"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

plewpiter posted 4/26/2014 10:26 AM

I finally got my WW to read the book How To Help Your Spouse Heal... and she took it very well. It seems like she has finally started to "get it", and I was honestly overjoyed. She started doing and saying all of the things that she should have done a year ago, and apologized for the way she had done things wrong in terms of showing remorse, NC, TT, etc.

When I asked her to read the book (in an email), I also gave her an ultimatum of complete honesty and transparency. I said to read the book first so that she can understand what I mean by that, as well as understand the torment I have been going through. She read the book immediately, taking time out of her work day! Her apologies and remorse were immediate.

When I talked about transparency in the email, I specifically told her to not "clean up" any emails, texts, facebook messages, etc. that she thought I would take the wrong way. I specifically told her that it was this type of withholding the truth and TT (and also lying about it previously on multiple occasions) that has sent me in a tailspin and re-destroyed any trust that we had been building.

So this was Wednesday that I emailed and she read the book. We talked and emailed (we seem to communicate about some of this stuff better through written word) over the last two days. I again stressed the complete honesty, telling me everything, good and bad, and that it would be a million times better to discover any additional "bad" stuff by her telling me, as opposed to me finding it in an email or text or something. I suggested that she just assume that I had already seen everything, whether I really had or not.

I guess she didn't think I had seen any of her recent communications, because when I looked at her facebook messages this morning, there was one glaring omission. She had had a kind of flirty conversation over the last month (only maybe 10 short one line messages back and forth) with a former lover of hers (not the current OP). It was the type of conversation that might seem harmless unless you knew their history, which was a short but intense fling about 5 years ago when he was single and she was just getting divorced from her first husband. The facebook conversation dipped into "reminiscing" territory, both wondering to each other what life would have been like if they had stayed together.

So in the context of her EA she had while with me, I think it's way out of bounds to even be contacting this guy, let alone mentioning the things they did. This is kind of how the current EA started, with seemingly harmless emails and texts while WW and I were dating. The fact that she deleted the conversation is all the more damning that she knew it was out of bounds.

What really gets me is that she chose to cover it up/lie of omission. I've told her on multiple occasions that continuing to lie and cover up is the worst thing that she can possibly do to me in our R, short of continuing in the EA/PA.

Am I right to be so shattered right now? It's just so soon after her acting so believably remorseful, and taking some real action steps for our R. She may be "getting it" in some ways, but I'm afraid she might be a pathological liar, or something.

(I haven't confronted her about it yet. She's gone this morning until this afternoon with her mom and my daughter.)

LosferWords posted 4/26/2014 12:05 PM

You are absolutely right to be hurt by this, plewpiter. This is a huge breach of trust. Talk to her about it, and hold fast to your boundaries. Wishing you luck.

So sorry to hear of this. Sending you strength.

Tren0R201 posted 4/26/2014 12:15 PM

Seems to me she's doing all the right things just to keep you on side. You seem to have done all the heavy lifting and pointing out what she should be reading and doing. Surely she has to be doing this by herself?
I wouldn't confront her just yet. See what her next moves are over the coming days but it doesn't look good.

Skan posted 4/26/2014 14:39 PM

Quite often, even after they "see the light," you have to shine a spotlight onto their behavior and call a BS on something that they neglect or "forget" about. I went through this with my FWH. I told him on DDay Friday that he needed to get rid of all porn on his computer. He deleted some stuff that night. Saturday morning I looked, and there were links to stories. I told him get rid of ALL porn. He deleted some stuff. That night, I looked and there were photos of women in various states of undress.

I told him that on Sunday night I was going to go through his computer and if I found one, just one sexually suggestive thing, I was throwing the damned thing in the pool. His excuse? He didn't think that photos of barely clad women were "porn."

I told him he was not too bright for someone with a degree.

[This message edited by Skan at 2:39 PM, April 26th, 2014 (Saturday)]

plewpiter posted 4/26/2014 23:58 PM

Thanks for the replies, even if the advice differs slightly.

This is really getting me more in the boat of the 'deactivate Facebook' crowd. Too many ways to connect with people that you may have never given another thought in a non digital world. Now you can see pictures of them, 'follow' them, reconnect with them even before sending the first pm to them. It's a slippery slope for those predisposed to deception to begin with.

Bobbi_sue posted 4/27/2014 06:22 AM

Seems to me she's doing all the right things just to keep you on side. You seem to have done all the heavy lifting and pointing out what she should be reading and doing.

I agree. I have never believed that you can read a book that tells you how to be remorseful, and suddenly you will actually "be remorseful."

It will explain to her the actions she should take to appear remorseful. But remorse comes from within, it is not something you get from somebody or a book explaining what it is supposed to be like. They are either remorseful, or they are not. Forcing them to counselors and books and wishing it so, will not make it so.

And my best guess is that she is not remorseful.

dailyflowers posted 4/27/2014 06:56 AM

have to agree with Bobbie Sue, your WW is remorseful from the inside, or she's regretful. there's a major difference.

I don't need to deactivate my FB account, or wear wedding rings, or a hat or a pin, or any outward signs of my "marriedness", it comes from within. There's not a person, male or female, that I might come into contact with who might get the impression that I am available for any sort of improper relationship. It's not that I don't get "feelers" once in a wild blue moon, it's that I don't give off that vibe.

it's the "I'm taken" vibe that our wayward's need to get, and it comes from within, and they have to WANT to project that, KWIM???

plewpiter posted 4/28/2014 22:41 PM

Update:

Since she agreed to give me all her passwords, etc. I asked her for the Facebook password. She gave it freely, and I checked to see that indeed the message to her old flame was still deleted. I called her out on it immediately, asking her if she knew what was missing. She tried denying it at first, but quickly told me that, yes, she had deleted it. I was at work, and was able to talk with her right away. She admitted that, after reading the book, she realized it was wrong to have engaged with this guy, regardless of the context. She claims that it was innocent, and I guess I kind of believe her. Opportunity to meet up with this guy is nil. But I tried to stress how this is how so many EA/PA's start, just an innocent reconnection with old flames, even back in HS. She said that she got it, and understood why it could be dangerous.

The other thing she admitted was that deleting the message instead of admitting it to me was the wrong thing to do. I told her how much it hurts to have to discover stuff on my own, as opposed to her telling me. Again, I felt that she understood. She knows she has problems and needs to work on them with an IC and MC.

Some context on where we are at right now, so you don't think she is totally clueless and heartless (because she is definitely not): She's putting in her two-weeks notice tomorrow for work, even without a new job completely solidified (a couple of good leads, though). She immediately deleted any ex-BF's and old flames from facaebook today. She's read the book, and seems to finally be getting it. I will be patient with her, because I really do see great progress over the last week. She's doing and saying the right things, and without my prompting. I guess things are looking up, but I know there may be a few more surprises.

Also, she has been really sick the last few months (kidney stones, strep throat twice, bad sinus infection right now), on top of the stress of finding a new job, and her dog that she has had 12 years has cancer and we need to make a decision to put her down soon. I really feel for her, because the prospect of your husband leaving you, even if I would be completely in the right, is just the icing on the crap cake for her right now. She really is trying, and I don't want to beat her down more than she already is right now. It's the balance between justice and mercy.