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After 18 mths I have my 'Why'

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SecondHelping posted 4/21/2014 07:50 AM

On D-Day, fWW gave me some 'Why's but after joining SI, I knew they were reactionary. I got: Stress Relief, Curiosity, You were the only one I had been with.

I asked her to seek out the reason why with here IC and tell me when she found out.

After 18 months with her IC she told me the reason why was "She was lonely". They had explored a lot of stuff but keep coming back to being lonely.

I don't know what to think. So was I.

RipsInMyChest posted 4/21/2014 08:08 AM

It sounds like they have not dug deep enough. Many people are lonely and don't cheat!!! WHY did she cheat....well the typical and almost universal reason is selfishness. And usually a good dose of poor coping skills.

Poor coping skills can come in many forms: comunication(conflict avoidance, stuffing down emotions, etc.); stress (using sex as stress relief); intimacy (FOO issues make being authentic and vulnerable too scary--so they avoid it); self esteem issues (dealing with feelings of inadequacy by seeking external validation).

Those are the reasons they would want/need to cheat. How they act on it is selfishness, entitlement, rationalizations (what they told themselves to make it "ok"), eroded or absent moral compass, lack of integrity, lack of impulse control, poor boundaries, etc.

A good question to ask her is WHY she felt like being lonely made it ok to cheat? Why not deepen her connection with YOU and ask for what she needed from YOU? How was cheating a viable option for her?

5454real posted 4/21/2014 08:11 AM

that's a start. I agree, finding out why it was okay to cheat if you're lonely is probably more important.

have her keep digging.

bionicgal posted 4/21/2014 08:39 AM

I think lonely is a "why." It isn't the whole picture, and it isn't what allowed her to (that is more the realm of poor coping skills, etc.). Her "why" why won't ever tell you what in particular made her do it and not you. For most waywards it is a perfect storm of circumstances -- opportunity+ feeling bad about themselves+ needing escape+ wanting a connection, etc.

Selfishness? Sure. One has to be selfish to have an affair, but does it cause them? Lots of selfish people won't cheat.

sisoon posted 4/21/2014 09:46 AM

Next questions for her to address:

if you felt lonely, why didn't you reach out to H? What did you tell yourself that enabled you to cheat?

AML04 posted 4/21/2014 09:56 AM

I do think that could be her "why", although maybe not the only one. When she should be looking into is her "how". How was she able to just push your marriage aside and do it. Like everyone else said that usually comes with poor coping skills or communication issues.

I know my WH and I have both.

Lovedyoumore posted 4/21/2014 10:05 AM

I was lonely, too. I have to agree. That answer is not enough because it is a shallow, surface answer. The loneliness did not cause her descent into cheating. It may have been an issue in her life, but she had many options other than infidelity. The why question would be "why, when you felt the loneliness, did you consider cheating to be a good response in your life?

That's like using the "I was not getting enough _______, so I cheated". You can insert nearly any answer in there. It still does not answer, why did you chose cheating to resolve that empty blank?

tushnurse posted 4/21/2014 10:36 AM

Nope that's not her real why. Ok she was lonely, but Why was she lonely in her M? That's where her real answer lies. Why did being lonely allow her to be ok with her decision to cheat?
When you get those answers, then you have your why, and how to fix it.

Being lonely? What's the fix for that? What happens when she gets Lonely again?

See what I mean, it's more than that. She is doing good, but she has to dig deeper still.

SisterMilkshake posted 4/21/2014 10:52 AM

I don't know why (I better explore that ) but I immediately reacted with anger to your fWW's "why".

Wow, how self serving. To me it doesn't sound like ownership at all, but it reflects back on you. Why was she lonely? Because YOU didn't pay enough attention to her. Craptastic!

If she had said something more along the lines of "I was lonely and instead of being mature and talking to SecondHelping, I decided it was easier and more fun to go fuck someone else" that would be a start. I feel she has a lot more digging to do about her why's and how's.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:54 AM, April 21st (Monday)]

NoMorDeceit posted 4/21/2014 11:33 AM

Lonely?? Meh. Lonely is a problem. Lonely isn't the underlying belief system that allowed her to say "I'm lonely...so even though I'm married I'll get involved with X to not feel lonely". The real why is the "what" in her belief system that allowed her to step out in the first place. Most of us have in place a belief system that tells us cheating is wrong, dead wrong, so wrong we are unable to do so (even when at times that would seem an easy solution). We can't, we are constrained by our beliefs that doing so is dead wrong. So what your wife needs to get to the bottom of is why didn't she hold cheating as a "dead wrong". So wrong she couldn't act on it.

Her "I am lonely so I'll cheat" is like saying "I'm hungry so I'll go throw fido on the grill". For most of us that is just is a "dead wrong", non-starter, visceral reaction type of thing. Another example: "I'm broke so I'll go rob a bank". Again, for most of us a dead wrong. Non starter. What is/was missing in your wife is the step between lonely/hungry/broke--->missing driving belief--->cheating/grilling up fido/robbing a bank. She needs to figure out the driving belief that allowed "cheating" to be the answer to that problem.

It may be a case of "fluid ethics", selfishness, narcissism, entitlement or any number of driving beliefs. Some of those can't be fixed, but they can be managed so that the next time she gets lonely or whatever, she makes a different choice. She may have to make a choice (where most of us just see a hard stop)and that can be hard to accept. You want it to be that visceral hard stop that most of us feel and some people are just never going to feel that way, but they can learn to make different choices, to choose better less harmful and hurtful ways to cope with their problems.

I guess what I am saying is, nice that she has identified the problem she had after 18 months, now she needs to go back and dig into her belief systems and find out what drove her to see cheating as an "answer" and what allowed her to act on it. That underlying belief is the one that needs to be changed or managed in a way that allows her to make different, better choices.

[This message edited by NoMorDeceit at 11:34 AM, April 21st (Monday)]

SecondHelping posted 4/22/2014 09:03 AM

Thanks for the comments.

Later in the "Why" discussion, fWW mentioned that she didn't mean this to happen. When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him. I told her that is exactly what she needs to be figuring out in IC...why she went to stop it and then allowed it to happen/progress.

I agree that fWW is selfish. She always has been. I think at times we all are and I'm no saint. fWW has put herself first most of her life. He enjoyment, pleasure and satifaction almost always come first, even over her kids and me. Yes things have changed quite a bit since D-Day, but these tendencies still come through a lot of the time.

Things are so much better than before and after D-Day. We get along, love and talk to each other now like we haven't for 20 years. We still are not communicating deeply like our MC wants us to, but I've pretty much given up hope that that will ever happen.

I also don't think fWWs IC will ever push her for anything more than "Lonely". IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.

SisterMilkshake posted 4/22/2014 09:09 AM

IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.
Wow! Well its no wonder that your fWW hasn't progressed very much with that IC. It seems she supports the selfishness in your fWW.

mozzchops posted 4/22/2014 09:16 AM

fWW mentioned that she didn't mean this to happen. When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him

Exactly what my WW told me. Of course its easy to say that after it happens. I simply don't buy it.

20WrongsVs1 posted 4/22/2014 16:07 PM

Lonely as a "why" is like those asinine headlines: "SUV injures three pedestrians."

The test I personally apply to a "why" is, "What is the solution?"

For example. Lack of mature coping techniques for feelings such as loneliness. Works for me, as a why, because the solution is: learn how to self-soothe.

OTOH, what's the solution to loneliness?

Umm...become a firefighter?

sunvalley posted 4/22/2014 16:17 PM

Lonely is a symptom that was felt in the marriage at the time. It may be a symptom both the BS and WS felt, which means it is not a cause. The cause is the coping mechanism and rationalization or compartmentalization WS used to deal with the symptom....to artificially make that symptom/emotion go away or numbed. Its a start, but its not a why IMO.

blakesteele posted 4/22/2014 17:23 PM

When she first went to meet him, she had in her mind that she was going to meet him to tell him nothing was going to happen/they were just friends. She ended up holding hands and kissing him. I told her that is exactly what she needs to be figuring out in IC...why she went to stop it and then allowed it to happen/progress.


Yep....you are right on the money here. My wife "tried to break it off" several times. Boldly told herself she this was the LAST time she would meet him. Talked to her sister about her affair before I knew about it...and received the same encouragement....that my wife was in control and should just stop the affair.

Unfortunately....YOU telling her this or pointing it out to her is not going to have much weight. Its sad....but people choosing adultery are so self-centered that you are simply not a factor.

This is where IC is so vitally important.

We still are not communicating deeply like our MC wants us to, but I've pretty much given up hope that that will ever happen.

Don't self-limit your potentials.

I also don't think fWWs IC will ever push her for anything more than "Lonely". IC asked me to come in on fWWs second session and she said "Amibroken had an affair because she thought you didn't love her. Now lets get to this business of why you won't let her be a fireman." I'm like WTF, you think that's the most important thing on the table? I never went back.


Wowsers! Its therapist like this that turn my stomach. These comments are what keep D rates constant at 50% and why we see adultery increasing. This idea that ones own fullfillness and happiness is paramount is anti-relationship, IMHO.

Been to 3 therapists thus far....80 plus sessions.

Had a sex therapist actually recommend to us that we engage in "affair-like sex"! And submitted to us that porn is not all bad. This person was a CSAT, knew of my wifes affair, and my decades long use of porn. We stopped seeing her the session after this suggestion was made....took us another session to confirm what we heard was what she said. She very much had a new-age approach to healing.

This post address's a WS's whys. I have been finding healing and growth to search for my own whys......shocked at some of my hidden influences as to why I do what I do.

Sistermilkshake and Sunvalleys posts are solid responses here.

Particularly like Sunvalleys valid point that loneliness is a symptom of a marriage with struggles.


Our current therapists turned some things around for us.....basically saying a broken marriage is a result of ones own coping skills. Same coping skills that enabled adultery to be chosen, or porn to be chosen.

Still getting my hands around this one...but seems to make more sense in our sitch. My wife did not do anything that made me use porn. I did nothing to make my wife chose adultery. We had those ingredients in us well before we met each other.

The challenge now is to address those coping skills....and change them. Learn to process life rather than just cope with life.

Peace.

heartbrokeninaz posted 4/22/2014 21:31 PM

I think lonely is a why also. There are other underlying aspects to it but lonely is valid. My husband also was lonely. We had a roommate quality marriage. Child based, no communication, no sex marriage. I also was lonely. I just didn't have the willingness to have an A. When we discussed it in greater depth the lonely was at the bottom of the why. It went into much more detail after that. It was about feelings of not being married anymore. About knowing there was a problem but not being able to communicate about it. About giving up and loosing hope. About turning away from each other instead of toward each other. There is more he just may not be able to communicate it to you in the right way. I know my husband can't unless I ask him point blank if he felt this or that at the time.

MC_Jack posted 4/22/2014 22:16 PM

I think loneliness is a valid why.

After all, it is the 'why' of our site's founder Deeply Scared.

sudra posted 4/23/2014 06:24 AM

I disagree that lonely is a "why." It's closer but she shouldn't stop with that.

What happens if she is lonely again?

Why was her solution to loneliness to cheat?

circlingthedrain posted 4/23/2014 06:41 AM

I think she and her IC are answering the wrong question. When you ask why, the answer tends to be some external factor...My BH is an asshole, he didn't show me enough attention etc. What she needs to answer is HOW she let herself go there.

Everybody has life experiences that are disappointments. What differentiates us is how we deal with those experiences - our coping mechanisms/boundaries.

You said it yourself, you were lonely too... yet you did not cheat.


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