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i guess I haven't been clear with my ws what he needs to do, but he doesn't listen to me or hear me when I speak. Apparently, I have to freaking spell it all out like a 5yo because he doesn't "get it".

I'm curious if anyone had interesting must dos for their ws. I'm at a point that I don't care, but he's giving me emotional fits lately, so maybe I need a concrete list.

Write down a list of what you need make sure he sees and can see it often. Email it to him so there is a record of what you wrote down.

My list which I did write down and email to him:
Be truly remorseful for what you have done and show it
End relationship with other women and do not contact them
Be open and transparent about everything (your phone, computer...)
Go to individual counseling use it to help you to figure out things you don't know
Admit to someone what you did
Treat me with love and respect everyday
Answer any and all questions I have for you honestly and without being defensive

Clearly one of our biggest problems is his family mostly his mother. he just can't see her for what she really is, and now that he went and told his family that he cheated I'm waiting for her to turn it on me.

I've tried keeping the in laws at a distance but they are the type that if you give them an inch they take a mile. They just have no respect for personal space.

I can't demand he cut his mother out of his life, but I've told him time and time again what she's done. How she's lied and how I get to choose who is a part of my life and who is not.

I made it clear that I think his mother is not a nice person, and he will say yes she's a selfish asshole(just like him) but he always excuses it saying "it's my mom". He just can't not talk to her despite how bad it is for our marriage.

I've got to think more about this.

What is it that you would want from your WS?
Do you believe what you want is realistic?

We mostly followed the recommendations of the article in the healing library titled,What the WS/BS Must Do to Reconcile:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/reconcile_musts.asp

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 10:42 PM, April 7th (Monday)]

mine is pretty much the same as soloney.

mine is pretty much the same as soloney.

Uh yeah, sorry to say but you probably do need to freaking spell it out, at least that what I had to do!!!! The fog can be very, very heavy for some. You do have to be very specific. You would think they would know on their own, but that fog..... plus there is depression, self hate, guilt and shame going on.

Of course the obvious is that they don't cheat ever again. Then you might need to take some time and write down what you can/can't live with. Also, some things may change for you and that's ok too. I certainly hope your mother in-law doesn't blame you, but if she does I hope your H will stand united with you. That could be a demand, that you will be united and support each other.

Keep talking, your thoughts and feelings need to be heard and respected! Hang in there and take care.

We used the "marriage contract" that lordhasaplan posted in this post: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=522037

I think the marriage contract is absolutely brilliant and lays out exactly what R should look like.

I had a similar situation with my MIL. She was toxic to our relationship. She basically told my husband that he "had nothing to apologise for" in regards to his affair (he slept over at OW's house twice a week, every week, for 4 months and basically treated her as his wife) because when I was 17 years old and we had only been dating for a few months, I kissed another boy**. WTF?? There is lots more to it, but ultimately fWH chose to cut her out of his life completely. It's been very hard, but if our marriage stands any chance of survival, it's probably the only way.

**not justifying what I did in any way - it was completely wrong (I also had 2 ONS as a teenager, that MIL doesn't know about) I own my shit - but I don't think that it is comparable to what he did after we had been married for 15 years, with 2 children.

[This message edited by ItsaClimb at 2:20 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]

Thanks for the responses. I am going to look through it all and try to put together a list of concrete consequences. I guess he's not the only one that can't just figure it out with a list like a child.

Uh yeah, sorry to say but you probably do need to freaking spell it out, at least that what I had to do!!!! The fog can be very, very heavy for some. You do have to be very specific. You would think they would know on their own, but that fog..... plus there is depression, self hate, guilt and shame going on.

You need to make your demands very clear, very concrete. You also need to make what will happen should he not follow through with the meeting said demands. Be prepared to follow through. Not understanding, and not remembering what you said is just part of the WS path, and way to cop out of being held responsible.

My list was very short.

Transparency with everything, electronic media, phone, email, computers, phone calls. ALL OF IT
No omissions of truth, a big one for him.
NC and be very clear that this is not just in person, but electronically as well.
MC - I knew IC wasn't going to happen, but I already had the name of a great MC, who would give homework, and he did.
Work on himself and figure out why he did this, and why I was made out to be the bad guy when he did this.

That was it. Anything he did or wanted to do that triggered, put me on edge or inhibited our healing, went back to one of these.

Your situation with the inlaws is a bit tricky. You can't make a person do anything they don't want to do. But you can make it clear that you will not tolerate your MIL disrespecting you in anyway, and if she does he is to stand up for you and sing your praises.

I sent this email to FWH a few weeks after d-day and it spelled it out!

This whole affair has really prompted me to review our life together. I have spent a lot of time thinking about what I deserve as your wife and what you deserve as my husband. So, here it goes:
I deserve to be unconditionally loved. Loved when I'm mad and loved when I'm happy. I deserve to be understood
I deserve to be respected as a wife, mother and individual.
I deserve a husband who comes home from work with a smile on his face because he is happy to see me.
I deserve to come in first and foremost in your life. My wants and my needs should matter. No matter how much our world spins out of control, I deserve this.
I deserve a husband who wants to make love to me and only me. I also deserve a husband who understands when I am not in the mood and respects that
I do not deserve mean comments. Even things said in anger hurt
I deserve a husband who accepts me as the only woman in his life. A husband who, no matter how bad things get, will never, ever look to another woman for comfort.
I deserve to be listened to. Just because you don't think it is important, it is to me. Listen to me and don't judge me.
I deserve a husband who understands that sometimes I just don't feel like cooking
I deserve a husband who is kind and caring towards me. A husband who treats me like the classy lady that I am and not a maid and mother
I deserve a husband who wants to spend time having fun with me.
I deserve a husband who plans special things for me. A surprise once in awhile wouldn't hurt at all
I deserve to feel special like I am the only woman in the world who matters.
I deserve a husband who doesn't ogle other women.
I deserve a husband who doesn't flirt with other women.
I deserve a husband who will treat me like a queen no matter what.
I deserve a husband who is truly sorry for what he has done and would walk over hot coals for me if it would make me feel better.
I deserve a husband who understands the depth of my pain. The loss of part of my marriage is almost more than I can bear.
I deserve full disclosure. Not only about the things the two of you did but the effect it had on us.
I deserve for you to be honest with me about your feelings concerning her.
I deserve a huaband who will support my goals and dreams.
I deserve to be unconditionally loved by my husband forever.

My demands were transparency, getting sober, really working a recovery, and a new ring.

Your H may not "get it" if he has a very dysfunctional relationship with his parents.

I had one with my folks. It is a very painful thing to basically cut off your parents, even if you understand its for the best. This was a decision that I had to come to on my own. They say losing a parent is one of the most stressful things you can go through. Imagine losing a parent, but knowing they are still alive. Imagine knowing, for the rest of your life, that you likely will never see your parents alive again, that maybe if you are lucky, you will be invited to the funeral. You hope and pray, that even though you all can't get along well, that they understand that you really do love them, deep down.

Had my H, told me to me a choice, me or them, I would not have made the right choice for most of my life. I would not have responded well to him at all. I am eternally grateful that he allowed me to come to my own conclusions in my own time.

It's a little different since my H is the one that tore our marriage apart, not me.

I kept it really simple.

No contact with the OM ever again. Effective immediately. No heartfelt good-byes nothing.

No affair ever again.

She had to work on her FOO issues that put her in a stat that this was possible.

I felt like we had a really good relationship before the affair. And so did she. I've really been focusing on getting back to that.

I don't belong in this forum, but the word DEMANDS in scare quotes brought me from the main page.

It is my understanding that they aren't "demands". They are boundaries.

A boundary is set to protect yourself. It is a clear line, and there are clear consequences if it is broken.

Once a boundary is set, you can let go of the outcome, because it no longer depends on you. It depends on your partner.

I live mostly in the D/S forum, since my boundary to WW was "if you can't commit to the marriage and give up your boyfriends, I'll divorce you."

Divorce was final 8/9/14.

There are articles on boundary setting you can find through google, and a few in the Healing Library.

My whole problem was coming up with consequences short of divorce; it became moot when WW pursued OM#3 right under my nose.

I don't belong in this forum anymore either but I read a book that really helped me to understand what I would need to R.

It is called Living and Loving After Betrayal, by Steven Stosny.

The last section is on getting in touch with what you really need to feel safe and loved. What your betrayer needs to do to help you and prove themselves.

It really spoke to me, it helped to clarify what was important to me on a deeper level.

I wish you well. Good luck.

Question for all. When demanding transparency from the WS what is expected from the BS in terms of transparency? The reason I ask is that I don't want him on my phone or computer finding things like this forum which is all I have in terms of support. I don't want him to know that I am trying to protect myself from him(financially, emotionally) which would be obvious if he went through my phone or computer.

I feel no need to hide anything from him other than the things I'm trying to do to help myself, and I don't trust him. If you can find my post from the weekend you'd see one along the lines of "the armor has cracked". I've got to protect myself because I don't think he can keep up this act.

From the beginning my WH tried to twist and turn things on me. When he decided to follow my boundaries in order to stay married to me he agreed to give me complete access to any and all devices. His access to mine was never discussed. Never. He never asked about it. I think he knew better. He was the one that screwed up and proved he couldn't be treated like a trustworthy adult.

If he's worried about accessing your stuff he's playing tit for tat, not looking to earn his way back to staying married. You have no obligation to share your safety nets with him. Safety nets that you needed to put into place because of his behavior. No-he needs to earn back enough trust to raise him up to being privy to all you are doing. Until you believe he is honest and sincere in his attempt at R, do not share your stuff with him.

If he tries to say you need to do it too, remind him that he has messed up and it's him that needs to earn back trust, INCLUDING him proving over time that his motivations are trustworthy. If he's not willing to hand over passwords and access then he's saying no to R. Don't get sucked into that bullshit distraction.

Anything less than "yes" is a no. He doesn't get to add stipulations. He's not running this show. If he tries that angle say you are sad he won't agree to your terms and that you will be following through with the divorce, etc.

Thanks for putting that to me do clearly. It does help.