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How do I know if he is in it?

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brokennewyear posted 4/21/2014 22:54 PM

D-Day was Jan 1, 2014. I have agreed to try to make the marriage work. He said he would quit his job since she works there, would start going to counseling, he wanted to do marriage counseling, and said he had nothing more to hide.
As of current, he is still working the same job, same shift as her, has not talked to an individual counselor, I called and got us into marriage counseling a few weeks ago, and I continue to find things he was doing over the last few years.
I try to talk with him about how I am feeling and he gets defensive. I feel that I defend the way that I feel and that I have to justify to him why I am sad and unhappy. He says that I keep throwing the affair in his face. He is mad that I have real time access to two of his email accounts and some of his texts because he has no privacy.
I don't know if he is actually ready to reconcile. I don't even feel that he wants to be with me right now because of how I am. How do you know if your spouse if committed to reconciling?

kiki1 posted 4/21/2014 23:29 PM


At the least, he should be in ic. He should be job searching.

He shouldnt be angry and defensive either about the feelings he inflicted on you or his need to prove he is committed.

He should be honest with you about what he's been doing. Is he telling you these things or are you finding out on your own?

the above items do not indicate someone who is full in to you or your marriage.

Are you sure the affair has stopped??

I'm sorry you are here in this situation.


peoplepleaser posted 4/22/2014 01:09 AM

Oh I remember that time. It was horrible. The second guessing and not wanting to believe that the signs and patterns similar to other situations on SI were an indication that something isn't right. In addition the blame placed on you, when what you are feeling is appropriate and to be expected. Feeling as if you are tying hard enough or worse, that you made the WS feel so bad they had to look elsewhere. I'm so sorry you are in that place right now. It's horrible.

The truth is that anything the WS does that makes you question their commitment to R, their ability to regain trust or think anything other than they are working hard to prove themselves is a red flag right now. It doesn't necessarily mean the A has continued, but it does mean that they haven't yet come to the place you need them to be for R. For many, it means there is more to find. If there isn't, then it simply means that they are still justifying their actions to themselves and are hoping to rugsweep and move on with life without the hard work of facing the cruel reality that they were capable if devastating the person they swore to love and emotionally protect.

When I look back now I wish I had been more aware if what I needed from her. That I had stood my ground and trusted my gut more. That I found the strength to separate rather than let her continue to deceive me when my gut was screaming. There is a thread on this forum that I think is titled "Before You Say R." Try to find it and read it. It helped me.

OnAnIsland posted 4/22/2014 01:40 AM

This is so soon. You don't need to justify how you feel. He needs to be completely transparent and to support your needs in this marriage. I hope that you are seeing an individual counselor to help you heal from his betrayal and clarify your needs. He should be in IC, and looking for a new job.

re MC: I am not sure how helpful that will be, as he doesn't seem to be in a place to reconcile. He needs to figure his stuff out some more first. Just my opinion, but he doesn't seem to be a remorseful supportive WH.

Take care of yourself. You don't need to make any big decisions now. Just work on you.

You will see real changes in his behaviors and actions when he is really committed to reconciling, when he is remorseful, when he is getting it. Not just hear the right words, but see the actions that put you and your needs first.

brokennewyear posted 4/22/2014 13:02 PM

All that I know I have found on my own. He has not came to me about anything. I have asked him to tell me something that I don't know and he said that I have found everything. Then I find conversations from 2 and 3 years ago where is is talking of meeting up with different women. I can't ask him because it will lead to a fight and him saying it shouldn't matter since it was that long ago and it doesn't matter what he says because I don't trust him anyways.
I am not sure if the affair is over. He says that it is. I haven't seen her number on the call logs but he could very well have a different phone. They still work the same shift, he is still working late every day. I confronted her and she would answer anything.

brokennewyear posted 4/22/2014 13:57 PM

Thank you for all of your responses. I do not feel supported by him at all. He asks me if I am ever going to be able to move on. He doesn't want to talk about any of it because it is in the past and we are trying to move on. It seems that he just wants me to hurry up and get over it. During an argument he told me that I am not treating him right. That I am distant and hardly acknowledge him on days and how that is going to push him away. I tell him that I don't feel that he really wants this and he replies "If I didn't want to be here, I would have left long ago." or "I wouldn't have came back after the affair came out." I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.

Christy516 posted 4/22/2014 20:13 PM

My last dday isnt far from yours. But the first was at the end of July. And then in September. And then in NNovember. In my situation there was a marked difference in his attitudes, words and actions from the first to the last dday. Before he was angry, didn't want to talk, wanted me to get over it, had already said he was sorry - how many more times did i need to hear it? He accused me of invading his privacy, of snooping, not giving him room to breathe. Since January he has been open, remorseful, caring, willing to talk (in fact initiating talks). He is completely transparent with his phone, his time and activities. It's like night and day. The difference for us was it wasn't over yet. He was still in the fog, still in the A until January. Then it all came out. Every detail. He confessed to everything. I don't know if that is what is happening in your life. But i do know that i was so confused and hurt that i tried to believe every word that he said, even when my gut and his actions told me otherwise.

rachelc posted 4/22/2014 20:45 PM

When someone is "in it" they leave their job immediately, are happy about being transparent and falling over themselves to go to IC and help you heal.
Wound he read? "How to help your spouse heal from your affair?"
Wondering if a time ultimatum might work too?
And if there were other affairs, yes you have a right to talk about them and be angry. Don't be afraid of him. Be afraid of living a life where your spouse is a dick and gives you no respect,,.
I'm so sorry honey. Hugs to you !'

[This message edited by rachelc at 8:46 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

NoMorDeceit posted 4/22/2014 20:53 PM

He is still hip deep in his wayward mindset. I doubt it has ended and he has zero intention of being committed to R or to helping you heal in anyway. R to him means you stop snooping in his business and stop asking him about his affair. I call BS on that. Time to go shopping...a nice new pair of bitch boots and some hefty bags. This stops when you say it does. He is extremely arrogant and needs a hard dose of reality.

plewpiter posted 4/22/2014 21:52 PM

I'm in the same boat, but one year out now. Very similar, except that my WW has gotten a lot better at the day-to-day behavior, just the little things like plenty of I Love You's, hugs, and just plain being consistently nice for a change. But we don't talk about anything serious. She is still in the same job (boss in the OP), hasn't gone to IC (even after me asking her to multiple times), dragging her feet at getting rid of old emails, photos, etc. Very little true remorse. She told me she doesn't want to do NC because it would make things awkward at work. Yet I find texts between them talking about personal stuff, things she could choose to not respond to. I know intimately the pain of my feelings being completely ignored out of selfishness.

Indifference is the ugliest bitch there is in the pursuit of R.

[This message edited by plewpiter at 9:54 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

rachelc posted 4/23/2014 06:12 AM

She is still in the same job (boss in the OP), hasn't gone to IC (even after me asking her to multiple times), dragging her feet at getting rid of old emails, photos, etc. Very little true remorse. She told me she doesn't want to do NC because it would make things awkward at work. Yet I find texts between them talking about personal stuff, things she could choose to not respond to

you don't have to put up with any of this... you could make it a requirement of you giving her the gift of recovery.

plewpiter posted 4/23/2014 09:29 AM

rachelc, I'm sending her a "kindly worded" yet forceful and specific ultimatum today that she needs to give me full access to all her digital communications, and that she MUST read the book How To Help Your Spouse To Heal...

She's shown resistance to the full transparency thing in the past, saying she would do it, but afraid it would just drag up old feelings in me if I look back to far. To me, I need to see the context of some of her old "flings" and BFs, etc. She says it'll make me feel bad if she lets me see things from before we were together. Problem is, she lied already about her last BF, who she was bad-mouthing when we first started dating. They were together two years, then she broke it off. I asked her (before we married) if they ever thought of marriage and life together, but she flat out denied any interest, saying he was a big mistake. Well, one of the things I had to discover on my own was that they were actually engaged for a few months. Lies.

So, yes, the nature of previous relationships is important to me, and how I cautiously move forward in R. I also have seen evidence that she was at least in inappropriate contact with other guys while she was married to her first H (who ironically cheated on her and left with the OW). Oh, and the main she had an EA with, her boss, was also an old fling that she reconnected with. I've recently seen her in conversations on facebook with another old fling, reminiscing about how things would have been if they stayed together. Crossing so many boundaries, it makes me physically ill. SI has been a great help in me getting my bearings and understanding my rights.

SpotlessMind posted 4/23/2014 11:49 AM

((((Brokennewyear)))). That sounds like a very frustrating and painful situation--I'm so sorry. I was in a similar position for several months after DDay, and I remember how hard it was.

What I wish I'd known back then was to value myself more, and to send my husband packing when it became clear he was still incapable of getting how huge a trauma this was and what I needed from him to heal. The resistance to privacy invasion, hiding accounts, trickle truthing, telling me to "get past it"--I experienced all of that, and it hurt.

We got through it anyway--something finally seemed to click for him--but I think I could have gotten there quicker and with more dignity and sanity if I'd done the 180 early on and worked on just me. He won't get it until he's ready to really listen, drop the shame and defensiveness, and dig in--and until then, I believe you are better off without him making a shitty situation worse with his complete lack of empathy. Maybe when he sees what he stands to lose, he'll have an aha moment.

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