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wanttogoforward posted 4/22/2014 06:44 AM

If you read my post yesterday in R forum you know my H triggered yesterday.... anyway he avoided me all day. Last night in bed I finally asked him to get him to talk. Well- he finally after 4 long years admitted he wanted it to be a PA..... and his reasoning for not taking it to a PA?????

'HER LIFE WAS FUCKED UP- HER SITUATION'!!!!!!

He said he won't deny he thought about it- like I couldn't tell that from the gifts and emails he sent??????

The part of it that makes me feel the worst is that I was hoping to hear the "I couldn't do it because it would hurt you. It would hurt my kids. It would destroy the life we built together. It was wrong. I loved you." Not one of those things were said and today I feel like I am destroyed..... am I surprised? Not at all- I could tell from the wording of those emails it was only a matter of time till sex happened- I got in the way of that.

And then he made it worse by saying he would understand and forgive/move on if I were to have an A... a 'hall pass' so to speak! Damnit! I have boundaries and always have! Do guys hit on me??? Hell yeah, but I remain within my respected boundaries. My thoughts have ALWAYS gone to my H and kids FIRST.

It's fucked up and it's selfish.... to only think of yourself

Skan posted 4/22/2014 14:17 PM

Please tell me that you immediately booted him out of bed for even SUGGESTING that your morals were as crappy as his! What an ass.

hopefulmother posted 4/22/2014 15:20 PM

So sorry, mine didn't admit that he ended his EA because he wanted it to go physical till a year later. It was when he wanted it to be physical, that it felt wrong to him. Sure, he admitted to daydreaming about having sex in his staff room. But, not till a year into R that he was ready for the next move.

Another example of how selfish they are at controlling everything. Even our recovery. He knew that I would have dropped his ass if he admitted that from the beginning.

I would be wary of the "free pass". Sounds like he feels overly guilty for just an "EA" to me.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 3:24 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

wanttogoforward posted 4/23/2014 17:02 PM

Update on the issue....

We talked, and I feel it didn't go so well. I told him how it hurt to have HER as the reason he didn't take it to a PA and how I wanted to hear that his family are his first priority.

Of course I was told that this was misunderstood and that I was always the first priority for why he didn't sleep with her- hopefulmother- thanks for the warning that it was likely PA. The ONLY reason I am quite certain it was not was due to the lack of opportunity they had. Shortly after I found the EA she moved hours away. Plus she was preggers with yet another kid (no worries- she was PG before she met H).

The reason I have such a hard time believing 'I' was ever the priority is because when I confronted him with email evidence he went into such damage mode... changed passwords.... etc. he took NO responsibility for his actions cause they were 'just friends'..... Even after I knew he still talked to her, emailed multiple times a day, flirted, sent gifts, etc...... and he tells me I was the first priority in his life.

If this is how the first priority is treated I cannot imagine how an enemy would be treated.

I get where the hall pass bullshit comes in because he did have a PA as we were engaged and I didn't know until several kids and years later. Then he walked out on us once when the kids were young with NO explanation- I always suspected another woman- no confirmation on that ever, and he always denies. Then this last EA. I know he feels guilty about it all- guilt is not what I want him to feel- I want action- strong action proving he is in this marriage with both feet. And I told him that last night. I told him if he couldn't live with the consequences of the hole in my heart that might never close completely then he should not be married to me.

I do have a few days away from him due to work so I can decompress and think about what it is I can live with.

The thing of it is I admit to having not a lot of sympathy for his trigger- I have them ALL the time and I cannot avoid the trigger places- the place he wanted to take her to eat, certain treats on store shelves, holidays. I CANNOT AVOID these things, and thought he should just go get over his trigger.... maybe it was selfish on my part. I recognize that and feel bad in part. I took care of his trigger by going there myself so he didn't have to. I DID make it clear that because he triggered he should understand MY triggers- only he should multiply how he felt times 1,000! He didn't have much to say after that. All I can hope is that this trigger is a lesson for him in empathy for me.

hopefulmother posted 4/23/2014 21:01 PM

That damage control is all part of the "fog". They will swear up and down that you were the first priority and that they had no intentions of leaving you.

They were "just friends". Yeah, that they happened to like and get to know better. Like that was a good idea when you are married? Like that was respectful to you? Like you want to be in a relationship with someone that can develop those feelings and that emotional connection with someone else? Like that shit doesn't hurt any less?

Any WS that believes that (as that was my fWH excuse as well "just friends that I was getting to know" "it didn't mean anything" "I didn't think I was doing anything wrong as long as I didn't sleep with her")needs some education on EAs. Print out stuff from the healing library for him to read. Purchase the "Not Just Friends" book. He clearly has boundaries issues and after all this time, has yet to do some deep soul searching. He also hasn't done much to heal himself or change himself. It is still all about him and his loss.

I am glad he wants to R. But, don't let that crap be used as an excuse. He needs IC and he needs to dig deeper than that. If he is still triggering...there are some emotional issues and attachment to the A that really need addressed.

So sorry that you have to focus on not only your healing after several A's, but he is dragging you through his as well.

hopefulmother posted 4/23/2014 21:05 PM

BTW: I think the guy is riddled with guilt. He is never going to heal and make your M whole if he can't come clean about the missing time when he left.

Lowlow posted 4/24/2014 01:30 AM

I just want to say, I have heard you all and feel so deeply for you. Thank you for posting your thoughts on this issue. I have been thinking in a very similar way and have been unable to articulate my thoughts on this issue. That the reason he is with me now is because of her???

And I can so absolutely relate to what you are saying about everything. That deeply embedded sense of entitlement that the WS just cannot articulate and likely ever admit to, the selfishness of the entire act..... All I want him to tell me is that I didn't matter. I just want him to be honest about that.

And then I want to hear why I'm worth repairing the relationship... When I ask him this question, all I get is "I wanted to see if there was anything left for us". What? Like I don't have any redeeming qualities? So then I ask another way (just in case he misunderstood me the first time). I ask "why do you love me"? And the reply I get is "I don't know, I just love you"

So let me get this straight. You have a 2 year EA/PA and you were ready to leave me until she dumped your ass, and now you can't tell me why I am worth it or why this marriage is worth repairing???? And I'm supposed to feel good about this???

Ostrich80 posted 4/24/2014 01:39 AM

WTGF...you have some really valid concerns and questions. I totally get what your saying. My ws also didnt understand or I should say, pretended not to understand why these types of questions, I desperately needed answers to. They are damn sure important ones and its infuriating to not have them acknowledged or validated. Just exhausting isn't it?

wanttogoforward posted 4/24/2014 06:20 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies. And yes, it is exhausting...... as for him getting help that is unlikely. He has a dr. he checks in with every 6 mo. for his meds. She is not someone I want him to talk to as he once told her some things and then repeated them to me... stuff like she was "shocked" that I had his passwords and didn't trust him and I was "controlling" (bitch please!) She doesn't know me and I bet she didn't know the entire story.... and had never been cheated on.

As for getting him to read the books.... I bought them! Many of them! Over a year ago.... and he briefly read part of Not Just Friends and then quit! A few months ago I hid them just to see if he would ever ask for them back to actually read. He hasn't! I guess I am not shocked about that.

The sad part is I love him. And I know on some level he loves me back. I am certain that when his EA started it WAS truly innocent and he didn't intend for it to become what it did. Saying that tho does not make the pain go away. It does not invalidate the hurt he caused and the damage I still feel years later. He did do many things over the past few years to attempt to make me feel better but it is still just not enough. I know his reading those books might help, but doubt if he will. I do think he is still very guilt ridden over the whole thing, and wonder why so much guilt.....

hopefulmother posted 4/24/2014 12:43 PM

They don't know how to answer it, because they lack empathy. They are self-centered, selfish, and narcissistic (some more than others). They can't even fathom there is someone else in their relationships other than themselves. Your feelings don't factor. What is the worst for a narcissist? To be dumped. They are going to focus on what they didn't get. They can't believe that someone else didn't want them. They will keep you around for their own self-absorbed purposes. They just can't be alone, because they always need someone to mirror their self worth. You may just be a looking glass to him...not a person with feelings, ambitions, dreams, and a basic right to be happy and valued.

wanttogoforward posted 4/24/2014 16:13 PM

Thanks :) Honestly though I don't think my H is NPD. He isn't usually ALL about him. It has been these few times during our relationship where it's like he gets stressed and scared and loses his mind. This last is what I would consider a MLC- he had so many of the classic signs. He had outlived his father by then, kids were almost grown, etc.

I will say during our conversation he said he just wants me to be happy again- with or without him, and he would understand either way as he deserves whatever is coming since he destroyed me. On some level I think he gets the damage he did.... I'm just not so sure he feels this life changing event for me is as big for him.... maybe he won't get it until the roles are reversed- he said a physical affair would feel more damaging to him and wanted to know how I would feel. To me there is NO DIFFERENCE! PA or EA- I've been the BS for BOTH! It sucks and neither were easy to absorb and recover from.

This last A was the hardest likely because I thought our M was great- we got along and agreed on almost everything, rarely fought, had a good sex life, talked like we were best friends, everything. Maybe that is why it is taking me sooo long to move forward, even though I desperately want to.