WS had a PA 5 years ago and it went on for about 6 months. I suspected but had no clue how to handle it and finally they were caught by the OW's spouse and it was over. WS was remorseful, did all the right things and things have been good until now.
During the reconciliation years we bought a cabin that is about an hour away from our main residence and since I'm retired now I spend allot of time here. I went home to the main house a month ago for a week so I could get things in order to put the house on the market. The plan was to build on the property where the cabin is. While I was home we had dinner and were sitting around having drinks, WS is a heavy drinker, He is also LE as was I until I retired, anyway next thing I know we're arguing. I leave the room and shut the door in the den to ignore his crap and all of a sudden I hear him talking on the phone to someone. This is at about 1 AM so I quietly open the door and stand and listen, I can hear him talking to a woman. I confront him, he goes ballistic but he then goes and passes out. I get his phone and see the number which he has in his phone as unknown and go online and find out who she is. It's a name I had never heard of and she lives in another state 3 hours away. He did say he knew her from work and that she is a "friend", aren't they all?
This is the weird part to me, initially in the first few days he blocked her calls and showed remorse. I was pissed off so I moved some things out of that house came back to the cabin. Without knowing what a 180 was I guess I sort of did that. For the first week he was all about reconciling etc.. Then out of the blue he starts talking divorce and how we'll always be friends' blah, blah. But that was kind of hit and miss too, more so when he's drinking so it was kid of up and down.
So last Monday he took the day off and stayed at the cabin and we had a good day but I cold tell something was up even though he was denying talking to this woman. He went to bed around 11 PM and I stayed up for a bit. I go down the hall and I hear him talking to someone on the phone in the bedroom and confront him. He throws the phone down, then grabs it and instantly goes into asshole mode, listing all my flaws etc. Then he starts loading his stuff up to leave and this is around midnight. So I help him load his truck by throwing his shit on the lawn, piece by piece. It was quite the scene but damn it felt good.
I have pretty much limited my contact with him to texts mainly about finances and I did tell him I have an appointment with an attorney. He will call and will want to engage but if I ask him about this phone friend he won't say a word and will start getting nasty. We had a verbal exchange yesterday and he is extremely protective of this phone a friend in another state even though I have her contact info. I have no intention of calling her I really could care less about her, I just have this "need" to know more about the situation. I don't think it's been going on for long, probably after Christmas this past year just given his change in being protective of his phone.
I know compared to what so many of the people here are going through this is nothing like the sadness so many are enduring but I literally have no one to talk to about this and even though I think I'm doing things right, I just need someone to listen and say that I'll be OK and tell me if there is something more I should be doing.
We have been married for 15 years and really for the most part it's been a good marriage. That is the part I'm struggling with. I believe his drinking is part of his problem in his cheating, the guy simply can not stop himself from drunk dialing people.
I am open to any suggestion anyone has here, I just feel like I am floating in a sea of confusion. The weirdest thing to me is that he dropped the PA like a hot potato when he got caught but this is a phone affair and he is acting like the typical fog immersed ass that everyone has written about. What is the difference there?
I have to say that I really don't think your husband was very remorseful back when his first affair was discovered. Being honest, 5 years is a LONG time to be involved with someone and I think by that point, he was far beyond the guilt and remorse and everything else. Hell, the affair only stopped because they were CAUGHT, not because he couldn't stand the guilt anymore. So I think he put on a show of being remorseful, but down deep, he wasn't.
His activity right now pretty much proves my point. Someone who is truly remorseful "gets" it; they are painfully aware of the horrific damage they caused and would never allow history to repeat itself by going down that road again. Nor would they ever want to put their spouse through that type of devastation for a second time around. Not a truly remorseful husband, anyway.
But here he is, once again acting the fool and being a verbally abusive nasty ass when you call him on his low life behavior. Then he adds insult to injury by insulting you horribly and showing absolutely NO care or concern for you (let alone, respect!)
This is not a man who 'gets' it. He didn't get it the first time around and he doesn't get it now.
Lastly, you only assume he 'dropped' the last OW like a hot potato. Most cheaters usually stay in some form of contact with their affair partners after a D-Day; they just get a lot sneakier and much more careful about how they stay in contact so they're not caught again. So it's entirely possible they continued that affair another year or two or three before it burned out on it's own.
If your husband and his OW truly did cut all ties on D-day and didn't go farther underground, it could also be because her husband threatened divorce (or a custody battle for their kids) if she didn't dump your husband immediately. Those are 2 very possible scenarios that would explain his acceptance of the end of that affair. Either the decision was made FOR him by the BH, or he continued the affair deeper underground with here and didn't have to go through 'withdrawal' from her because they were still together.
How are you so positive that this latest one is 'only' a phone affair? You'd be amazed at how cheaters can get away with crap when they're skilled enough. Unfortunately, after 5 years of affair experience, your husband is a pro.
It's pretty clear that you're about to enter Round #2. I wouldn't be too quick to forgive him again, though. The man is unremorseful.
Good luck to you.
[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 12:29 PM, April 25th (Friday)]
At the minimum, he's having an EA. It's still betrayal, no matter if this particular EA has progressed to a PA or not. I would still go and get a complete STD/HIV panel of test run because the one thing that you do know, is that he's a liar and is fully capable of lying to you. So make sure that your health is protected. I would also see a lawyer so that you know where you stand should you decide to cut your losses and leave. You don't have to do anything more than have that initial consult to find out your rights, but knowledge is power, and you should become as informed as possible.
If you are of any mind to attempt R at all, the bare minimum I would suggest is that he goes completely alcohol free, joins some sort of AA-type support group, gives you full transparency to all of his electronic/social media devices, and write a NC letter to his EA. But frankly, it doesn't seem to me as if he's interested in R at this time nor that he has a clue of what remorse is, since he is still defending his AP to you and choosing her over you by defending her and ignoring your legitimate needs.
This is a time that you're going to have to do some very deep and critical thinking about what you want, what you deserve, and what you want the rest of your life to look like. Please come back often for support. We've got your back!
D-Day, June 10, 2012
I am guessing that when you say he was remorseful from his prior A. That he said the right things, and more likely swept what was done under the rug, opposed to going to therapy, and figuring out his why's. Doing the truly hard work of R.
If I'm wrong, I apologize, but based on his behaviors currently it tells me that he never really got it.
You have no control over what he does, and you know that his drinking to oblivion is a perfect example of that. Make sure that you take steps to protect yourself financially at this point. Make sure he isn't spending money on this Phone Friend. Take what is rightfully yours, and open your own account, and change the locks on the cabin. See the attorney. Don't feel obligated to share your next move with him either. All that does is give him information to manipulate you with.
Now if you want to try to R you need to figure out what you want and need from him for this to happen. Be prepared to lay it all out on the line, because as soon as he gets presented with D or S papers he is going to beg you to forgive him and do whatever you want.
Go get yourself tested for STD's too. I have to agree that this Phone Friend could be more than you suspect. Protect your health.
Keep reading, keep posting, and remember it's actions that show you who they are, not the magical poetry they spew from their pie holes.
Your WH seems a bit like mine. As others have said unfortunately he doesn't sound remorseful. And believe me it's a hard thing to go through. It's important if you want to stay together that he find out why and work to fix it. My WH didn't the first time and I'm back here three years later.
No matter what, with the help of family, friends and SI you will get through this. Know that you don't have to make a decision today or tomorrow.
The PA was 5 years ago in 2008, it lasted about 6 months, we all worked for the same company. I was pretty sure when it started and I know when and how it ended, her spouse contacted me and gave me a bunch of e-mails. I guess I'm as sure as I can ever be that it was over back then. He gave me all his passwords, told me both times that she tried to contact him, gave me copies of the emails but again did all contact cease? I know he left his phones out where I could see them anytime and all that type of stuff. But I also believe he dumped her fast because "he" was sick of her. There was a fair amount of drama with her so I think he was moving on anyway. So I probably was just a safe harbor. But we have gotten along well for the past 5 years and there have been some good times.
You are right I can't swear that this is not a PA but there is a fair distance to go to carry on a PA. WS doesn't fly and the phone friend lives in a state near the west coast there is a 3 hour time zone difference. I suppose she could have flown in to see him but I do see him on the weekends and he works a ton of hours. I know he's actually working his boss is a very good friend of mine and his boss knows what's going on.
There is no doubt he acted the fool when he left here last Monday night, I actually called local LE to try and get him stopped for drunk driving. I did see from our bank account activity that he spent the night in a local hotel which was probably why he didn't get arrested.
He just started being protective of his phone the last few months and although it noticed it, I didn't really do anything about it. I know he was not protecting his phone during the holidays as I answered it several times. This new relationship is within the past few months just from the way I've noticed the phone issue.
I will go on with the attorney appointment and will more than likely file. I seriously do not get the EA type of affair. Are they worse? He's acting exactly like he did when he had the PA listing all my flaws anytime I confront him but he is fiercely protective of this phone friend, I don't remember that when he had the PA 5 years ago. I knew he OW back then and used to say rude things about her all the time to him back then and he never protected her the way he is this phone person
I have a ton of friends but I can't talk about this to any of them, I appreciate the advice and the welcome. Feeling very alone.
I think the next few months are going to be brutal for me emotionally.
I did open my own bank account and I have online access to our joint account, WS has never set up an online access to our accounts, I just paid our joint bills online last weekend before things went bad. I have to admit I did amuse myself in the first 24 hours by transferring half of our savings to my new account at my new bank and also taking half the income tax refund and moving that. WS is a money guy so the first phone call I got from him after the blow up was about money that wasn't in the account when he made a cash withdrawal.
We have always talked allot on the phone but not since the blow up so that's probably good. I just need the strength to not cave and talk to him.
I'm so sorry he has done this to you again. I hope you have some good freinds you can rely on to help get you through. ((((kodiak))))
[This message edited by norabird at 4:29 PM, April 25th (Friday)]
I know I'll survive but I think it will be awhile before I feel normal again. I have many things to keep me busy but I still feel very alone.
Thanks to all for the advice.
My husband had an EA. I see certain similarities between his EA and your husband's. And with hindsight, I feel that depression was at the root of my own husband's actions.
You asked about the difference between your husband's actions now and the PA. I think that the difference is probably the fantasy element. When the PA was discovered, it acted like a cold shower and he emerged very quickly, especially since, from what you say, he may already have been tiring of the Other Woman anyway. His long-distance emotional affair is further from reality. He doesn't have to deal with the OW's physical presence; he can fantasize about perfect love-making; end a difficult conversation whenever he wants by simply putting done his phone...... Basically, at the moment, it's like a Harlequin romance, because fantasy is easier and more enjoyable than reality. And if he's depressed, he probably hates his real-world self and his real-world life and prefers to stay in the fantasy.
He needs to be forced to come back to reality. And to this end, I think you have done very well so far! I think his talk of divorce was the fantasy talking. You'd gone and he felt briefly liberated. He has told himself that you are the cause of all his misery (you aren't, of course!) and you left. So at first he was resentful and lonely. Hence the talk of reconciliation. Then he drank; the fantasy kicked in again and he started to imagine a scenario where he was divorced and probably with OW. I predict that it won't last. Unless the OW seriously wants him for herself and is ready to come across country and grab him. That would complicate things. It might scare him and bring him out of the fantasy very quickly. But it's entirely possible that he would initially be enthusiastic and you'd then have a PA to cope with. (I still think that it wouldn't last, because I think that in his heart he still wants you. He just doesn't like himself.)
If you would prefer reconciliation if possible, then I think you'll need to draw your line in the sand. I'm glad you've made an appointment with an attorney. It will make your husband see that you mean business and might be enough to make him start to emerge from the fog. I hope so. But even if he seems to have come out of the fog, I think that I'd continue with the divorce until you have seen hard evidence of an attempt to change things. In this case, I don't think that simply cutting off the EA will be enough. Because your husband's reluctance to stop, even after discovery indicate that currently, he desperately needs the fantasy. Not, in my opinion, the woman. The fantasy and the escape from reality. That is what he is protecting so fiercely. And if he stays depressed, I think he might re-offend.
It seems to me that if you are to reconcile. he must first face up to his need to deal with the depression and get medical treatment, instead of relying on the alcohol. And to limit his drinking. And if I were in your position, I would make firm and sustained action on that a big part of your line in the sand.
[This message edited by Cally60 at 3:52 PM, April 28th (Monday)]