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Klove posted 4/27/2014 14:24 PM

OK SI- I've been hiding from you all day...
But the more I think about it, the more I realize who better than to empathize and advise than all of you wonderful people. I hesitated to post this because I know you were all so proud of me for my dealings with SMIF this week. I think I need some help with my bitch boots and I need to come clean about some things.

SMIF came this morning to get the kids and we chatted for a while about him having second thoughts about D. I tried so hard to keep Dawson's image in my mind- but found myself going down the path again with him.

Although this time there seems to be some changes that I'm having a hard time putting out of my head. For starters, he said that he has realized that the only adult who has really stuck by him in a true loving way was me. That he has been so stupid for throwing that love away. He acknowledged for the first time that after the A "ended" the first time, he should have been totally transparent with me- letting me see his phone etc. whenever I wanted. That is really the first time he's ever said it- even though it should be SO OBVIOUS! He always said he felt attacked and, today, said he had no right to feel that way given what I was feeling.
He said he had been going through old photos of us and realizing the good times we had together...he said one of the saddest things was looking at recent photos of us and thinking about how broken I must have been at those times after A and how he caused that and how sorry he was. He said he wishes we could do things absolutely differently. That he was so happy to be in IC because he was really examining parts of himself that he had never wanted to look in to.
He said he was looking into other jobs (which totally surprised me - at one point I had given him an ultimatum job or me because he worked with OW and he, basically, said he would never give up his job.)
He said he missed me. I said "I think you just miss having someone" and he said "I could have someone here if I really wanted her." alluding to OW. I asked if he had been talking to her- he said no.

He told me he loved me.

And I told him I couldn't trust him and doubted I ever could. I said "how can I trust you are not here to soften me up to agree to custody stuff and that you're not going to go home, call up OW and have a good chuckle about me?" He just looked sad at me and said he understood why I couldn't trust him and that was not his intention. He said "I doubt you will ever change your mind about us - I can see you are detached from me but I thought it was only fair for you to hear these new thoughts I'm having about acknowledging how awful I was to you...I am truly deeply sorry."

Help me out SI people! I know what you're going to say. He has a year...over a year to prove himself (which I told him.) I let this happen by engaging in the conversation - NC = no new hurts.
A month ago he was "liking" OW photo on fb and not remorseful. A month ago he was telling me he was going to "nail me to the wall" in court (which he now says was said in complete anger and he is sorry.) I know I can't trust this man.

And I don't know how I feel about it. I don't feel sad. Or happy. Or sickened. Or hopeful. Or angry anymore. I feel...numb. But it's been on my mind since he walked about the door 7 hours ago. My heart didn't flutter. I don't have hope. I don't want to get back together with him. I can't see it ever working. But I feel less of the resolve that I did on Thursday. Am I falling for classic hoovering? Am I an idiot?

And I just need to post one more thing out in the open here that I have been hesitant to say, but I gotta come clean somewhere and hopefully the behaviour will change.
I have been eating like a garbage can for almost 3 weeks now. I don't know what happened or what changed. I was taking such good care of myself at the beginning. Fruits, veggies, lean meats, water, water, water, exercise 5+ times a week. I lost about 10 lbs. For the last 3 weeks- no exercise. Tv. Booze booze booze, McDonalds, Chips, Pizza- just polished off Chinese Food and a Dr. Pepper. I think I've put 10 lbs on and then some.

SO- FOR ME the mind/body connection is huge. When I feel in control of the diet and exercise component of my life, I feel in control of everything. Starting tomorrow, I am back to healthy ways. And since I said it here, I have to do it, right?

Ok. I am yours for the 2x4-ing.
Gimme them! Gently please. Feeling a wee bit bruised...

[This message edited by Klove at 2:27 PM, April 27th (Sunday)]

gonnabe2016 posted 4/27/2014 14:42 PM

Please read this. You need it right now:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

caregiver9000 posted 4/27/2014 14:52 PM

No one can tell you whether he has fallen off the fence or not. But I see this as an opportunity.

If he is softening towards you and is "truly deeply sorry" then make him put his money where his mouth is. Get him into an immediate conversation about what truly deeply sorry looks like in a separation agreement.

I imagine it something like this:

SMIF, I can tell you have really been thinking about this and I praise your insight into how I am feeling. No one can say what our future may hold.... but our right now is still very difficult for me. I need to find stable footing, and confidence that I will be OK. What can you offer me to prove that you are invested in me and our children moving forward, .... no matter what our future is???

Get him to agree to the custody and support that you need and is fair without having to fight him for it and pay out the nose for lawyers to dicker.

This approach will tell you lots. Either he will agree and you will have the outcome you need to separate. And if you reconcile? fine and dandy!! You will be able to do that without worrying about his motive..

If he won't agree and immediately turns on the attack again, calling you a greedy bitch or accuses you of taking advantage, then you have forced his hand and there was NEVER a softening or true remorse.

Opportunity meet Klove. Good luck.

ThoughtIKnewYa posted 4/27/2014 15:10 PM

It's hoovering and here's the thing about that: If you let him back in, even just a little, he'll view you as weak and REALLY make you pay for it.

justinpaintoday posted 4/27/2014 15:24 PM

Klove: 2x4 No, not really. I think you acknowledged that there was a distinct change and remained skeptical. This is healthy. Not knowing exactly what to do immediately is not a bad thing. There is a ton of emotions. Even the numb ones are a part of who you are.

If your WH is sincere then great it may either provide the start of healing or some closure for you. But I think you are smart to remain very cautious. Although he may have had an emotional epiphany it is more likely the glow of his infidelity has worn off or she has left him.

Protect Klove first. Even if your M does not survive, if he is sincere perhaps civility is in your future.

Klove posted 4/27/2014 15:52 PM

The things is- I don't think I care about what deeply truly sorry looks like in a separation agreement. I don't really want to bargain here- I still want out. I don't really miss him.

I don't think he will give up thinking 50/50 is the best option for the kids and I won't give up my stance. Which I told him today. And it didn't change the trajectory of the conversation as it usually does.

I said I'm not going to stop moving forward with the procedures. He said neither was he. It wasn't mean- just clinical. I don't think either one of us imagine that we will end up with each other.

I still heard a lot of ME ME ME in his statements - which I told him. I feel so guilty which is very different from remorse.

It just all threw me for a loop. And I wonder if the OW left him - asked that and he said "no...she didn't dump me. I need to figure my giant piece of shit life out." But I do wonder if the reality of the infidelity has set in now that the entire neighbourhood knows we've split and why. And most people have told him to his face that what he did was wrong.

justinpaintoday posted 4/27/2014 16:13 PM

Might be on to something here. Regret and remorse are certainly different. I am sure he regrets many parts of the situation. ME ME ME is probably a good sign he hasn;t hit remorse. My WW regrets hurting me but never hit remorse. Still feels it was justified because we were in a slump. Trying to convince the morally bankrupt that there is a right and wrong in this sitiation can be exhausting.

I think realizing you do not want him back and accepting that within yourself is a good sign for you and your healing.

deena04 posted 4/27/2014 16:23 PM

Oh boy! Sending you strength; really don't know what to say, but sending you strength.

Nature_Girl posted 4/27/2014 16:35 PM

Hmmmm.... Let me think. He said a lot of this and a lot of that. He also said a lot of the other thing. Said a lot of pretty words. Hmmmm, did he actually DO anything? Do anything at all? Is he doing anything to back up the words?

So he did a lot of talking. And you stood there & took it all in.

ButterflyGirl posted 4/27/2014 16:54 PM

"I could have someone here if I really wanted her." alluding to OW. I asked if he had been talking to her- he said no.

OMG, fuck that noise. His ego needs some major deflating.

I think he's trying to suck you back into being option B.

If you were considering this, i would tell you he needs to give you all communications they have had recently. I did this (including his Word Feud chats, sneaky motherfucker..), and we retrieved data from his phone. Wish I hadn't now since I didn't need to know or see all that shit, but it did force me to realize I need to move on and he was a lost cause.

I'm glad you're not really considering this. It's way too soon to give him a chance anyway. And I think he's done and said WAY too much fucked up stuff.. Stay strong girl. And never be afraid to post. We all stumble, and we are not required to take the advice given to us. We just want to save you heartache.

Hugs..

Klove posted 4/27/2014 16:55 PM

Muaaahhhaaa. These pics crack me up.
That last one was DEFINITELY me...

But I guess my question is- what, if anything, should I be expecting him to actually DOOOOOO? I don't think I really want him to DO anything?

I am flounderrringgg here. I mean- I guess one COULD say he should give up what he wants for custody and see it my way- but would I give up what I want for custody if it were the other way around? No fucking way. Because I know what I want is best for the kids. I think he genuinely *thinks* his way is the best And- not that it would EVER BE the other way around...

I guess I will just maintain status quo- full speed ahead. And if he changes and adapts- he changes and adapts and maybe I'll like the changes and feel something and reconsider. If I have totally moved on - I won't reconsider! And if he doesn't change at all, nothing in the process has changed and I'm still doin' me. KWIM? Winning all around here.

I have a feeling I'll be on here before next Sunday telling you what an asshole he's been again. I sincerely hope this is NOT the case

It's hoovering and here's the thing about that: If you let him back in, even just a little, he'll view you as weak and REALLY make you pay for it.

Fuckety fuck fuck. Sniffy Mcfucktool has thrown me for a loop.
Grrrr

Catwoman posted 4/27/2014 16:56 PM

I would take a stance something like this: if this is true change on your part, you will put a great deal of effort into working to become a better person no matter what happens to the two of us. You will work to put our children first, no matter how inconvenient that may be to your personal life or your feelings about yourself. If you do these things, it is highly likely we will be able to have a healthy, balanced co-parenting relationship which will give our children a distinct advantage compared to those kids whose parents have difficult relationships.

Right now, I don't see us getting back together. But what I do see is an opportunity for you to take these revelations and do something that will ultimately benefit you and the children. Getting into counseling and building on this is a gift that will give you returns for many years to come.

This enables you to encourage the positive movement without promising him something you cannot deliver and by drawing boundaries around your feelings in cas this is transient, hoovering behavior.

Only time will tell on this one,

Cat

one2ndchance posted 4/27/2014 16:56 PM

I still want out. I don't really miss him.

I said I'm not going to stop moving forward with the procedures

No 2x4s necessary.

Once you start back on your healthy living regime tomorrow, you'll feel better, stronger and more in control.

Klove posted 4/27/2014 17:01 PM

Yes- I actually said "I am really impressed with this growth I am seeing in you - your IC is obviously really helping. This will serve you well when you are ready to have a healthy relationship with someone. I have no doubt that you will be happy again with someone else."

I THINK he knows that a boundary has been drawn.
I hope. I am just exposing my weakness to y'all.

Klove posted 4/27/2014 17:05 PM

P.S.
I forgot to tell you all I made up a theme song for SMIF.
Ahem- (to the tune of Sponge Bob Square pants...)

Whooooooo lives in a lie
With his head up his ARSE?
SNIFFY- MAC- FUCK- TOOL!

I clearly have too much time on my hands.

[This message edited by Klove at 5:06 PM, April 27th (Sunday)]

nowiknow23 posted 4/27/2014 17:08 PM

ButterflyGirl posted 4/27/2014 17:10 PM

I fought fought and fought some more for custody. I wish sometimes I could trust him with 50/50, but I don't. He has exactly what he should have, EOW, and I am the tie breaker for all important issues like medical, schooling, etc..

The sad part is he doesn't really want more visitation or custody, but he DID want to control me and make my life hell.

Don't back down on taking care of your kids. I think he's just saying he wants it because he knows you want it (and financial reasons with child support). Document ALL communications regarding the kids and always be willing to take them. Be the rock for them, the one that takes care of them. My judge saw it was only me looking out for their best interests. If you guys go to trial, you want that evidence..

deena posted 4/27/2014 17:36 PM

I agree totally with this being hoovering.
I also think that giving him a year to prove himself is an ok option if you do want to try.
But then you did say there were no feelings for him any more so.......

I think you were liking the attention. But I think the attention you crave is from the old WH that you knew. I fell for this a few times. And my WH tried again recently when I brought up separation again. But I truly have no feelings for him anymore and I don't trust him to fall for this again.

SBB posted 4/27/2014 18:06 PM

Klove, this is exactly how my own False R started - just the end of a spiral of not looking after myself.

He'll show his true colours again soon enough - I'm sit CG. Press him to agree to your S/D terms.

I too asked for a year long S - he was out the door the moment he realised I was serious when I applied for an apartment. If remorse is contingent upon R then is not remorse, it is Hoovering.

So far all you've had is some pretty words. I'll post my own Final S email exchange for you here so upon can see I've had the pretty words too. I stayed on the course and he went feral. He was always going to, I just saved myself a few years of False R. There is no venom in True Remorse.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=500928&HL=35229

Remember he has likely had a reality check via his L and is reeling ATM. Use it to your advantage.

Klove posted 4/27/2014 18:18 PM

No we have to wait a year in Canada. And I told him I'm not slowing down the process and going full steam ahead. Selling the house (or him buying me out), meeting with L, legal separation agreement, etc. If he still wants back after all that I'll know it's not really about his shit or avoiding this process.

Call me crazy- but I'm not going to say "if you want to get back together you'll agree to my custody terms." I think that is manipulative and what if it doesn't work out? I think he should decide that on his own and how much he fights will be a testament to his true colours. Fairly sure I can win on my own.