes a good old fashioned A.. whoopin is well deserved. And I would not come to a female friend's/relative's aid (unless her H had a weapon or was trying to do serious damage), if I saw her H laying a whooping on her for screwing around. I would figure she should have expected he wasn't going to bake her a cake.
BUT, again, society does not deem this acceptable, and one must play nice with others. So, unless you look fantastic in orange, no more hitting or physical violence.
Later, when you have had some time to get clarity, you will see that walking away is actually better anyway. In a sick way, he wanted that attention if he told you to go ahead and hit him. Don't fall into his kind of sickness, it's crazy making.
Besides, if you get to the point where you are hitting someone you profess to love, it isn't love anymore, and it certainly isn't healthy.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 1:35 AM, April 6th (Sunday)]

homewrecked2011 posted 4/6/2014 01:44 AM

He was lucky- a lady in the outpatient treatment center I went to after DDAY tried to run over her WS!

Dust yourself off,, go get a counselor for YOU to deal with this whole thing.

People usually get angry when an injustice has been done. Your WS was in the wrong for talking to a 20 year old. He may never grow up, but you have to get control of yourself and be a role model for your child....and counseling should really help with this. If you think alcohol is playing a part, then go to Alanon. -- for families of drinkers..


peoplepleaser posted 4/6/2014 10:24 AM

I wholeheartedly agree with DareToTrust and SBB. Lying after an A is bad enough, even if it's something benign or to another person. To lie about spending time and energy on someone who fits the profile of his APs is blatant disregard for the position he out you both in and your own emotional safety. You know what you need to R. You told him. He chose to not only ignore it, but lie to you about it. He's supposed to be earning trust back. He chose to engage in two behaviors that look very bad given what he's already done. And now he's asking you to not only allow this friendship, but believe his assertions about what it really is? Obviously he has poor boundaries. I'm impressed with your acceptance of any female friends at this point. You are only 6 months in, which isn't enough time for him to have recognized and corrected the maladaptive patterns in his relationships with others. How long are you going to allow him to keep hurting you? At what cost to yourself are you willing to R?

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You were in a bad position just wanting to R after this, that I'm sure this situation is truly heartbreaking. I'm sending hugs.

BrokenwingBird posted 4/6/2014 12:11 PM

Thank you for the support peoplepleaser. Yes it is difficult. I have lowered myself in ways I have never expected. . .we both have. I do believe as you said, that he is not going to change many of his poor coping patterns he has used his whole life in just a few months. I expect him to backslide here and there, but I also expect him to show that he is trying and making progress. And he has made tremendous progress in his communication skills and his ability to be vulnerable with me. This is why this new betrayal is so heartbreaking. . .because we really felt like we were doing better.

As far as how long I am going to put up with this? I would love to say no more, the next lie is the last. In fact that is what I am telling my self now...but the truth is I told myself hell no I would never stay with someone who cheats on me once let alone had a LTA. . .so so much for what I thought I would never do. Never say never because you really don't know until you are there right? It was so easy for me to talk tough all these years and say I would not stand for it and here I am.

My plan now anyways, is to listen to him make the phone call to her today with me listening in. He is to tell her about "his wife" and how he cant talk to her anymore, and work into the conversation about how they are just friends and haven't been together. I want to hear her reaction to this. If she thought they were dating, she might say so. True, she could have been prompted and ready for the call. In which case the GPS I will have on his car the next few weeks will tell me if he is still seeing her as I know the street she lives on now.

If I find out he has gone to see her after this call, my plan is to keep quiet, consult a family law attorney and prepare myself for leaving before I let on that I know. I have learned that I cannot go to him immediately and in the heat of my anger anymore because now I apparently have issues controlling myself, and two, he is a smooth talker. He can very quickly make me feel like we were meant to be and it's us against the world, how all hes ever wanted is me and he is just hurting etc. . .which is how I got to the situation that I am in.

This is my plan. I just hope that if it comes down to it, I have the strength to follow through.

peoplepleaser posted 4/6/2014 19:15 PM

It seems you have a good plan in place and he is on board. I hope he sticks with it and continues to give you nothing but good reasons to R. Sending good thoughts your way.

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