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DTERMINED2SURVIV posted 4/27/2014 11:02 AM

I just made a post a few days ago talking about my ďHIGHĒ and as I predicted it would be followed by a low. I also stated that there were things I could complain about, and triggers but I wanted to focus on the good things. After all even at this moment, my gut tells me itís all okay. This morning though my I had to sit my happy ass back down somewhere. Things are never that easy. I also posted recently about not feeling comfortable posting in R. Iím glad I havenít. I donít feel safe enough to post there yet. I donít want to give myself false hope. Iím just NOT convinced yet that he wonít do it again. I donít know if Iíll ever feel 100% but I know I donít feel safe enough to put my guard down. I was given a reason to feel unsafe again last night but Iíll get to that in a minute.

The reasons Iíve been triggering: Well my SO has been posting a lot about his family and also his faith. We both are in the word and trying to build our relationship in faith even tighter. About 2 weeks ago after going NC for a few months, OW writes my SO from a new FB page.

She says: Hey, Iíve been thinking about you a lot lately and wanted to let you know I forgive you. Iíve been getting back into the word and in my faith and I just wanted to let you know. Also, Oc is doing good.
He Says: Thanks I forgive you too. Iím glad you guys are doing good.
She says: Can you call me?
He doesnít reply.

I told SO, that I KNOW she is just using her fake religion to guilt him into being nice. She always just happens to be into the things heís into that heís posting about on FB. He said it may be true but thatís not his place to judge. Even if that is the reason, at least she is thinking about her faith. True, but donít let it fool you. He says it doesnít. Iím sitting next to him for this convo. I donít interject because itís his place to handle it. I donít expect NC but I DO expect transparency! Well on Easter my SO decides heís going to church, post about trying to do our girlsí hair and wishing mommy was home to help. (I had to work that morning) Well you know who decides to write him again. This time Iím not by him and we havenít really spoken about any action heíd like to take with OC or how to handle a future interaction. Amazingly I felt comfortable enough to move on and trust heíd tell me if she wrote again. The convo on Easter went something like this, not verbatim.

She says: (sends 2 pics of OC) Happy Easter.
He says: Aww, sheís so cute, thanks you too.
She says: When are you going to see her?
He says: Honestly ms.homewrecker, I donít know. I know we always start out on good terms with good intentions and it always turns into bullshit. I am really trying to stay in my faith and work on my family/relationship. I donít think itís okay to do that and keep coming around you and OC playing this ďwhat ifĒ game.
She says: Thatís okay I understand. (A few minutes go by with no response from him and she writes again)
She says: Well I really hope the best for you two. I hope everything goes good for you and your family. I will just explain all of this to OC when she gets older and I donít mean that in a bad way. Just letting you know Iím not going to lie to her.
He says: I didnít mean Iím cutting her out of my life completely. I just think its best that you and I donít have any contact at this point. I do want a relationship with her I just donít know how thatís possible right now.
She says: Well I donít think thatís fair to OC. Canít you just call me so we can talk about this.
Again acknowledging she is just trying to get him on the phone so they can have this dramatic phone call and guilt him into just saying whatever so sheíll shut up he decides again to not call and not have any more contact as he stated his feelings already. Feelings by the way that I NEVER made him feel he had to say to her or talked him into feeling. He came up with this on his own. So that was last Sunday.

That conversation happened while I was at work. I verified he didnít call. The thing that stuck out to me though was the ďwhat ifĒ. Does he feel that way when heís around her? He said at the beginning of the EA AND PA he did before she got pregnant. Not a serious ďshould I leave?Ē but more along the lines of what if ms.d2s and I didnít work out. Or on our bad days he says he would think ďwhat ifĒ. He says he knows better than that now. He says the reason he stopped seeing OC is because when he would see her OW would make it about her instead of OC. Asking him things like ďdo you ever think about us being a familyĒ or ďif I didnít work at a nightclub would you have dated meĒ and a bunch of other ifs. To all of which he supposedly says no. (but during PA used to tell her these were the reasons why he couldnít be with her) Even if I asked him about the ďwhat ifĒ would I really believe his answer? No. Iíll just let my heart break silently wondering if thatís what he meant. Heíd probably say he was talking about her always asking what if.

Well last night I come home from work, He tells me he talked to OW on the phone. My heart drops. Sometimes you just get that ďthis is going to be shitty feelingĒ then you realize itís more like the runs shitty. Thatís what happened. I asked, what made you call her. He said he wanted to talk to her about possibly picking up OC to meet our children, grandparents, aunts and uncles for about 1-2 hours one day. She said no. They argued. Whatever. He said the call was about 15 min, they didnít agree on anything. I ask him what made him call her. He tells me that his mom called him shortly before and asked how OC was doing. He said he didnít know since he hadnít seen her. MIL then said she was upset she never got to meet her other grandbaby. I muttered ďthatís so unfairĒ he said why. I replied well did she ask about DS2? He says no. Of course not. As if DS2 doesnít exist. The thing about DS2 is that we placed him for adoption. It was the hardest most scary thing I have ever done in my life. One thing I can say looking back at that day is that I donít regret it. He has it made! 2 parents who both graduated with PHD from John Hopkins University, multiple yearly vacations, a ball pit and climbing wall in his basement, a college fund ALREADY (heís only 2). And it is completely OPEN. I can call anytime day or night and the adoptive mother does the same. Weíve became like family. I call her with big news in our life and she does the same with me even when it has nothing to do with DS2. MIL didnít want us to do adoption. She was in foster care and was molested so I understand where sheís coming from but this is completely different. I just hate that she will ask how OC is doing and act as if DS2 doesnít even exist. Anyways, back to the call. We donít talk much more about it. He just tells me to go online and check the phone record in the morning. Well, at 630 when Iím getting ready for work I decide to look in the hone and there is NOTHING. He deleted the call! When we got to my job I just broke down crying. He hit me with the ďI regret even telling youĒ I lash back saying I KNEW he was going to say that. Iím not upset that he called, or tried to be able to pick his child up. I didnít get upset until I looked in the phone and saw that even if for just a moment, he considered lying to me about it. I tell him that and I see he still doesnít get it. ďWell I did tell youĒ is what he said. I donít know, thatís true he did tell me but Iím still upset. What do you guys think? I looked at the phone records and sure enough the call was there. Only it was closer to 30 minutes. Then she sent 9 text in a row after and he responded to none. Iíve asked him what those messages were, he says her yelling at him. He said the only reason he thought about not telling me is because he felt like it was pointless. He called to try and be a father and got shot down, so whatís the point sort of thing. He said obviously if she would have said yes then we would have talked about it.

The other problem Iím having is that Iím pregnant again. My birth control has worked wonders for me. I contemplated abortion but just didnít feel it was for me. My pregnancy is high risk. My previous OB says its life threatening for me. Iím 23 weeks now, seeing a specialist probably going to have a cesarean hysterectomy which I donít mind the hysterectomy part so much. I donít care to have any more children after this one. Iíve tried to tie my tubes twice, both times failed. Iíve also tried the IUD but unsuccessful because when they tried to put it in they noticed a tumor on my uterus. I have found out itís a girl!! That makes me happy. The funny part to the story is that when I asked my SO how he could place DS2 for adoption and have him live half a country away and feel like he must be a crucial part in OCís life. He says because DS2 is in a two parent EXTREMELY stable home and DS2 has a father, OC doesnít have either. True enough but still. So weíve been talking about adoption with this one. The same family that has DS2 would love to have another child. They always said if by chance I ever became pregnant they would love to have another. We thought it was a joke but here we are. They have already offered that if we are considering they would love to have her and that way DS2 will have his sibling. That is the ONLY way I would do it. I just donít know. I want to keep her so bad. I want to have her nuzzle on my chest, hear my heartbeat to comfort her. I want to hold her all the time, to ease her cries. We just financially are in a terrible place. We donít even have a car to fit all of us in. At the same time I know her life will be 100x better with them, and we will still be a part of it. I canít help but feel like that I will be angry. Angry that the little girl OC gets to be kept by her mother and USED as a pawn. Used as a piece in her motherís game. All because he said wouldnít leave his family so she thinks by having his child, suddenly THEY are a family. That she has some pull in his life. She doesnít realize its OC that means something, no her. I just donít knowÖ.

Most the time, now, I feel good about my delivery. I feel itís going to go great. But I fear what if something does happen to me. What about my kids. Who will take care of them. The weird thing is I think the adoptive family of DS2 would help all of them and SO. But what if. And wouldnít the next most logical choice if something happened to me, is for my SO to try and build a family with OW/OC. UGH. Iím thinking too much. He swears he never would. He says he couldnít. Sheís been with everyone in town, how could he proudly call her his. Whatever. She was good enough to fuck and good enough for you to slip up and take away the one thing I had over all the OW, YOUR KIDS! I deserve a ring. I deserve a faithful husband. I deserve the loyalty I gave him. I deserve love. Anways this is somehow turning into a rant. I just have a lot going on, could use some prayers not just for me but for SO too. He needs them just as much.

I should have named my post more appropriately.....something like "Clusterfuck"

[This message edited by DTERMINED2SURVIV at 11:19 AM, April 27th (Sunday)]

LeftOutintheCold posted 4/27/2014 11:13 AM

Wow, that is a lot on your plate. I'm so sorry!!! I really don't have advice, but wanted to let you know I heard you and I am sending prayers out for you and your family. (((dtermined2surviv)))

kiki1 posted 4/27/2014 11:22 AM


Im sorry, this sounds so horrible. I have no good advice for you, i just want you to know you've been heard and im sending hugs your way,,,,,,,,,

I certainly hope your day gets better


kiki1 posted 4/27/2014 11:22 AM


Im sorry, this sounds so horrible. I have no good advice for you, i just want you to know you've been heard and im sending hugs your way,,,,,,,,,

I certainly hope your day gets better


DTERMINED2SURVIV posted 4/27/2014 12:41 PM

Thanks for the support. Im prett lost at this point.

I know one thing is I cant stand OW! When they argued she said "your just trying to save your relationship thats why you dont want to come around, you just want to make her happy" DUH! But part 2 of that statement isnt true. She has said things as if *I* am the reason he doesnt talk to her on the phone or come and hang out. Thats his choice! and she finds it so much easier to blame me for her shitty decisions to have sleep with a man and have his child to try and steal him rather then accepting responsibility. Maybe she should realize its HER fault she doesnt have her own family and that OC doesnt have a live in father, NOT MINE! One time she even said, "i dont know why she doesnt want you coming to my house, its not like we couldnt mess around in your truck" wow real classy. And with OC in there too? I cant stand this girl. Ugh venting again.

Skan posted 4/27/2014 12:42 PM

(((hugs))) You have so much on your plate. I'm sorry about that. Frankly, I just don't even see how you can tolerate any contact that your WH has with OW/OC. Especially since OW is seemingly doing her best to end up in bed with your WH again.

karmahappens posted 4/27/2014 12:48 PM


You do have a lot going on.

If I were in your sitch WRT the OW/OC I would make a boundary for this.

I would make no contact a rule and any contact needed for the OC would have to go through me.

I would be the one to get/make calls, make arrangements for visitation etc. providing you want and he wants to visit the OC?

Once you set this guideline into play, and your husband sticks to it, I guarantee you she won't be calling or trying to manipulate him into OC talk....

The two of you need to be a team here. Right now it seems like there is no plan of action and everyone's floundering, at best.

The OW feels in control and wants to pull your WS back to her with the OC. Remove that from the equation.

Come up with a doable plan for the two of you.

The OC and OW aren't going away, so you have to prepare for the future with your safety in mind.

DTERMINED2SURVIV posted 4/27/2014 14:33 PM

Thanks Karmahappens...
Ive heard that before and never really felt it was something I could ask for. I know 100% for sure shes not going to go for it because her thing is always it is "their" child and I have nothing to do with it. She just loves that. BUT, I do think my SO will be more willing to do that now. He really seems not to care to talk to OW, I just dont want him to feel less then a man, but maybe I can get him to see its a solution to her bitching and crying out for attention. You are definitely right. It would stop it. I bet then she wouldnt even contact at all about him seeing oc since it isnt about OC anyways. The initial problem is that most the time my SO says he doesnt really want anything to do with OC. Then I know sometimes it probably hurts him to not be there for her. Just like with DS2. Most the time I know ive made the right choice, but some days I wish I could hold him. I dont want to push my SO into anything. If he should decide he does want to then thats the perfect way to go. I'll bring it up to him soon and see what he says. Seems simple enough! Idk, like i said, ive heard it before but it makes more sense now. Maybe because I think he'd go for it now.

918Mama posted 4/27/2014 16:11 PM


I just want to give you so many hugs. I cannot even imagine how you are keeping yourself together right now!!!

There's so much for you to figure out and I know it can feel extremely overwhelming. So you're going to have to take a triage approach here.

Are you familiar with maslow's hierarchy of needs? I'm going to post them below, in case you aren't. It's basically a way to categorize the needs every human has. At the bottom are the most important needs and then you work your way to the top from there.

Don't worry about the baby right now. You really do have time to figure that all out. And truthfully, it's probably going to be a game time decision for you. So relax on that for a bit.

You have some basic needs and some safety needs that need to be addressed first. Karma gave you some excellent advice about the boundaries that I think you should take, and it falls into the safety needs.

You have absolutely every right to request whatever you need to feel safe. Once everyone's basic needs are met, you focus on safety needs. Your SO isn't doing a good job of that. So, he needs to decide if he's in or out. If he's in, you two need to align on how to deal with the OW/OC situation. This is something the legal system can help you with. Get a paternity test, get court ordered visitation, get it all legally recorded. Then it takes the power away from her. She doesn't get to say he doesn't get to take the child to see his family...he can do whatever he wants when it's his time for visitation. Put the legal system in between them and then it takes the power away from her.

As part of this process, establish a means for contact. An email address that you and he both have access to that OW can use. Your phone number in case of emergencies. Then change his number and delete all ways for her to contact him (Facebook, email, etc). Now she can't get ahold of him without you knowing. Lastly, he needs total transparency. Either he commits to not delete phone logs and text history, or he doesn't.

This guy has cheated on you 50 times and you've stuck by him during his incarceration. He needs to show his commitment at this point. If he's unwilling to provide what you need to feel safe, then you know exactly who he cares about...himself.

What you decide to do from that point on shows how you care about yourself. Are you willing to be treated like this or not?

Secure your needs first, then worry about how all the rest of the pieces will come together. There's a reason they tell parents to secure their oxygen masks on airplanes first. If you don't take care of yourself first, you won't be able to take care of others.

Take care of yourself D2S!!

1. Biological and Physiological needs - air, food, drink, shelter, warmth, sex, sleep.

2. Safety needs - protection from elements, security, order, law, limits, stability, freedom from fear.

3. Social Needs - belongingness, affection and love, - from work group, family, friends, romantic relationships.

4. Esteem needs - achievement, mastery, independence, status, dominance, prestige, self-respect, respect from others.

5. Self-Actualization needs - realizing personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences.

Ostrich80 posted 4/27/2014 16:32 PM

I should have named my post more appropriately.....something like "Clusterfuck"

Wow, that's exactly what I said to myself, when I read this .
I have no advice as this is a tangled mess of hurt feelings, anger, and probably every emotion known to mankind.
I just hope you can focus right now on that little babe your carrying who needs her mama healthy. Lord, this ow is a huge pain in the ass. I'm so sorry your dealing with this especially at a time when you really need your man to lean on.
Geez this is going to be a tough few months til delivery, please take care of yourself.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 4:34 PM, April 27th (Sunday)]

NeverAgain2013 posted 4/27/2014 17:07 PM

Why does it have to be YOU who keeps offering up her lady parts for sterilization and having all kinds of female problems and unwanted pregnancies instead of HIM getting a damned vasectomy???? Maybe if he HAD been more responsible about birth control and less freakin selfish about his own satisfaction, you wouldn't be dealing with multiple unwanted high-risk pregnancies - NOR would you be dealing with an OC situation for the next 21 years. And after ALL this has come about, adoptions, an unwanted high-risk pregnancy for you, an unplanned OC with someone who isn't his wife - after ALL this he still doesn't even consider doing a damned thing about it? What is WRONG with him? I'm sorry, but he's just disgusting.

I'd be dragging his ass down to a urologist so fast, his friggen head would spin.

Dtermined, I hate like hell to have to see you live your life like this, day after day after day after day, always wondering what he's doing and if he's calling her or contacting her or sneaking off to see her 'for the child,' or which way she's using to contact him that you might not know about. It's ridiculous and you shouldn't have to live that way. Unfortunately, this is basically a lifetime of this crap you didn't sign up for but nevertheless had dumped all over your front porch to have to live with. It's just never going to go away. I see a future of constant court cases between these two, child support reviews, fights, battles, legal crap, constant fights about providing health insurance or paying half for her braces or private schooling and childcare and all the expenses that go with raising a kid. She's just always going to be there, and so is the OC.

As someone else said, you can try to have all contact going forward be conducted between you and her (lucky you - like you signed up for that crap) but I guess it's better than nothing. Quite honestly, I don't believe for a second it will keep her from contacting him on the sly, but I'm just being realistic.

But your husband seriously needs to get a vasectomy NOW. He's done enough damage.

DTERMINED2SURVIV posted 5/1/2014 22:25 PM

Thanks again for the support! I need all the hugs prayers and mojo I can get right now. Im in a little better place today. I always go with my gut and it tells me as far as my SO and such, things are good. Still nervous about this delivery, ive been havin really sharp pains all day which is scary. My situaion is embarassing. I still havent told my family yet. I feel shameful that im in this situation. If it was the pregnancy and no A, or the A and no wouldnt be so bad. The story wouldnt sound so terrible. I honestly dont think my SO gets how serious this delivery will be. We are seeing a specialist on may 14th so hopefully he'll get it then. He is one of those deal with it when it comes people, and I am NOT! I want the answer and a plan months in advance!! This pregnancy should have been prevented and I did take measures to do so. Here I am though. I sort of want to tell my SO that if we place this child for adoption, he cannot have any relationship with OC. It sounds terrible. I never wanted to make him choose. But if he can choose to sign the papers to this child why cant he have NC with OC. Its not exactly the same. With this child we would still be involved, still get to talk to her, see her (maybe not as much as we'd like) watch her grow. But if OUR children mean so much more and he can sign over rights, then why would it be so hard give up a relationship with OC?

918mama: You are right about getting my priorities together. Some of this can wait.

Honestly I appreciate each and every one of you. Your views and all. I feel like the biggest mess on SI. You would never guess it if you saw me. I seem like I have it all together. I almost always have a smile on my face. When SO and I talk or I take lunch and he picks me up everyone sees this GREAT relationship. NOBODY would guess ANY of this is going on....Its so wierd. I feel like if people really knew they would either give up on me, or just plain not talk to me. So im grateful you all take time out to show me encouragement and support!!

[This message edited by DTERMINED2SURVIV at 10:29 PM, May 1st (Thursday)]

Flourgirl posted 5/1/2014 23:51 PM

You are not the biggest mess on here. Every single person has a story. Also you are not the broken one he is. You know this. We are here for you. You have already been given some great advice. I'm just going to add that I'm still praying for you and sending you good vibes. Focus on yourself. What is best for you? What do you want? It's time you need to focus on yourself.

FixYou71 posted 5/2/2014 00:11 AM

Sending you big hugs and lots of prayers. I don't know if his name is listed as father on the oc's birth certificate but if so there is no reason the state wouldn't mediate visitation for him and oc. The child is delivered to a mediator at a neutral location and picked up by other parent. No paths ever have to cross. Visitation is prearranged and agreed upon and communication never has to occur between the two parents unless they want it. The courts are the go between.

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