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Two weeks in, mood swings & a very defensive WW

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saveus posted 4/30/2014 00:46 AM

Well, here I am, two weeks, two days in (tonight). The last couple of weeks I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I know you all know.

I'm 38, married for 7 years to a wonderful woman who I love dearly (but to whom I undeniably haven't always shown it). We've been together for 15 years. My wife is 37. We have one amazing little boy of 5 who we both ADORE. He truly is the best thing that has happened to us, and has kept me (speaking only for myself) sane over the last five difficult years. He has no idea how much strength he gives me, nor how much he has helped me since my own dreadful D-Day.

I've done a lot of reading on this site since week one so I feel like I've taken a crash course in Surviving Infidelity. Not that I am an expert; I am just a beginner and struggling hugely with enormous ups and downs. But I do understand that the part where my WS 'crossed the line' is in no way my fault. What led up to it though, I take full responsibility for my share of. If this was meant as a huge kick up the backside, then it's worked. I knew what was wrong with our marriage - we both did - and we both failed miserably to do anything about it. In the almost two weeks since D-Day, the true meaning of the 180 has become clear, and I'm already taking the first tentative steps to improve ME, as I know that's all I have any control over. It's a battle though, with my constant mood swings and a WW I'm pretty sure you'd say is well and truly still in The Fog.

I feel like everything that preceded my wife's infidelity is now another life. Yes, it all feels tainted right now though I hope that will one day pass. But certainly Part 1 of our marriage. I look at pictures from only a couple of weeks ago and feel like everything's changed; everything I held dear and believed to be set in stone has been shown to have been no more than an illusion, and I don't know how I'm ever going to feel secure or trust my wife again.

I cannot deny that I've taken my wife for granted, that I've snubbed her affection and advances over petty niggles, that I've no more confronted our problems than she has. Coinciding almost exactly with our son's arrival, my work situation has been diabolical (losing a family business etc) and our finances have really suffered. I spent much of those years sleeping in the second bedroom. It's been a very bad time and I've felt like a poor provider, despite keeping a roof over our heads and the fact that my wife has always worked too and doesn't expect to be reliant on me (or any man - ironic seeing as just the other day she threw at me that the OM could pay off all her debts).

In amongst all this confusion and wretchedness, yes, I hope for R, I really do. It might sound perverse but I forgave my WW on Day 1 and knew I wanted to save our marriage. And I knew it could be so much better. Convincing her my motives aren't just the fear of the unknown and/or of messing up our son's life, that I do actually love her, is proving an enormous challenge and the legacy of years of taking each other for granted.

So, here's what happened.

On Monday 14th April, my wife admitted she'd slept with the dad of friends of our son (I now learn he's been married - or should I say divorced - three times) and that she'd been getting emotionally involved since Christmas. She told me that evening that she thought she might love him, and it was this that really stuck the knife in and twisted it. She said her plan was to get Easter out of the way and our little boy back to school and then confess to me the following week. I have to believe her as, in the end, my sixth sense finally kicked in and I forced her hand.

It was Friday 4th April. All I knew was my wife put our son into after-school club (which isn't that unusual though he usually only does this on a Wednesday) as she was going to a party with her best friend that evening, and staying out overnight. This isn't that uncommon either - I now feel a fool but I've always trusted her and 'let' her stay out on numerous occasions over the years. I can't say I've always been that happy about it, but truly never believed she would be unfaithful to me and believed it was my job to trust her. I even believed (and still do on some level, in the midst of all this pain) that it was OK for her to have male friends. I even defended her right to have male friends when the OM's ex started spreading gossip that something was going on between them, only very recently. I've 'let' my WW see some of her own exes on a couple of occasions. The bottom line is I had complete faith in her, and treated her the way I expected to be treated myself (though I never put my wife in those same situations).

I left work early to go get our son. I even chatted with the lady there about my WW's plans for the evening and how she'd been at home all day, chilling out and pampering herself a bit. What of course I didn't realise was that she was actually going to a work dinner (at a venue I wanted to take our little boy to and now feel sick about every time I go past) with the OM as his 'girlfriend', and staying at his overnight (his kids being with their mother).

I am still really struggling to get my head around this betrayal. She LIED to me for (I think it was from going through my text messages) eight days after telling me she was staying out that Friday. She has since claimed that 'it wasn't like that', that she didn't 'know' they were going to end up in bed together, and that - when I've (regrettably) resorted to crude language to really drive my point home - it wasn't some sordid affair. It was nice. She was falling for him. He treated her well and say kind things. It just 'kind of happened' and it actually did mean something. Yeah, right, I know what you're going to say.

They went back to his by taxi, sat on the sofa, had a drink (my WW's even claimed she doesn't remember all the details as she was drunk - again, yeah, right), starting kissing and ended up having - unsafe - sex. Just the once and then again in the morning when they woke up. He even made her breakfast (how lovely). All the while I was at home, getting our boy his breakfast before taking him out swimming (I had no idea what time she'd be back and - another symptom of our failing marriage - knew better than to ask). My wife came home early afternoon. I remember texting her from the changing rooms after our swim and sending her some funny pics of our boy wrapped up in his towel. She texted like everything was completely normal. I took our son out for his dinner, knowing I probably wouldn't see my wife that whole day as she was out again with friends that evening (she has told me that the OM wasn't there - at the same time as criticising me, with a little justification, for not bothering to come out that evening with her).

To add insult to injury, following this betrayal she proceeded to tell me not to take any time off work in the first week of Easter, that the business needed me (I was made redundant at Christmas and started a new business again within days, which is still struggling to get off the ground - she's used this as a justification for her infidelity, pinpointing my 'ignoring' her views on the subject when she said she didn't want me to start again) and that I should stay there and make us some money. I accepted this, then watched as she (and my son) spent most days with the OM and his kids. I know, I'm a complete fool. It was only the Wednesday when she 'announced' (she's very good at sudden announcements) that it wasn't only our son going for a sleepover at the OM's on Thursday evening, it was my wife too, that the vague thoughts in my head started to form into something more concrete. I made my uneasiness clear but fell far short from banning her from going - again, I've always trusted her (though as far as I know, she'd never stayed round a male friend's house overnight before) and, if I'm honest, we'd let our marriage reach such a low point any argument would have been futile. She wouldn't have understood, would've felt 'controlled' and done whatever she liked.

I barely slept that night. My sixth sense was really kicking in - I just didn't know at the time that it was already too late.

She has told me since D-Day that they did not sleep together that night, though they did kiss once the kids had gone to bed. To be honest, I'm struggling to believe this. The next day my son quite innocently remarked that the OM had slept on the floor next to my wife, who was on the lower bunk of one of the kids' bunk beds, and that the kids slept elsewhere. I genuinely didn't ask him ANYTHING - I wouldn't do that to a 5-year-old - so this took me aback. Something quite clearly wasn't right.

I confronted my WW about this and she denied there was anything wrong. It's all a bit of a blur now but I ended up determined to have a good weekend with my family, which we did. We really did. I was obviously in some kind of denial/protection mode, trying to act as if nothing was wrong. I also knew - and still do - that pushing my wife would get me nowhere. But come the Monday I couldn't focus on anything else. She knew on some level and after we put our son to bed, she disappeared into the bathroom until gone 9pm. When she finally came down, I forced her to face things and we had it out. No shouting, no arguing, and lots of tears (hers - at this point for some reason I couldn't cry, and I felt like there was something wrong with me until I did the next morning). She owned up and told me she'd slept with him, but it had just been the once (OK, now I know twice but I suppose you could say I'm being pedantic).

In the 2+ weeks since, we've talked and talked and there have been lots of tears (not enough though - right now I feel like I need to cry forever to get it all out, but the tears just won't come). The problem is I feel like it's been mostly me doing the talking. My wife is very good (as she's said so herself this past week) at burying her head in the sand and acting like nothing's wrong. This is what she says she did the day after, when I was at the swimming pool with my son. Since the weekend, anger but mostly frustration has kicked in (with me), mainly because I feel like she has been a closed book, answering the sordid details when asked (though I suspect not telling me everything) but refusing to let me in to her thoughts. Every now and again she'll throw in a 'I still don't know which way to go' or a 'our marriage was over long before I slept with him'. OK, this is in her most defensive moments so I'm left not knowing whether she's trying to rub salt in the wounds or really means these things. Over the weekend she even muttered something about my best friend, as if to imply something else had gone on between them (and implied there was now some problem between me and her sister, who is like a sister to me too). I obviously couldn't ignore these comments but, when pressed, she said she'd just been trying to hurt me. This is classic her - when she feels under attack the walls go up and she protects herself, any which way. And all the while she keeps saying she wants to go away on her own for a while (and I won't let her), despite the fact I've laid myself bare and made it clear that I need her here while I try to process all this.

The day after D-Day, she told her mum, face to face. She's since blamed me for 'making' her tell her mum, which I didn't, when I was seeing that as a positive step. The next day I allowed her to go see the OM one last time, to supposedly tell him it was over. I felt wretched and sick as I took my son out, just to get us out of the house (despite the business needing me, I was able to make some excuses in week 1 and avoid going in), and my wife didn't text me for over 2 hours, leaving me to worry what was going on/where she was/if she was ever coming back. When she did finally surface, she said she'd needed some time out and had gone for a drive. She also promised me that nothing had happened. She admitted she wasn't as forceful in what she said to the OM as I'd have liked, and he'd tried to convince her how they could live together and of all the things he'd be prepared to do (like driving our son to school every day).

The problem is, still to this day she defends him. 'Don't blame X, he's not a bad person', that kind of thing, and reminds me she misses him.

On Saturday I fully expected to come face to face with the OM, at the club where we all first met. I had no intention of confronting him (I don't think that's either of us) but it was going to be awkward, if that's not the understatement of the century. He didn't show (I don't remember the last time his kids weren't there, even if he wasn't). As my wife didn't come either, I couldn't help but worry but she assured me she was at home, on her own, and had no idea the OM wasn't going to be there. As she said she wanted some space, I kept our son occupied until late afternoon, when I arrived home to a mildly aggressive WW who then announced (here we go again) that she might stay out overnight (I knew she was going to see her sister to tell her what was going on though it did seem to turn into a normal girls night out, from my perspective). I flipped out. Not aggressive, but I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And, despite my best efforts at being strong I ended up pleading with her to see my point of view and to come home. Eventually (and very much out of character), she agreed but said not to wait up, she wasn't going to be rushed home early.

I felt wretched so text my mother-in-law (I know, against the 180) to ask if we could talk (to be fair, she and my wife have a slightly tempestuous relationship but I know she is on the side of our family, which we all should be). We ended up talking for three hours. And it helped. I was careful not to overly criticise my wife but her mum knows her and understands the frustrations I'm going through. She also made it clear they feel just as betrayed and that her dad, a lovely man with (in her mum's words) 'one point of view on everything', is hugely disappointed (and this is part of the reason my WW has started turning her own anger against her mother behind her back - she certainly doesn't want to confront what her dad thinks of what she's done). I've had no-one to talk to other than my wife (she's seen to that, though I have also realised once I've told my mum or my best friend, I can't take it back and frankly I don't want them seeing my wife in a bad light and/or offering me their well-intentioned 'advice'. What I decide to do has to be MY decision, without influence from well-meaning loved ones, but this has left me feeling very alone).

To be fair, my WW did send me a picture message of her and her sister at the very place she promised me she'd be. That was a minor breakthrough, for us, though this apparent 'transparency' hasn't lasted.

Last night we DID come face-to-face with the OM. The complication is the kids. His are lovely, and my wife says she loves them (this from someone who usually tells everyone she doesn't like other people's kids). Our boy was understandably excited to see them, having not seen them for two weeks after quite an intense period of seeing them all the time. My wife's reaction was worrying. On the face of it, she didn't want to punish the children. But I'm sure if I hadn't have been there, she'd have been chatting with the OM like there was nothing wrong. Instead, I made my point and she stayed with me (but was very off/cold with me). It was only when I spotted her exchanging a few words with the OM (apparently, he said, 'are you OK?', and she replied something like, 'not really') that I found myself confronting him. Again, not in an aggressive way. I even waited until his son wandered off (after an awkward 30 seconds) before telling him 'I think we both know who the better man is' and not to speak to my wife again. She told me on the way home that he had text her to say what I'd said (she says this was his first text in two weeks) and implied I'd done it in front of the kids (not true). I feel conflicted over what I did. It didn't get me much satisfaction and I showed him that I am hurt/defensive but, at least, I did confront him and didn't let myself down.

So, where are we now? She can't understand my mood swings and says that I'm messing with her mind by being nice to her for a whole day and then wanting to vent my frustrations at night. She only wants to talk when she wants to talk (though I've not given that much concern). The other night I woke up and 3.30 and those mind movies started playing over and over in my head. My WW just got annoyed at me for being restless so I ended up walking the streets for an hour at 4am. I found myself at the church where we got married, yet still the tears were coming but just wouldn't flow.

She point blank refuses my efforts at demanding transparency. Her iPhone is well and truly off limits (and PIN-protected) and, as she keeps telling me, 'I've deleted everything anyway' (again, this could just be her fight-or-flight response doing the talking). She swears on our son's life that she's had no contact at all from the OM since D-Day (except that text last night), nor has she tried to contact him. I have no access to her Facebook (though apparently he's not on it) or emails or anything. She refuses to even contemplate MC/IC.

I know how all this sounds. I get it. And I can't flog a dead horse forever. But I know my wife. She is the most stubborn, pig-headed person in the world when she feels under attack. And I have attacked her in the last few days (out of sheer frustration). I've let myself down. I even threw the phone against the wall at one point, that's how much this is getting to me. I'm not proud of it. But I do believe underneath it all, she does love me. I almost believe (in my more confident moments) that we'll get through this and a lot of what my WW's said during this period of coping will be shown for what it is - if not game playing then certainly 'attack is the first line of defence'. This is partly why she refuses MC - for someone who apparently doesn't care what anybody else thinks, she sure is touchy about being blamed or told she is a bad person (not that either would happen there).

The other night, before we went to bed, she said she would try harder this week to sort herself out. And, to be fair, there were signs, until last night derailed progress. I just feel like we're wasting valuable healing time. At the same time, I don't want to push her.

Last week I saw my best friend (a fairly rare thing these days - entirely my fault) and her reaction was interesting (not that I was playing games, just putting myself first). He lives in the middle of nowhere and there's very little signal. Knowing this, I said bye to my wife properly (I didn't just leave the house as I may have done before) and even texted her on the way to his house. But when I got home I had a text from her saying, 'I know you're ignoring me and that's fine, I get it'. The very next morning her first words were, 'Did you tell him?'. I didn't.

One last thing, bizarrely in week 1 I felt closer to my wife than in the last several years, both emotionally and physically. We did not make love (and still haven't - one demand I have had is we both get checked out for STDs, which she has agreed to but is yet to do) but our physical closeness was better than it has been in a long time. But for her - on a rare moment of getting her to open up about her feelings - it was messing with her mind, making her deal with her guilt (which she does say she has) over what she's done to me. So I've told her I will respect her space, keep talking but not initiate anything (which I failed at a couple of nights later). I don't know if that is healthy or not right now. I just love her and want to be with her. She says she can't understand why I don't feel repulsed by her, and that she's struggling to deal with what she did and needs to before we can get any closer. I understand but I don't see a lot of evidence of her dealing with anything.

I don't know which way to turn, and I'm sorry this is a bit of a monster post, but it has really helped taking the time to write it down. I just know that I love my wife with a passion, and feel so messed up trying to deal with how SHE is dealing with this mess. She's said some very hurtful things when feeling under attack, as recently as last night, yet a couple of days ago text me to say she can't think clearly with me about, that it 'reminds me of the guilt and makes me feel vulnerable so my barriers go up!'. She added that she loves me and that 'it sickens me all the hurt and upset this is causing you! It's really hard for me to deal with '.

I've just had two reasonable days (or maybe one-and-a-half) but last night has really set me back. I've only slept for four hours (again). I woke up from a nightmare about her leaving me for the OM. It wasn't so much seeing the guy as my wife's reaction to it. We bickered all the way home (with our son in the back - I deeply regret this), tried to talk when we got in but, from my perspective, didn't get very far.

This would be so easier if I didn't love my wife, didn't want to protect my family, and could just walk away. But I can't. I want us to not only survive this, but learn from our mistakes and this awful experience and put our marriage right.

saveus posted 4/30/2014 02:39 AM

I couldn't sleep. Ended up finding out how to read deleted messages on my WW's iPhone. It's worse than I dreaded . I've asked her to take our boy to school and am expecting her back in around half an hour. I've pleaded with her to THINK and to come clean about everything - I don't want to have to present her with evidence Any advice???????? I'm devastated. Again. I guess this is my D-Day 2

stronger08 posted 4/30/2014 02:48 AM

Brother, that's a long, sad story. And to be honest, it also stinks of bullshit. First off you need to stop being so damn receptive to blame. You claim you understand that the A is 100% her fault. And while that is true, you taking on way too much of her baggage my man. You are 50% responsible for the condition of the M. That it, 50% !!!! Also keep in mind that she had choices here. If the M was so bad she could have asked for MC, she could have mentioned to you that she was not happy, shit she even could have filed for a D. All choices she had available that were more noble than doing what she did. But no, she goes out and cheats. Not only does she cheat, she does it with the father of your child's friend. She lies, hides, sneaks around, sleeps with OM and when she gets caught she blames you. Wake up pal !!!! This is not a remorseful woman, If you want any chance of happiness, with or without her you must stand up for yourself now. If she wants the OM so much, let him have her. She needs to be shown some damn reality. She has her head so far up the OM's ass she is licking his tonsils. Show this unremorseful cheat what life is going to be like without you in it. Cut her loose and give her nothing. No support financial or emotional, nothing my man. If she has the child, then you must support the kid, but that's it. If the child stays with you don't give her a damn penny. Matter of fact insist she give you CS.

Bottom line here is that you must hold her responsible for her actions. She must endure the consequences of her behaviors. Stop accepting blame in any way shape or form. Stand up and fight like a man. Expose this A for the foulness it is. Stop letting her dictate policy, after ball she is the one who has caused the damage. Make her live with her decisions and remember that she should be kissing your ass for another chance, not the other way around. Insert some reality into this fantasy life she and OM live in. I suggest you read up on the 180 in the healing library. Employ it, live it and heal. Good luck to you my man.

tfkeel posted 4/30/2014 03:24 AM

I must agree with stronger08 on this. You are accepting way too much blame here.

Like stronger08 said, she had OPTIONS. If the marriage was bad, she could have gone to counseling, called a pastor, tried to talk to you about it, and yes, even filed for a divorce. And all of those choices, like stronger said, would have been more upright, moral, and nobler than having an affair.

All those would have been RESPECTFUL and not have demonstrated a depraved indifference to your and your children's welfare, like the affair did.

Your wife has her head up her ass. Until she gets it out, and starts to OWN her actions, becomes completely transparent with you, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that you can have any decent marriage in reconciliation.

just the other day she threw at me that the OM could pay off all her debts

Well, guess what ? By God, let him do it. See, a man can have a wife and a girl friend, but not two wives.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 3:26 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Badhurt posted 4/30/2014 03:25 AM

Well, there is no sense in telling you all these overnights make no sense and you have let her run circles around you. Unfortunately you will not have much success I am afraid as long as you continue to try to "nice her back" with kindness and adoration, which is in abundance in your post along with the hurt. You need to also stop accepting the and for anything regarding her sleeping with this OM. And if he is still texting her he also has no respect for you.
Your so. Is important BUT you cannot let her use him to continue on with this affair because you are so intent with his well being. Millions of children survive divorce and wind up ok.
Since she will not go to therapy, and not sure if you can afford it, you have in my opinion only two clear cut choices :
(1) continue to be Mr nice guy and get run over
(2) make her realize how serious this is and see a lawyer about filing for D. You do not have to go through with it, but she needs to know that there are going to be serious and permanent consequences to her behavior. Right now you pleading with her is not the case.
The worst possible outcome is she will leave you for OM. Guess what, that has already happened for the most part and she has you going in circles. If you are not happy right now only you can do something about it. And the transparency thing is only your first DEMAND that you shod be making , not a request.
I woe skip a lot of the 180 stuff. That only works where there is some remorse shown. You need to move to Plan B quick.
Sorry for being harsh but you have tried the nice way and you are overwhelmed and getting nowhere .
Good luck

mike7 posted 4/30/2014 03:31 AM

honestly friend, like they have said, you can't "nice" her back. You can't reason with her.

The best thing you can do is confront her with the evidence that she is lying to you and then throw her out.

if you "discuss" it, she will say that it's your fault she is lying because you drove her to it.

If you want to save your marriage, you have to be counter intuitive. You can't be a nice guy because she is in blame mode.

Toss her ass out. Seriously. The only successful BHs I've seen, are one's who stood up for themselves immediately, and acted with self respect. Seriously.. all the other's have lost their wives. So if you want to save her, you have to in no uncertain terms tell her she has crossed a line and you don't want her. Chuck her out. Make her contemplate life without you or your boy.

If YOU throw HER out, then you can say it is HER fault. She crossed a line you can't tolerate. If you beg and plead, you allow her to blame you.

By acting with self respect, she will respect you, even if she doesn't like it, she will respect you.

At this stage, you absolutely have to force her to respect you. if she doesn't, you're lost. your marriage will be lost.

best of luck.

[This message edited by mike7 at 4:13 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

allatsea posted 4/30/2014 05:13 AM

She is not demonstrating any guilt, regret or remorse. It's all your fault, in her mind. She refuses to discuss it and is totally dispassionate to your pain.
She cannot see that having OM around (even if it's under the pretense of the children being together) is not acceptable. She is forcing you to eat a shit sandwich and then moans at you when you say you don't like the taste.

Stop eating her shit

[This message edited by allatsea at 5:13 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

MeanBean posted 4/30/2014 05:48 AM

Saveus, I'm going to be blunt and hit you with a 2
x4 over your head but its tough love. Hopefully it will snap you out of it.

You are too soft. Stop acting like a passive B@#ch and take a stand for yourself. You think your confrontation was adequate but I have to say that the other man was most likely laughing at you in his head. You cant be "honorable" to another man who is screwing your wife. The OM is saying in his head that he is the better man because he is taking your wife and your just standing by doing nothing.

You wife is comfortable in knowing that your passivity will let her do what she wants. She takes you for granted and sees your feelings as a joke. Your understanding and blame sharing are your worst enemy. Your giving her a millions excuses for her behavior.


numb&dumb posted 4/30/2014 10:11 AM


I am sorry for what you are going through right now. Trust me most of us have and really understand how painful it is.

I wouldn't wish this on my own worst enemy.

Right now, your W is calling all the shots and is benefiting from having two men want her. Although truth be told I think OM just wants the physical relationship and/or help with childcare and would dump her like a bag of rocks if he "had," her along with her bulls not.

She has made any moves because quite frankly she doesn't have to. She will string this along as long as she can and feel like everything revolves around her.

I know you mentioned the 180, but ti deosn't appear to be working. Clearly she is concerned if you "ignore" her.

My advice, and this comes from my own personal experiences along with helping other guys in your sitch, File for D.

Until this situation shows her what she has to lose, she isn't going to do anything. She is just enjoying the drama and the fact two men are "fighting" for her. Stop fightinng, tell her that OM can have her. She has shown who she truly is and it is ugly. Sure she will throw you a cracker now and then to keep you alive, but man I have to tell you emotionally this is killing you.

1. She is still lying to you.
2. She is still in contact with OM and probably still sleeping with him.
3. She has more or less told you that she intends to keep "finding her happiness" albeit at your expense.

Tough love is the only thing that is going to help. Expose her sordid little "Secret."

If this was such a great thing why keep so secret ?

It is going to hurt, but a D won't cost you as much as living like this. It is also not the first time a WW was snapped back into reality by a "D" filing.

While you can be clear that is not what you want, you have to protect yourself from her emotional abuse.

AND yes it is abuse to openly flaunt her A in your face while M.

D her and tell her she is free to see whoever she wants, but she will no longer be able to use you as her backup plan and her babysitter.

To her, right now, that is what you are.

I now that sounds a little blunt, but I see so many guys take this path and I can tell you I yet to see one of these end in a good way.

If you like books, read, "No more Mr. Nice Guy." Google it, it is on Amazon.

No one is going to stand up for yourself for you and while there are M issues that does not give her the right to start a new relationship before the one she was in ended.

My guess the M difficulties are not anyway near 100% your fault. without knowing you I bet there is a laundry list of things she wasn't doing to help your M. Kicking you out the M bedroom after your son was born is at the top of the list.

She expects you lie down and take this. While at times in the past she may have liked that, women do not respect doormats, ever. She will always treat you like this until you draw a line in the sand and demand the respect you deserve.

Again, don't think I am not sorry for what you are going through. I have walked that path and I know how bad it hurts, but in times like this you have to soldier on through the pain and make sure you make it out alive. Nothing else I've said is as important as that. Find your rational self and focus on that when the pain comes. Find a plan on getting out of this horrible situation. If you don't is almost guaranteed you will be hurt again.

yearsofpain25 posted 4/30/2014 11:17 AM

Hi saveus. Welcome to SI. I don't have much else additionally to say than the other's above haven't said already. I want you to go back and read them again.

I'm so very sorry that you find yourself here. This is a heartbreaking tragic story that you have spelled out here. People above have been suggesting the 180. The 180 is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

You need to get stronger my friend and hold her responsible for her actions. She must endure the consequences of her behaviors.


Jduff posted 4/30/2014 12:12 PM


You say the OM is three times divorced. Is this really a "man"? He is likely a serial cheater and your WW is his newest victim. Unfortunately, your WW won't be convinced of this because she has some very serious personal issues which likely led to the A in the first place. Just get a clear picture of who you are up against. Like you said yourself, you are the better man.

There is no nicing her back. Please stop this. You are being gaslighted in the worst way. She is seeing you up for cake eating torture. I also agree with filing D in this instance, but get all your ducks in the row first, like legal counsel on your rights as a father, setup new bank accounts and move cash into them, setup family and friend support for you and your son, appointment to change door locks if she leaves the home, research costs for local daycare centers or after school care for your son, everything you need to cover to live as a single father.

[This message edited by Jduff at 12:13 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

gutfeeling posted 4/30/2014 12:48 PM

180 time. Your wife shows no remorse. She is blame shifting (to you).

You deserve better.

tushnurse posted 4/30/2014 13:33 PM

Holy Hell man. Reading your entire first post I saw through so much bullshit I can still smell it.

Seriously, as you said you found through the texts it's much worse than she led you to believe, I hope you now realize that ANYTHING that comes out of her mouth can't be believed. She is happily getting the best of both worlds. Time to stop that shit cold and hard.

Pull up your breeches, and sit her down and lay it out. IT ENDS NOW. I GET TOTAL ACCESS TO PHONES, EMAILS, AND WHATEVER ELSE I WANT. YOU STOP ALL CONTACT WITH THIS OTHER JOKER TODAY, NOW. ....OR you pack your bags, and go stay with mom.

YOU have to do this. She is so deep in the fog, and you are bearing the brunt of it. You and your son deserve better. See a lawyer, go get tested yourself, and start protecting yourself.

CantSeeInTheDark posted 4/30/2014 14:54 PM

Hey saveus

So sorry you've had to join a site like this. Life beyond sucks sometime.

I too found more things out with more investigating. It's heart breaking.

Stop listening to her blame you. It's true what the others say, having an affair, lying, deceiving and lying again is all HER choice.

Read about 180 and The Fog. Read them more than once, they do make sense.

Keep posting saveus, there's always someone here who will hear you

saveus posted 5/1/2014 01:23 AM

To everyone, thank you for the replies. I really appreciate all the help for a complete stranger. And I get all the tough love though I admit to being slightly taken aback over what seemed like a heap load of negativity on first reading (but I do get it, honestly I do). Is there no room for R in my case? Really? Before you answer that, you'd better read on.

Yesterday was D-Day 2.

It is absolutely clear to me that my wife is SO lost in the Fog that, as things stand, there is precisely ZERO chance of R.

She didn't exactly come clean yesterday until she thought I'd seen everything anyway. Then she admitted there HAD been contact in the last two weeks and - worse still - she'd had sex with the OM on Saturday night (the day you may remember she announced she might stay out all night). She did go out with her sister, send me that pic of the two of them, then the OM texted saying 'come round, I need to see you', so she did. Then she came home to me, sat downstairs for an hour - she says she was going to tell me - came upstairs, got in bed with me and did wake me up. I was pleased she had though I was fast asleep (a rarity these days) and all I remember is her saying was something about selling something on eBay.

Oh, and the texts I tortured myself reading yesterday revealed a much longer EA/PA than she confessed to on D-Day 1. I haven't yet managed to put dates to 99% of them but it's clear that from early on this year they were 'sexting', and that there had had sex on multiple occasions.

When I confronted my WW with this, she tried to move the goalposts by saying things like, 'I said it had been going on a while', or 'I did say, what does it matter if it was once or a dozen times??'. This was a recurrent theme yesterday - trying to make out like I was mis-remembering things. This is why I'm glad now I wrote my first epic post here, to make sure I'm not going mad.

She did try to explain herself by claiming to be 'obsessed' with the OM, as if she couldn't/can't help herself.

My WW even had the gall to say I had 'destroyed' things (I presume she meant trust) by snooping

One 'positive' though - she now thinks I have access to all her messages though I'm well aware she could just go and get a cheap PAYG phone to carry on the A.

I gave her an ultimatum yesterday. I told her I wasn't having her sleeping under this roof last night unless she committed to me 100% and to all my demands re transparency/NC etc. She cried and said she wants to be with me, that it's becoming clear what she feels for the OM may not be 'love' and that, in any case, she knows it's completely different to the love WE have (i.e. REAL love, including all life's crap like paying the mortgage/cleaning the bathroom). She said she IS committed to me and our marriage/family, so she stayed.

I am going to organise MC today (if I get a chance - I work with both my parents, who know nothing about all this) and make her go with me.

She is unkeen on the idea of an NC letter but, don't worry, it's non-negotiable as far as I am concerned. We'll deal with that tonight.

We are both going to get ourselves checked for STDs on Wednesday. Oh, and she did a pregnancy test yesterday (negative, thank God). I had previously insisted on this and, at least, she had ordered some online, which I didn't know about.

Realising the extent of the lies upon lies and the gaslighting going on, this morning (she gets up early for work and was back in this morning after a few days off) I confronted her about her lies and the need for ABSOLUTE transparency. Anything less and and she's telling me all I need to know. I let her know that she HAS to come clean about anything and everything, even stuff going back before 2014 that she thinks I can never find out about. She might actually do this (though I hope she is not lying when she says there is nothing else before the last four months) as she now believes I have access to all her deleted texts, and has no idea how far back.

I also plan on re-reading the 180 and possibly seeing my doc about my own mental well-being (I'm often only sleeping 4 hours a night and am struggling to focus). After yesterday's revelations, I didn't eat a thing all day (well, one chocolate bar) and my appetite has once again completely vanished.

I will confess to a closeness yesterday which I didn't expect. I know this is my/our emotions playing tricks on us but we ended up being intimate in bed last night. I know. Yet I don't regret it. You're going to tell me this is wrong, aren't you?

Re filing for divorce, does anyone know or have an opinion on applying this advice in the UK? I COMPLETELY get the need to shove her off the fence and see the logic behind this, but am obviously scared to go down this road. If I wasn't the wronged party here, I'd love to be able to leave as I know that would REALLY shock her. But I'm going nowhere.

I know, I'm being a doormat and my WW is never going to respect me in my current state.

Thanks again - I'll try to reply to earlier individual comments later in the day.

allatsea posted 5/1/2014 02:02 AM

There is some good behaviors you can hang onto but I can still see that her actions are all of the following:

Paying lip service
Done because she feels she has no choice
Done because she thinks you have access to her text history
She's letting you do all the work to repair the relationship.
Humoring you to keep you attached and from doing anything hasty

I can't see any real contrition or efforts on her side. She hasn't had the dawning realisation as to what she's done to you.

I picture her giving a big sigh of "aren't-you-over-it-yet-?" every time you want to discuss the hurt you feel, or when you ask for details, or when you feel angry.

I hope I'm wrong

Remember, she should be fighting for you. You're the prize. Not the other way around.

[This message edited by allatsea at 2:03 AM, May 1st (Thursday)]

adriana1980 posted 5/1/2014 02:17 AM

I apologize if I'm too straight forward but a wife, who can play her husband for a fool, will never respect him as a man. And this is exactly what your wife has been doing with absolutely no consequences. It's clear that she has no elementary respect for you any more. MC, at this time, is just a waste of money and time.

As for her OM.... are you going to let him screw your wife whenever he wants? I'm a peaceful woman who reads poetry on fairly regular bases but if I were you, I wouldn't leave it like this. The level of passivity, you have been displaying so far, is truly alarming. Your wife is simply choosing a strong, alpha man, who isn't afraid to take what he wants, over her passive, beta husband.

Again, I apologize if I was too direct.

knockeddown posted 5/1/2014 02:25 AM

Two things to remember (and especially pay attention to #2:

1) People here have the valuable perspective of being able to identify the signs of rugsweeping vs. remorse.

2) It is EXTREMELY common for people to interpret their emotions as facts. Your love for her does not make it factual that your relationship will survive. You have to do what is effective (which may mean acting opposite to your emotional urges).

You have two choices, my friend. Gently... you can choose to go with your emotions right now and be a doormat to her abusive behavior or you can begin to gain your strength and practice the 180. Check out the book "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson.

As your name implies, you have come here for advice on how to save your relationship. Listen to the wisdom that seeps out of every one of these posts. Even though it hurts.


mike7 posted 5/1/2014 02:50 AM

you have to remember, the negativity is not directed at you. Most men love their wives and trust them. When they are confronted with their wive's infidelity, the instinct is to beg, plead, and reason the person whom we love.

the problem is, that is the exact worst thing to do. Our wives at this point have already chosen another man. So when we cry, and plead, we look weak, particularly in comparison to the OM who just laughs and bangs them.

it's a perception. A man who acts like he doesn't need you, must really be a catch, so the wive's try harder to please them.

And the husband who is begging and pleading, appears to be someone who isn't that special. After all, if he was that special, why would he need to beg and cry.

Get it? It's a shit sandwich. The best thing you can do is chuck her out. Let her know you're not the kind of man who puts up with a wife walking all over him.

It's unfortunate it has to be this way. But believe me, it does. Once your wife spread her legs for another man, you have to demonstrate your dominance. if you don't, you're going to lose her.

best of luck.

saveus posted 5/1/2014 05:26 AM

Thanks everyone. I know the negativity isn't aimed at me. I just want to R with my wife yet know it's looking impossible. She's flatly refusing transparency ('I won't live like that') and MC ('I'm not talking to anyone'). We haven't even got onto the NC letter yet but I have a feeling that will go the same way.

Oh, and I saw she had a new text from the OM this morning. I even told her. She then deleted it before I could see it. She said it was just more of the same 'I love you' stuff she's been getting over recent days - I tried to get it through to her that THAT ISN'T THE POINT!!!!!

I know, I know what I've got to do.

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